milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
And that was after several unsuccessful attempts to float elsewhere
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Carlyle takeover, was Cain Hoy takeover
- Thread starter Superhudd
- Start date
Superhudd
Simon Davies
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
But it made over 100m in profit last year. How much did Tottenham lose?
But it made over 100m in profit last year. How much did Tottenham lose?
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
If there was a thirst for football club shares on the Stock Exchange, you would see more clubs floating. But you're actually seeing the opposite. Clubs delisting.
As to Man Utd, having looked it up now, it seems that they didn't go through with plans to float on the Singapore SE. They listed on the New York Stock Exchange instead, in August 2012. Prior to that, they hadn't been a public company for seven years. And since the Glazers (100% owners) were already effectively taking £60m per annum out of the club, they would presumably have had no need to pay themselves a dividend as well.
P.S. Man Utd's NYSE offering was apparently ignored by most proper investors on the basis that they would get little return and insignificant voting rights. If it hadn't been for their huge numbers of fans, it would have been a big flop.
If there was a thirst for football club shares on the Stock Exchange, you would see more clubs floating. But you're actually seeing the opposite. Clubs delisting.
As to Man Utd, having looked it up now, it seems that they didn't go through with plans to float on the Singapore SE. They listed on the New York Stock Exchange instead, in August 2012. Prior to that, they hadn't been a public company for seven years. And since the Glazers (100% owners) were already effectively taking £60m per annum out of the club, they would presumably have had no need to pay themselves a dividend as well.
P.S. Man Utd's NYSE offering was apparently ignored by most proper investors on the basis that they would get little return and insignificant voting rights. If it hadn't been for their huge numbers of fans, it would have been a big flop.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
Absolutely.
I was wrong about Singapore (silly me for not following Man Utd closely enough!). They tried and failed to float there. Tried and failed to float in Hong Kong.
Absolutely.
I was wrong about Singapore (silly me for not following Man Utd closely enough!). They tried and failed to float there. Tried and failed to float in Hong Kong.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
Will it continue to make those kind of profits long enough for that investment to pay off?
A football club is a steady stream of cash coming in as long as you don't **** around too much with it.
Will it continue to make those kind of profits long enough for that investment to pay off?
A football club is a steady stream of cash coming in as long as you don't **** around too much with it.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
While it's quite right that we shouldn't get overexcited about Cain Hoy, it's equally true to say that we shouldn't be too negative about them either. We simply don't know enough about them yet.
We can't assume that they won't invest in the club any more than we can assume that they will. Of course it's highly unlikely that they would embark on Abramovich or Mansour level spending sprees, even if FFP didn't exist. But fund the stadium in its entirety? Who knows? Not completely out of the question, if they have the financial muscle. It could make perfect financial sense for them.
While it's quite right that we shouldn't get overexcited about Cain Hoy, it's equally true to say that we shouldn't be too negative about them either. We simply don't know enough about them yet.
We can't assume that they won't invest in the club any more than we can assume that they will. Of course it's highly unlikely that they would embark on Abramovich or Mansour level spending sprees, even if FFP didn't exist. But fund the stadium in its entirety? Who knows? Not completely out of the question, if they have the financial muscle. It could make perfect financial sense for them.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
More than fringe benefits!
They raised £150m.
£75m went straight into the Glazers' pockets. The remaining £75m went towards reducing the huge amount of debt that the Glazers piled on Man Utd.
More than fringe benefits!
They raised £150m.
£75m went straight into the Glazers' pockets. The remaining £75m went towards reducing the huge amount of debt that the Glazers piled on Man Utd.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
It may a steady revenue stream, but historically has been a **** investment, cost of doing business is too high
Very few clubs (globally) over the last 10 years could say they make 50M+ in profit per year, which at the cost of entry and the risk (someone has to lose) makes them a poor investment.
The reason you are seeing US based companies now interested is based in the future potential income of tv rights, football clubs ticket and merchandise sales have gone by small % points each year, tv rights is the thing that will potentially lead to 2X/3X/4X revenue increases over time.
It may a steady revenue stream, but historically has been a **** investment, cost of doing business is too high
Very few clubs (globally) over the last 10 years could say they make 50M+ in profit per year, which at the cost of entry and the risk (someone has to lose) makes them a poor investment.
The reason you are seeing US based companies now interested is based in the future potential income of tv rights, football clubs ticket and merchandise sales have gone by small % points each year, tv rights is the thing that will potentially lead to 2X/3X/4X revenue increases over time.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
Historically, football club buyers have been idiots, or just old fashioned romantics, which is pretty much the same. Throw some money at it, get success, be a hero. Completely ignoring the dozens of others trying to do the exact same thing. It's become a 'get rich quick' scheme sadly. From small time crooks and money launderers in the lower leagues to equally immoral and corrupt people getting filthy rich by doing very little at the top clubs.
I do think tv rights the way it works today is a bubble that could burst soon. The tv market is completely saturated with channels and content, but overall viewership is dropping.
Very few have any interest beyond either watching the big games/teams or following their team. Too many also rans with no apparent aim or ambition, too many games that are just a bit ****. The current model won't last. How long depends on just how profitable the rights are for Sky ATM. I can't see them growing their customer base much more and further increases in price could force more people into cancelling their subscription. Those based in other continents and funny timezones would certainly welcome a decent streaming service.
My guess is that the numbers from those countries that have legit streaming services are being closely looked at to see how much is potentially there. Releasing the internet flood gates will eat into what they're currently getting from subscription tv channels, but overall it could mean more money. The only way I see income increasing substantially now is if internet streaming becomes ridiculously lucrative.
Historically, football club buyers have been idiots, or just old fashioned romantics, which is pretty much the same. Throw some money at it, get success, be a hero. Completely ignoring the dozens of others trying to do the exact same thing. It's become a 'get rich quick' scheme sadly. From small time crooks and money launderers in the lower leagues to equally immoral and corrupt people getting filthy rich by doing very little at the top clubs.
I do think tv rights the way it works today is a bubble that could burst soon. The tv market is completely saturated with channels and content, but overall viewership is dropping.
Very few have any interest beyond either watching the big games/teams or following their team. Too many also rans with no apparent aim or ambition, too many games that are just a bit ****. The current model won't last. How long depends on just how profitable the rights are for Sky ATM. I can't see them growing their customer base much more and further increases in price could force more people into cancelling their subscription. Those based in other continents and funny timezones would certainly welcome a decent streaming service.
My guess is that the numbers from those countries that have legit streaming services are being closely looked at to see how much is potentially there. Releasing the internet flood gates will eat into what they're currently getting from subscription tv channels, but overall it could mean more money. The only way I see income increasing substantially now is if internet streaming becomes ridiculously lucrative.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
International tv rights, hasn't evn been close to being tapped.
Look at American sports to understand what the potential for tv rights really is.
International tv rights, hasn't evn been close to being tapped.
Look at American sports to understand what the potential for tv rights really is.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
Yep same with mobile phone operators, though this coffee shop thing has me stumped still keeps growing.
Yep same with mobile phone operators, though this coffee shop thing has me stumped still keeps growing.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
Besides the US I don't see that much room for growth. The Asian market isn't nearly as lucrative as the number of "fans" might suggest, Africa the same. The big European nations have their own leagues and South Americans probably look more towards Spain and Portugal. It's the 3 English speaking nations, Australia, Canada and USA that have most to give financially, but the time difference means less viewers.
In Norway they coughed up around £100 million for 3 seasons I think. They only got that much because it was a different channel than previously that wanted in. They were trying to become Sky, but have since lost most of the Norwegian league packages. They were at least smart enough to offer a pure PL package to their viewers, you didn't have to pay extra for channels you didn't need (don't know if that's still the case) and they have a very good streaming service, but do they make enough to pay significantly more next time? I don't think so.
Besides the US I don't see that much room for growth. The Asian market isn't nearly as lucrative as the number of "fans" might suggest, Africa the same. The big European nations have their own leagues and South Americans probably look more towards Spain and Portugal. It's the 3 English speaking nations, Australia, Canada and USA that have most to give financially, but the time difference means less viewers.
In Norway they coughed up around £100 million for 3 seasons I think. They only got that much because it was a different channel than previously that wanted in. They were trying to become Sky, but have since lost most of the Norwegian league packages. They were at least smart enough to offer a pure PL package to their viewers, you didn't have to pay extra for channels you didn't need (don't know if that's still the case) and they have a very good streaming service, but do they make enough to pay significantly more next time? I don't think so.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
GTA 5 has made over 2 billion since it has come out last year.
With the proper resources behind a new version (the game is still a buggy unfinished mess as far as I'm concerned) they can bring in that kind of money. Mindcraft is so popular it is the current younger generation's version of Pokemon.
The current game only cost £15 on the PC ffs. The company's aim up to now was never to milk cash from it.
GTA 5 has made over 2 billion since it has come out last year.
With the proper resources behind a new version (the game is still a buggy unfinished mess as far as I'm concerned) they can bring in that kind of money. Mindcraft is so popular it is the current younger generation's version of Pokemon.
The current game only cost £15 on the PC ffs. The company's aim up to now was never to milk cash from it.
Craig_J
Eidur Gudjohnsen
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
Don't want to turn a Tottenham takeover thread into a gaming thread but from what I've seen minecraft is a pile of **** where you are handed a pile of **** and challenged to polish it. I just hope Cain Hoy view us much the same and polish us a lot whilst adding some trophy's to polish as well.
Don't want to turn a Tottenham takeover thread into a gaming thread but from what I've seen minecraft is a pile of **** where you are handed a pile of **** and challenged to polish it. I just hope Cain Hoy view us much the same and polish us a lot whilst adding some trophy's to polish as well.
Crab.C.Nesbitt
Gheorge Popescu
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
But the success of the investment lies in capital growth not revenue income. Would enic, mike Ashley, or the FSG (Liverpool) or the liebharr ? (Southampton) family make a substantial profit if hey sold their clubs this year? Quite probably would be my guess.
But the success of the investment lies in capital growth not revenue income. Would enic, mike Ashley, or the FSG (Liverpool) or the liebharr ? (Southampton) family make a substantial profit if hey sold their clubs this year? Quite probably would be my guess.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
ENIC - yes
FSG - Yes
Liebherr - possible
Mike cashley - Not a fookin' hope in Hell, the amount he has pumped in to that club behind the scenes he'll never see.
ENIC - yes
FSG - Yes
Liebherr - possible
Mike cashley - Not a fookin' hope in Hell, the amount he has pumped in to that club behind the scenes he'll never see.
Re: Cain Hoy takeover
I dunno.
Certainly, he'd be unlikely to make a profit if he sold now. As you say, he inherited a lot of debt and has had to pump a lot of money into the club - something which Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans never seem to have given him credit for, as far as I can tell. But then, he got the club on the cheap because of the debts.
Saudi Sportswashing Machine is potentially a very big club - as it was in the Keegan and Bobby Robson days. It's a one club city with a big catchment area, full of passionate fans. When successful, Saudi Sportswashing Machine could easily attract 60K to every home game. Even when not successful, they attract 50K to every game.
So it's not a huge leap to imagine that they could get themselves back up to our level. Certainly, they aren't currently punching their weight financially - which means that there is plenty of potential for growth.
Ashley's total investment in Saudi Sportswashing Machine is a little under £300m, I believe. If they were ever to become moderately successful again, it's quite possible that he could eventually make a decent profit.
I dunno.
Certainly, he'd be unlikely to make a profit if he sold now. As you say, he inherited a lot of debt and has had to pump a lot of money into the club - something which Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans never seem to have given him credit for, as far as I can tell. But then, he got the club on the cheap because of the debts.
Saudi Sportswashing Machine is potentially a very big club - as it was in the Keegan and Bobby Robson days. It's a one club city with a big catchment area, full of passionate fans. When successful, Saudi Sportswashing Machine could easily attract 60K to every home game. Even when not successful, they attract 50K to every game.
So it's not a huge leap to imagine that they could get themselves back up to our level. Certainly, they aren't currently punching their weight financially - which means that there is plenty of potential for growth.
Ashley's total investment in Saudi Sportswashing Machine is a little under £300m, I believe. If they were ever to become moderately successful again, it's quite possible that he could eventually make a decent profit.