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Bundesliga Bonestroker Thread

Yiddo said:
Every team at some point have a bad start to a season and they are twice the team we are and would be regulars in the top 4 in England.
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i disagree. i think they're roughly at our level tbh. if we were in germany, i think theres every chance we could have won a title over the past few years. they may have/had goetze, kagawa, reus, lewandowski etc, but dont forget we've had some genuine world beaters too in the past few years. and i have no doubt that we been a winning a squad, guys like lennon would be better regarded. the problem is, the casual football fans thinks "your're good if youre winning, and bad if youre not". therefore guys like lennon didnt get to build their confidence from being part of a winning team through their careers.

in my opinion there are a lot of average players in that dortmund squad that wouldnt get into our 25. and someone like Błaszczykowski is no better than lennon in his prime. just like dortmund i think we are one of the best teams in europe (probably top 10, if not, definitely top 15). the only difference being that we dont get to show it because there are usually 4 genuinely elite teams in the premier league. if we were in the bundesliga, i suspect we would have enjoyed many deep runs in the champions league like we did in 10/11.

if dortmund were in england, long term they would probably be in a fight with us, arsenal and lpool for a place in the top 4. and i suspect their current squad would fall just short.
 
Tenth league defeat in 17 games for Dortmund. They're only one point above bottom team Freiburg, who have a game in hand.
 
NWND said:
They also lost to another team in the bottom 3. Too good to go down? Doesn't look that way.
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There's definitely at least one person on these shores who is very happy about Dortmond's current malaise...

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milo said:
Klopp has stayed there too long. Most of the best managers now days move on after three or so seasons.
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Then it comes down to a short term motivation thing, not really a philosophy or system of play init.

Also sometimes with the right players things just click...
 
metalgear said:
Then it comes down to a short term motivation thing, not really a philosophy or system of play init.

Also sometimes with the right players things just click...
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Not necessarily. I think that there is a risk of players getting used to the same voice or getting complacent but also, the longer you stay in the job the greater the chance of something going wrong on your watch.

Klopp's system is not a million miles away from what Poch is trying to do with us. As we have seen, a high effort, pressing team can be very effective when everyone is on song but it only takes a few players to have an off day and the system becomes ineffective.
 
I think Klopp is a victim of his own success, the expectations were (rightly and understandably) raised by a few seasons of massive over achievement but the club have let him down by not doing enough to keep players from leaving or strengthen the squad when required, they had built a great platform to really have a go at Munich but instead they just sold them their best players.
 
milo said:
Not necessarily. I think that there is a risk of players getting used to the same voice or getting complacent but also, the longer you stay in the job the greater the chance of something going wrong on your watch.

Klopp's system is not a million miles away from what Poch is trying to do with us. As we have seen, a high effort, pressing team can be very effective when everyone is on song but it only takes a few players to have an off day and the system becomes ineffective.
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You don't think he can turn it around?

I know it's been a massive fall from grace this season. But they can still handily finish mid table and in time this season could be the blip on an otherwise excellent record.

He's obviously a good coach, I think it's way too soon to say that his methods don't work there anymore.

galeforce said:
I think Klopp is a victim of his own success, the expectations were (rightly and understandably) raised by a few seasons of massive over achievement but the club have let him down by not doing enough to keep players from leaving or strengthen the squad when required, they had built a great platform to really have a go at Munich but instead they just sold them their best players.
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Agreed. The amount of good players he's lost year after year has been a massive thing to overcome and keep being successful for as long as he did is really impressive.

As a club I'm not sure they had much choice. They weren't in a situation financially to offer the kind of money others were offering to their players and several players left because of buyout clauses or because their contracts ran out. They've re-invested in the squad and with the possible exception (still early) of this year they've made some tremendous signings to replace outgoing players.

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They've seemingly turned the corner a bit after it looked like the misery would just continue after losing their first game. Reus signing a new contract is huge for them and they're still in the CL.

Personally I think Klopp is more than capable of turning this around and have them back fighting for CL places next year at least.
 
braineclipse said:
You don't think he can turn it around?

I know it's been a massive fall from grace this season. But they can still handily finish mid table and in time this season could be the blip on an otherwise excellent record.

He's obviously a good coach, I think it's way too soon to say that his methods don't work there anymore.
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He maybe able to turn it around and I was not saying that his methods did not work anymore. I was just saying that there is a risk of that happening when a manager stays in a job for a while and that a high pressing system is reliant on all of the players buying into the coaches methods if it is to work.
 
milo said:
Klopp has stayed there too long. Most of the best managers now days move on after three or so seasons.
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You think we only have 2 more seasons of Poch? Not saying you are wrong, just asking. I believe its been said in here that half the squad need to go and that he needs a few windows?
 
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galeforce said:
I think Klopp is a victim of his own success, the expectations were (rightly and understandably) raised by a few seasons of massive over achievement but the club have let him down by not doing enough to keep players from leaving or strengthen the squad when required, they had built a great platform to really have a go at Munich but instead they just sold them their best players.
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I don't think they really had much say in it. Bayern activated Gotze's release clause (a day before Dortmund's CL semi against Real I might add. clamish move from Bayern). Dortmund refused to sell Lewandowski, but they couldn't stop him leaving on a free.
 
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