Contingency planning : When Ange is sacked, who should replace him?

[billyiddo]

Do you geninely believe anyone comes to this forum with that mindset? I don't. Perhaps it'd be a little kinder if people would take a second to clarify their critcisms if they keep hitting a raw nerve?

Not really tbf (despite my deleted post if you saw it) no more so than they come here with the intention to 'actively go out of their way to misconstrue someone's point' in general - which was being aimed at me, so what's good for the goose...

 

[Mikey10]

The shorts and socks is bad.
But, why the F does poch need two pairs of Sunnies?!

In ancient Egypt, those in government would wear two sun visors if they were about to change their governmental position. It was a signal to the general population that there would soon be a significant alteration in their standing. They would also wear longer socks if the signal was that they were returning to a job that they previously held.

All of which means that Ange will be sacked tomorrow and Poch will be our manager by next Monday at the latest.

 

[billyiddo]

Being trolled by the site adverts now

 

[Baleforce]

In ancient Egypt, those in government would wear two sun visors if they were about to change their governmental position. It was a signal to the general population that there would soon be a significant alteration in their standing. They would also wear longer socks if the signal was that they were returning to a job that they previously held.

All of which means that Ange will be sacked tomorrow and Poch will be our manager by next Monday at the latest.

From “mate” to maté

 

[glasgowspur]

Funnily, I think some of Ange's most strident critics take personal offence at anyone who dares to suggest he might've done some good things during his time here. Strange times on GG and in the world generally.
Given that I don't believe anyone believes he will be here beyond the start of pre-season for the 2025/26 season, I wish it could all be less fractious. Still, as Billy Bob Thornton said in Bad Santa, "Wish in one hand..."

It feels to me that anyone not criticising, throwing out playground insults or generally bad mouthing our manager is deemed to be supporting him.
Very strange.

 

[glasgowspur]

In ancient Egypt, those in government would wear two sun visors if they were about to change their governmental position. It was a signal to the general population that there would soon be a significant alteration in their standing. They would also wear longer socks if the signal was that they were returning to a job that they previously held.

All of which means that Ange will be sacked tomorrow and Poch will be our manager by next Monday at the latest.

Seems pharaoh enough to me.

 

[Surfless]

if we are to make a change I would move mountains to get Emery. The rest are all aspiring to be as successful as he has been.

 

[Baleforce]

It feels to me that anyone not criticising, throwing out playground insults or generally bad mouthing our manager is deemed to be supporting him.
Very strange.

If you are not part of the solution…

 

[Gutter Boy]

Funnily, I think some of Ange's most strident critics take personal offence at anyone who dares to suggest he might've done some good things during his time here. Strange times on GG and in the world generally.
Given that I don't believe anyone believes he will be here beyond the start of pre-season for the 2025/26 season, I wish it could all be less fractious. Still, as Billy Bob Thornton said in Bad Santa, "Wish in one hand..."

I remember both those good performances - Arsenal and Liverpool in autumn 2023 - fondly. There was the Villa match in the spring too i guess

 

[Raziel]

if we are to make a change I would move mountains to get Emery. The rest are all aspiring to be as successful as he has been.

Villa are 9th mate, with a -4 GD and below Fulham

Emery is a good manager but it's a textbook example of the difference in scrutiny you get in a club like Villa (not a small club) vs. Spurs. The current media narrative is Villa is doing ok/good, outside of the CL run, it's a really brick season for them, this was a kick on season and with us, United & Chelsea floundering for much of season, they should be a lot higher.

And they spend, so budget isn't an excuse ..

 

[Muttley]

Funnily, I think some of Ange's most strident critics take personal offence at anyone who dares to suggest he might've done some good things during his time here. Strange times on GG and in the world generally.

I assume you can acknowledge the opposite happens right? The staunch Ange supporters take offence (on his behalf) when there is any constructive criticism of him. It is equally frustrating as the way round you talk about.

From what I read, the Ange out phalanx say most of what they say with the club's best interests at heart. Ange hasn't earned their respect. It is incredibly important in life to earn respect, not just assume it because of position.

 

[Muttley]

Genuinely...have you not been watching lately??? Do you remember Brenford away just last month? Are you telling me that's the same style that we've seen in every other match? Everton away where he tried something different and massively failed? Emirates Marketing Project away where we did them on the counter attack and won 4-0? Emirates Marketing Project at home last season where he drastically changed the formation?

It sounds to me like you watched literally the first game in pre-season, made up your mind, listened to the "we never change" comments and Jamie Redknapp/Gary Neville punditry and have since ignored all of the evidence in front of you that show...no, we absolutely do not play like that every week.

The philosophy remains the same: try to win the ball up the pitch, overload teams, take risks. But the way the team does that from week to week absolutely varies and that people cannot see it by now absolutely baffles me.

Quite clearly it hasn't worked properly. But not working != not changing.

I'll tell you what I'm seeing:

- defences still holding lines as high as possible (e.g. half way line) and playing for offside in most instances
- all centre mids on the press at the same time, without one of them holding
- a set of players not equipped to play a high press because they can't retain possession well enough. It comes straight back at them.
- full-backs still doing most of their work on the inside rather than the outside
- the wide forwards spending barely any time defending on the inside, tucking in narrow to make us compact

What I also see is a lot of jogging, not running from the players. They are trying to play a way that demands high intensity at medium intensity. There is no differentiator anymore, implying that the players aren't fully engaged in their manager tactics.

Brentford, you are talking about a game that was 7 weeks ago at the end of the injury/fatigue cycle. It was 2 weeks later (Utd) when we had the first time we finally had quite a stacked squad. That was perhaps the only game that I saw that I started to see something that would give me hope of a new gear, albeit against a poor side. There has been absolutely no consistency since. That is my biggest question mark on these tactics. In my mind Ange should find consistency first (e.g. Poch) and then refine as appropriate.

Perhaps you can tell me what refinements you're seeing from Ange in this period. Are there genuinely enough and are they genuinely big enough deltas to prove what I said in my earlier post? Unfortunately, a few tweaks and outlier games like Brentford don't wash with me. Brentford for me was more akin to City cup second half. It can happen, but never regularly under Ange over 20 months in charge.

I think it is more likely Ange would like to go back to his Day 1 tactical system. He doesn't want to come the other direction at all. He still thinks his system is the best one, and some fans are good with that. As I said above, I'm not one.

 

[Daisuk]

if we are to make a change I would move mountains to get Emery. The rest are all aspiring to be as successful as he has been.

We're just not going to hire a former gooner after a season like this, and you know that if we did, he'd have fans on his back even before starting pre-season. The media would be all over it and snap at any sign of weakness in every game, run the old rivalry failed at scum no-one makes it at Tottenham story, and he'd be gone by x-mas. Next!

 

[Bishop]

Genuinely...have you not been watching lately??? Do you remember Brenford away just last month? Are you telling me that's the same style that we've seen in every other match? Everton away where he tried something different and massively failed? Emirates Marketing Project away where we did them on the counter attack and won 4-0? Emirates Marketing Project at home last season where he drastically changed the formation?

It sounds to me like you watched literally the first game in pre-season, made up your mind, listened to the "we never change" comments and Jamie Redknapp/Gary Neville punditry and have since ignored all of the evidence in front of you that show...no, we absolutely do not play like that every week.

The philosophy remains the same: try to win the ball up the pitch, overload teams, take risks. But the way the team does that from week to week absolutely varies and that people cannot see it by now absolutely baffles me.

Quite clearly it hasn't worked properly. But not working != not changing.

What are we saying happened at Brentford? They were the better team and had the chances to win the game. They didn't take them and we gritted a performance out (a good thing and the first time I've seen it) but it was hardly a night and day tactical change. Honestly if Brentford had their shooting boots on it would have just been another deserved loss.

I think we always shown fight and willingness under Ange, a lack of desire is not something I would accuse his team of. It's just usually that fight and determination is a little too late to rescue a match we've already fudged up.

 

[Raziel]

What are we saying happened at Brentford? They were the better team and had the chances to win the game. They didn't take them and we gritted a performance out (a good thing and the first time I've seen it) but it was hardly a night and day tactical change. Honestly if Brentford had their shooting boots on it would have just been another deserved loss.

I think we always shown fight and willingness under Ange, a lack of desire is not something I would accuse his team of. It's just usually that fight and determination is a little too late to rescue a match we've already fudged up.

But that's the problem

- To win, we have to have more fight and more run in us than the opposite team (statistically backed up)

This is purely a tactic fudge up

- Against Ipswich, Fulham, Leicester, Bournemouth, Everton, etc. we have a better team, the system simply needs to allow the better players to make the difference.
- Somehow we have a system that negates the quality advantage and makes it a "who can run the hardest" battle which isn't beneficial.

I really hope the club isn't blind to the fact that caveats aside, this model/system doesn't have enough upside to keep.

 

[thfcsteff]

I assume you can acknowledge the opposite happens right? The staunch Ange supporters take offence (on his behalf) when there is any constructive criticism of him. It is equally frustrating as the way round you talk about.

From what I read, the Ange out phalanx say most of what they say with the club's best interests at heart. Ange hasn't earned their respect. It is incredibly important in life to earn respect, not just assume it because of position.

Of course.
Everyone is getting ultra-defensive. It's grating.

 

[thfcsteff]

I remember both those good performances - Arsenal and Liverpool in autumn 2023 - fondly. There was the Villa match in the spring too i guess

And you've made my point for me.

 

[thfcsteff]

It feels to me that anyone not criticising, throwing out playground insults or generally bad mouthing our manager is deemed to be supporting him.
Very strange.

This. I think the state of the world has contributed to this seemingly strident polarization. I suppose we're all part of it to a degree. Personally, whenever anyone gets what I feel is OTT and unnecessary/extreme levels of criticism, my natural instinct is to swerve away from that. Sissoko was a fine example. Was he the greatest? No. Was he the worst ever? Absolutely not. Did he deserve some of the rubbish said about him? Absolutely note. He was not a playmaker, just as Postecoglu is not a Poch or Guardiola...to your point, his time to leave has certainly arrived, however ignoring the mitigating circumstances behind this poor season, or blaming him for those too, is too far for me personally...