Carlyle takeover, was Cain Hoy takeover

[Yiddo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Why are people talking as if this take over is going to happen? didn't our main men deny these reports?

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Why are people talking as if this take over is going to happen? didn't our main men deny these reports?

Not exactly. Both Cain Hoy and Tottenham have made announcements that comply with the City code on takeovers and mergers - precisely because Cain Hoy are in the process of weighing up a bid for Spurs.

Spurs have, additionally, said that they are not currently in discussion with any party about a possible takeover of the club and that they are focused on both the season ahead and progressing the stadium project. But that doesn't mean that they won't soon be in discussion with Cain Hoy about a possible takeover. It certainly doesn't mean that Spurs have said that they have no interest in such discussions, as some have claimed. Cain Hoy have to make a decision, as whether or not they will bid, by October 10th.

So it's entirely understandable that people are discussing this story. It's a story that could have huge implications for our future, whatever the eventual outcome.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I'm sure some sports journalists are lazy and when they get the call to submit their 500 word 'masterpiece' (column filler) just spout out anything that comes to mind while slumped at the end of a bar.......at least make an effort to a> know what's going on, b> what has been going on c>an educated guess on what's likely to be going on...........Tony Evans The Times, yesterday.........



Tony Evans
Last updated at 12:01AM, September 15 2014

Why would anyone sell a Premier League club right now? And why would anyone spend money on a new stadium? To understand what’s happening at Tottenham Hotspur, these questions need to be answered.
This week, there have been reports that Spurs are up for sale. The price? A ludicrous £1 billion. Almost at the same time, the seemingly endless saga of the new stadium took another twist. The club announced another delay to the construction and claimed they may have to move out of White Hart Lane for a season while building takes place on the site.
Making sense of all this is not easy. Yet events in north London illustrate the changing financial nature of the sport and its relationship with the local community.
Tottenham is for sale, without question. The club has been since ENIC International, the investment company owned by Joe Lewis, the billionaire, took control in 2001. The plan was to sell within three years. The deadline is a decade overdue.
One of the main reasons a sale has failed to materialise is White Hart Lane. The grand old dame at the end of the High Road is one of the most evocative venues in the sport. Its copper ****erel is one of the defining images of the English game and has watched over some momentous moments and teams.
History will not save the Lane, though. Just like it never saved Highbury, the younger and grander rival at the other end of the Seven Sisters Road. More than a decade ago, Arsenal moved from their traditional home to the Emirates Stadium. The driving force was money.
It was justified. Now, Arsenal’s matchday revenue is almost triple Tottenham’s. The 60,000 capacity at the Emirates and the plethora of corporate entertainment areas mean Arsenal’s matchday income for 2012-13 was £93 million while Spurs, with a 36,000 full house, generated £33 million.
The financial landscape has changed since Highbury was abandoned. Television deals have grown to levels that were unimaginable in 1997 when Arsenal began to explore a move. Matchday income is becoming an increasingly smaller proportion of a club’s overall revenue and Arsenal’s has plateaued. The next domestic TV deal, due in 2016, could well treble the present £5.5 billion package. If Arsenal had known that the small-screen cash would mushroom in this manner, they might have stayed at Highbury and saved the £350 million construction costs.
The massive increase in revenue due in two years means that this would be the wrong time to sell Tottenham. However, White Hart Lane lacks some of the advantages that Highbury had. Unlike Islington, with its excellent transport links and upwardly mobile location, Tottenham feels like a football outpost and the rundown atmosphere of the area hints at deep social problems that were reflected in the riots of 2011.
In football financial terms, the gulf in matchday income between Arsenal and Tottenham could be narrowed considerably in five years’ time if, say, Spurs finish a couple of places above their rivals in the league and particularly if they secure a Champions League place at the expense of their neighbours.
Yet one of the reasons that ENIC has failed to sell is that potential buyers are put off by the location. A new stadium would give the local economy a boost, provide extra infrastructure and create jobs.
The problem is, as a potential seller, Lewis does not want to pay for ground upgrades. Haringey Council can see the benefits it would bring but don’t want to spend money on the project and will not finalise planning permission until they have assurances that it is not just the club that will benefit. Boris Johnson wants a shiny new ground but the mayor of London doesn’t want to put a hand in his pocket either. Senior government figures were happy to tout Tottenham around the Arab world but Whitehall, like all the other interested parties, is unwilling to pay for the necessary improvement in the area.
So it crawls along, with Spurs casting around for £150 million in naming rights cash for an unbuilt ground. No sale, no stadium.
It is not the job of any club to regenerate the districts around them. Yet by engaging, reinvigorating and enriching the communities they reside in, clubs can increase their attractiveness and value. Like too many in the game, Tottenham appear not to have grasped this. They have tried, like with the Stratford plan, to get others to pick up their tab. So no sale and no stadium, at least in the short term — and it would be surprising to see one without the other.

 

[NWND]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Not exactly. Both Cain Hoy and Tottenham have made announcements that comply with the City code on takeovers and mergers - precisely because Cain Hoy are in the process of weighing up a bid for Spurs.

Spurs have, additionally, said that they are not currently in discussion with any party about a possible takeover of the club and that they are focused on both the season ahead and progressing the stadium project. But that doesn't mean that they won't soon be in discussion with Cain Hoy about a possible takeover. It certainly doesn't mean that Spurs have said that they have no interest in such discussions, as some have claimed. Cain Hoy have to make a decision, as whether or not they will bid, by October 10th.

So it's entirely understandable that people are discussing this story. It's a story that could have huge implications for our future, whatever the eventual outcome.

I'd also point out that THFC admitted in the statement that they'd been in discussions with Cain Hoy, but claimed this was about stadium financing. What i'd say to this is why would Cain Hoy agree to provide stadium financing if there wasn't at least a stake in the longer-term benefits of this for themselves. I think this is Dragon's Den on a massive scale.

Levy & Lewis are in the Den... I'd present to you our product, THFC. We've developed them from a mid-table outfit to a club that consistently qualifies for the Europa League and has a top-class training facility and youth academy. We regularly attract crowds of 36,000, but to really compete at the top we need a bigger stadium and more exposure, particularly in the USA and Asian developing markets. We need Champions League football.

Unfortunately, we've hit some problems with the stadium, with aquiring land, financing the build and naming rights. We've taken the club a long way, but are struggling now as Daniel's wife is ill and he spends a lot of time in America looking after her. Joe isn't getting any younger and would prefer to take more of a back-seat over things.

We;d have liked to have had the stadium done by now so we could leave the running of the club to others, but unfortunately the latest set-back with the CPO has meant we need help. We're looking to the dragons to provide funding for the further development of THFC including the financiing and management of the stadium build, in exchange for a stake in the club.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I'm sure some sports journalists are lazy and when they get the call to submit their 500 word 'masterpiece' (column filler) just spout out anything that comes to mind while slumped at the end of a bar.......at least make an effort to a> know what's going on, b> what has been going on c>an educated guess on what's likely to be going on...........Tony Evans The Times, yesterday.........



Tony Evans
Last updated at 12:01AM, September 15 2014

Why would anyone sell a Premier League club right now? And why would anyone spend money on a new stadium? To understand what’s happening at Tottenham Hotspur, these questions need to be answered.
This week, there have been reports that Spurs are up for sale. The price? A ludicrous £1 billion. Almost at the same time, the seemingly endless saga of the new stadium took another twist. The club announced another delay to the construction and claimed they may have to move out of White Hart Lane for a season while building takes place on the site.
Making sense of all this is not easy. Yet events in north London illustrate the changing financial nature of the sport and its relationship with the local community.
Tottenham is for sale, without question. The club has been since ENIC International, the investment company owned by Joe Lewis, the billionaire, took control in 2001. The plan was to sell within three years. The deadline is a decade overdue.
One of the main reasons a sale has failed to materialise is White Hart Lane. The grand old dame at the end of the High Road is one of the most evocative venues in the sport. Its copper ****erel is one of the defining images of the English game and has watched over some momentous moments and teams.
History will not save the Lane, though. Just like it never saved Highbury, the younger and grander rival at the other end of the Seven Sisters Road. More than a decade ago, Arsenal moved from their traditional home to the Emirates Stadium. The driving force was money.
It was justified. Now, Arsenal’s matchday revenue is almost triple Tottenham’s. The 60,000 capacity at the Emirates and the plethora of corporate entertainment areas mean Arsenal’s matchday income for 2012-13 was £93 million while Spurs, with a 36,000 full house, generated £33 million.
The financial landscape has changed since Highbury was abandoned. Television deals have grown to levels that were unimaginable in 1997 when Arsenal began to explore a move. Matchday income is becoming an increasingly smaller proportion of a club’s overall revenue and Arsenal’s has plateaued. The next domestic TV deal, due in 2016, could well treble the present £5.5 billion package. If Arsenal had known that the small-screen cash would mushroom in this manner, they might have stayed at Highbury and saved the £350 million construction costs.
The massive increase in revenue due in two years means that this would be the wrong time to sell Tottenham. However, White Hart Lane lacks some of the advantages that Highbury had. Unlike Islington, with its excellent transport links and upwardly mobile location, Tottenham feels like a football outpost and the rundown atmosphere of the area hints at deep social problems that were reflected in the riots of 2011.
In football financial terms, the gulf in matchday income between Arsenal and Tottenham could be narrowed considerably in five years’ time if, say, Spurs finish a couple of places above their rivals in the league and particularly if they secure a Champions League place at the expense of their neighbours.
Yet one of the reasons that ENIC has failed to sell is that potential buyers are put off by the location. A new stadium would give the local economy a boost, provide extra infrastructure and create jobs.
The problem is, as a potential seller, Lewis does not want to pay for ground upgrades. Haringey Council can see the benefits it would bring but don’t want to spend money on the project and will not finalise planning permission until they have assurances that it is not just the club that will benefit. Boris Johnson wants a shiny new ground but the mayor of London doesn’t want to put a hand in his pocket either. Senior government figures were happy to tout Tottenham around the Arab world but Whitehall, like all the other interested parties, is unwilling to pay for the necessary improvement in the area.
So it crawls along, with Spurs casting around for £150 million in naming rights cash for an unbuilt ground. No sale, no stadium.
It is not the job of any club to regenerate the districts around them. Yet by engaging, reinvigorating and enriching the communities they reside in, clubs can increase their attractiveness and value. Like too many in the game, Tottenham appear not to have grasped this. They have tried, like with the Stratford plan, to get others to pick up their tab. So no sale and no stadium, at least in the short term — and it would be surprising to see one without the other.

Yeah - that's very poor considering the S106 stuff was all sorted more than a year ago

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I'd also point out that THFC admitted in the statement that they'd been in discussions with Cain Hoy, but claimed this was about stadium financing. What i'd say to this is why would Cain Hoy agree to provide stadium financing if there wasn't at least a stake in the longer-term benefits of this for themselves. I think this is Dragon's Den on a massive scale.

Levy & Lewis are in the Den... I'd present to you our product, THFC. We've developed them from a mid-table outfit to a club that consistently qualifies for the Europa League and has a top-class training facility and youth academy. We regularly attract crowds of 36,000, but to really compete at the top we need a bigger stadium and more exposure, particularly in the USA and Asian developing markets. We need Champions League football.

Unfortunately, we've hit some problems with the stadium, with aquiring land, financing the build and naming rights. We've taken the club a long way, but are struggling now as Daniel's wife is ill and he spends a lot of time in America looking after her. Joe isn't getting any younger and would prefer to take more of a back-seat over things.

We;d have liked to have had the stadium done by now so we could leave the running of the club to others, but unfortunately the latest set-back with the CPO has meant we need help. We're looking to the dragons to provide funding for the further development of THFC including the financiing and management of the stadium build, in exchange for a stake in the club.

This is where the story falls down though. No-one can help with the set back of the CPO but the courts. (unless you're suggesting an investment request will include 25M to get archway to f*ck off).

The price difference between a club with the full green light for a stadium build and one that is still stuck in legal wrangles is too great and too uncertain. We have put too much getting to the stage we have to let someone else have the club at a discount and for them to take the final step. Conversely any buyer would not want to pay over the top while a future defining decision (no matter how likely they'll rule in our favour) is still hanging over the club. It would be impossible to calculate this risk and put a price on it.

We're just in a little period of limbo, waiting for the wheels of justice to do their thing. That's why the whole takeover talk is just a journo story (or PR for Cain Hoy). It makes no sense for ENIC to sell now. Why make all the effort to get us to the moon only for Cain Hoy to step out onto it.

In the D Den they would ask you to come back once the CPO is granted and the green light has been given.......even if that is still before a brick has been laid.

 

[LesMedley]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I'd also point out that THFC admitted in the statement that they'd been in discussions with Cain Hoy, but claimed this was about stadium financing. What i'd say to this is why would Cain Hoy agree to provide stadium financing if there wasn't at least a stake in the longer-term benefits of this for themselves. I think this is Dragon's Den on a massive scale.

Levy & Lewis are in the Den... I'd present to you our product, THFC. We've developed them from a mid-table outfit to a club that consistently qualifies for the Europa League and has a top-class training facility and youth academy. We regularly attract crowds of 36,000, but to really compete at the top we need a bigger stadium and more exposure, particularly in the USA and Asian developing markets. We need Champions League football.

Unfortunately, we've hit some problems with the stadium, with aquiring land, financing the build and naming rights. We've taken the club a long way, but are struggling now as Daniel's wife is ill and he spends a lot of time in America looking after her. Joe isn't getting any younger and would prefer to take more of a back-seat over things.

We;d have liked to have had the stadium done by now so we could leave the running of the club to others, but unfortunately the latest set-back with the CPO has meant we need help. We're looking to the dragons to provide funding for the further development of THFC including the financiing and management of the stadium build, in exchange for a stake in the club.

There is a difference between providing equity finance for a business and making a takeover bid. The Dragon's Den analogy is a poor one in my view. I don't think that Tottenham Hotspur Ltd is a company that needs to bring in expertise, as a Dragon's Den contestant might. When they need expertise they buy it in. What they need is finance for a major development. The cheapest finance is equity finance, so shares may be issued which would dilute Enic's holding, but unless they sell out completely, and now is not the time to do it, because the sale price would not be maximized in current conditions, then Enic would want to retain control, to continue with the long-term plan they have in place.
As far as I can see, the only way that Enic will sell up at the moment is if Cain Hoy put in a silly bid, and they don't appear the sort of people who would do that. I suspect there are two possible reasons for Cain Hoy's sudden appearnce on the scene; one is to promote themselves giving themselves an immediate public profile, and the other is an opportunist attempt to see if Enic are sick of the whole NDP situation, which I would think is wishful thinking.

 

[NWND]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

This is where the story falls down though. No-one can help with the set back of the CPO but the courts. (unless you're suggesting an investment request will include 25M to get archway to f*ck off).

The price difference between a club with the full green light for a stadium build and one that is still stuck in legal wrangles is too great and too uncertain. We have put too much getting to the stage we have to let someone else have the club at a discount and for them to take the final step. Conversely any buyer would not want to pay over the top while a future defining decision (no matter how likely they'll rule in our favour) is still hanging over the club. It would be impossible to calculate this risk and put a price on it.

We're just in a little period of limbo, waiting for the wheels of justice to do their thing. That's why the whole takeover talk is just a journo story (or PR for Cain Hoy). It makes no sense for ENIC to sell now. Why make all the effort to get us to the moon only for Cain Hoy to step out onto it.

In the D Den they would ask you to come back once the CPO is granted and the green light has been given.......even if that is still before a brick has been laid.

I wasn't suggesting that they'd help with the timescales, but more that the additional set back in terms of timescales has meant Levy & Lewis are possibly willing to at the very least find an investor who will have a more hands-on approach to running the club and the stadium build and leave Lewis to his yaught and Levy to his wife.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

This is where the story falls down though. No-one can help with the set back of the CPO but the courts. (unless you're suggesting an investment request will include 25M to get archway to f*ck off).

The price difference between a club with the full green light for a stadium build and one that is still stuck in legal wrangles is too great and too uncertain. We have put too much getting to the stage we have to let someone else have the club at a discount and for them to take the final step. Conversely any buyer would not want to pay over the top while a future defining decision (no matter how likely they'll rule in our favour) is still hanging over the club. It would be impossible to calculate this risk and put a price on it.

We're just in a little period of limbo, waiting for the wheels of justice to do their thing. That's why the whole takeover talk is just a journo story (or PR for Cain Hoy). It makes no sense for ENIC to sell now. Why make all the effort to get us to the moon only for Cain Hoy to step out onto it.

In the D Den they would ask you to come back once the CPO is granted and the green light has been given.......even if that is still before a brick has been laid.

I'm not sure that that is necessarily so.

Cain Hoy might well be confident that all stadium issues could easily be resolved. If they're taking a medium to long term view of their potential investment, it's perfectly conceivable that they can see a big growth in value even if they do pay over the odds now (and paying over the odds now is the only way that they're going to persuade Levy and Lewis to sell).

 

[Bullet]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I'm sure some sports journalists are lazy and when they get the call to submit their 500 word 'masterpiece' (column filler) just spout out anything that comes to mind

Of course they are lazy, they are humans being paid to do something, why would they bother to try harder? The editor says "I need 500 words on Geoff Grimsdell at Accrington Stanley" and the writer says "hmm, OK boss" and goes and trots out 500 words in an hour and bangs them in, job done.

 

[LesMedley]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

As a matter of interest, I have just received in the post, as a Tottenham Hotspur Ltd shareholder, formal notifications of what was on Tottenhamhotspur.com about this matter, including clarification from the London Stock Exchange as to why Cain Hoy had to make a formal announcement to the Stock exchange of an interest in buying more than 1% of Tottenham Hotspur Ltd shares (Rule 8.1,2,3 and 4), having made a public announcement to that effect, and why Tottenham Hotspur Ltd had to make a response to the Stock exchange of the number of shares currently issued. It also mentions that Cain Hoy's responsibilities also apply to anyone acting in concert with them, but no other parties are mentioned, which suggests to me that Cain Hoy are flying a kite.

Effectively, in my view, the Stock Exchange is issuing an instruction to Cain Hoy to put up or shut up.

 

[Robbo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

One thing is for certain; if this investment fund (or any other investment fund) actually buys Spurs, they will turn out to be a ruthless fund that will suck the money out of the club and leave us in a sad state of affairs in a few years time. It's Spurs after all. We excel in worst case scenarios.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Why are people talking as if this take over is going to happen? didn't our main men deny these reports?

Of course they are going to deny the reports.
If they come out and say we're trying to sell the club they will not benefit in any way.
If the sale doesn't go through then the fans will be forever on their backs about how they wanted to sell up that time. And the future price of the club will go down because they'll be seen as a more willing seller now.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

One thing is for certain; if this investment fund (or any other investment fund) actually buys Spurs, they will turn out to be a ruthless fund that will suck the money out of the club and leave us in a sad state of affairs in a few years time. It's Spurs after all. We excel in worst case scenarios.

It's not just Spurs, 95% of these type of things turn out for the worse.

Investors aren't philanthropists. They just smell a way of squeezing some more money out of the club. Higher prices and selling assets.

Hearts is the worst case scenario, but Chelsea would be just as bad.

 

[Dicko]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

It's not just Spurs, 95% of these type of things turn out for the worse.

Investors aren't philanthropists. They just smell a way of squeezing some more money out of the club. Higher prices and selling assets.

Hearts is the worst case scenario, but Chelsea would be just as bad.

Have they still got that crazy Lithuanian owner that loves to sack managers?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Of course they are lazy, they are humans being paid to do something, why would they bother to try harder? The editor says "I need 500 words on Geoff Grimsdell at Accrington Stanley" and the writer says "hmm, OK boss" and goes and trots out 500 words in an hour and bangs them in, job done.

Maybe because they're at the sh*t and slowest end of modern media and quality writing is their only USP. Most people cannot wait for anything these days. If you have to wait and it's still sh*t, then best of luck as you fall of the edge.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I'm not sure that that is necessarily so.

Cain Hoy might well be confident that all stadium issues could easily be resolved. If they're taking a medium to long term view of their potential investment, it's perfectly conceivable that they can see a big growth in value even if they do pay over the odds now (and paying over the odds now is the only way that they're going to persuade Levy and Lewis to sell).

If you are going to pay over the odds anyway to persuade ENIC to sell, an unresolved planning issue may as well be resolved before initiating the takeover. Being confident is never good enough (unless massively priced in) when doing risk analysis/due diligence on a deal this size.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

One thing is for certain; if this investment fund (or any other investment fund) actually buys Spurs, they will turn out to be a ruthless fund that will suck the money out of the club and leave us in a sad state of affairs in a few years time. It's Spurs after all. We excel in worst case scenarios.

If you are going to spend a 1 billion on a football club that only has a yearly revenue of 147m (that made a profit of 1.5m last year and a loss of 4.3m the year before) you are not gonna get your billion back through yearly profits. The only way you are gonna make something from it is holding on to it long term and selling when its in a better state.

The club will be worth a a lot more than billion in 10 years if it has a new stadium and CL football. The way to get there is not through sucking money out of the club.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

If you are going to spend a 1 billion on a football club that only has a yearly revenue of 147m (that made a profit of 1.5m last year and a loss of 4.3m the year before) you are not gonna get your billion back through yearly profits. The only way you are gonna make something from it is holding on to it long term and selling when its in a better state.

The club will be worth a a lot more than billion in 10 years if it has a new stadium and CL football. The way to get there is not through sucking money out of the club.

Im pretty sure any new owner would have the best intentions - as you say the money involved means they'd have to.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

If you are going to pay over the odds anyway to persuade ENIC to sell, an unresolved planning issue may as well be resolved before initiating the takeover. Being confident is never good enough (unless massively priced in) when doing risk analysis/due diligence on a deal this size.

Indeed.

But there's no reason why an agreement couldn't be reached with Archway before a deal with ENIC is signed.