Black Lives Matter

[SpurMeUp]

Unless there's a whole raft of evidence that we don't have access to, if they continue to push for 2nd degree murder they will fail.

They might squeak manslaughter past, but charging with 2nd degree is either for show or they have some knowledge of intent that isn't available publicly.

Initially, you said there wouldn't be a murder charge. Would you concede that was the wrong call?

Is white lives matter just a short way of saying white lives matter as much as black lives? Again, the aims and intents of the BLM organisation go way beyond the actual remedy of "Stop being racist". That's all their aims need to be, yet they (as always in this type of issue) insist on using it to further the far left political aims which have nothing to do with ending racism.

If we lived in a black-dominated society where white people were a minority with inherent societal issues that kept white people from attaining equality, then yes saying 'white lives matter' would mean white lives matter as much as black people.

The statement is about equality. And those bemoaning white equality are not living in a society where being white means you are less likely to get a job interview, where you are more likely to be poor, or be in prison. Therefore it says more about these folks hangups (and probably ignorance) than it does about black people trying to have a fair crack at living their lives.

You bemoan direct action, but it has affects. Look at Bristol. For decades people had discussed changing the name of a theatre, school and removing a statue. A school and theatre that many black people attend was associated with the abuse of black people. Nothing was done. Then in 2 days that all changed. So you have to accept that change does not occur through pleasant intellectual debate, and direct action puts the issue in people's consciousness.

 

[Grays_1890]

As was mentioned the other day on here, "I agree with your aim but not your methods" is pretty much considered racist in the echo chamber.

Never a truer statement, been a victim of that one myself.

What is scary is the reporting of news that things are fact before proven, by that time the horse has bolted and minds have been made up. That just adds to already tense times.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

With this one, you could argue it raises a discussion if the specific wording "Black Lives Matter" is divisive and a better phrase could be used, I would say yes to both.

It also raises a question to me about the goal of the media (which we know is focussed solely on agendas or money in the bank). More coverage of "fashionable" deaths than say the 3 white people stabbed in Reading or even local problems in this country. The media also deliberately ignore the possible nuance of what prompted someone to create this banner - they are obviously trolling, however there is a discussion here.

Just dismissing it as "racists they used the word white" is totally macaronic.

I agree they were trolling and also agree that its not racist.

The move towards a more equal society seems to have made everyone take a leave of their senses.

We need a run down of how many black and asian people white people kill a year and vice versa.

 

[Grays_1890]

I agree they were trolling and also agree that its not racist.

The move towards a more equal society seems to have made everyone take a leave of their senses.

We need a run down of how many black and asian people white people kill a year and vice versa.

I think the issue working against BLM is their name almost makes them seem like a record of the week and doesn’t do their mission justice. It plays to the modern social media friendly society, which works but then works against them.

Like I think I said on another post I watched the Hillary documentary on sky and they busted in on her speech near on 4 years ago when she was fighting their corner and life time human/black right activists stood with her condemned their actions.

It’s obviously a huge topic, had some great conversations on here with some great posters and in private, I do think there is a middle ground on it all in terms of level of action versus message. People argue that you wouldn’t notice them if it wasn’t pushed as aggressive and maybe they are right, I feel they lose the message and potential support due to message, but that’s just potato tomato points of view.

I would love to see a more equal society, I would like it more thought out though, I don’t want to see a lifetime of these BLM v Far Right marches as already it feels the BLM cause is becoming chip paper. It needs someone to drive it forward but methodically

 

[parklane1]

Twitter is the lowest of the low and so is anyone using it. Dont care if that offends anyone on here because its the truth.

Could not agree more, so many idiots, arseholes and wannabees. It seems to be a race between all those idiots to post things true or not.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Could not agree more, so many idiots, arseholes and wannabees. It seems to be a race between all those idiots to post things true or not.

Maybe they are the new 'race' of the future. The new underclass When everyone is a shade of grey we'll just discriminate against 'the Twits' and society will be a more just place!

 

[Glenda's Legs]

With this one, you could argue it raises a discussion if the specific wording "Black Lives Matter" is divisive and a better phrase could be used, I would say yes to both.

It also raises a question to me about the goal of the media (which we know is focussed solely on agendas or money in the bank). More coverage of "fashionable" deaths than say the 3 white people stabbed in Reading or even local problems in this country. The media also deliberately ignore the possible nuance of what prompted someone to create this banner - they are obviously trolling, however there is a discussion here.

Just dismissing it as "racists they used the word white" is totally macaronic.

I don’t think there’s any nuance to what prompted the bloke to create the banner. He posts a photo of himself with Tommy Robinson. He uses abhorrent language referring to tree dwelling spear throwers or such like. It may be jumping to a conclusion but personally I’m absolutely comfortable with the conclusion that his action was with racism in mind. If the BLM phrase were different (and I don’t think it needs to be, it’s pretty clear to anyone who wants to understand) I’d wager that he’d still be against the intentions (by which I mean the anti-racism, not the more extreme political motivations)

I appreciate you are also speaking in a wider context, not just this particular incident. And I certainly agree that the media has a lot to answer for. But with this one there was nothing nuanced about choosing to fly a banner with that message at that time imo.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I don’t think there’s any nuance to what prompted the bloke to create the banner. He posts a photo of himself with Tommy Robinson. He uses abhorrent language referring to tree dwelling spear throwers or such like. It may be jumping to a conclusion but personally I’m absolutely comfortable with the conclusion that his action was with racism in mind. If the BLM phrase were different (and I don’t think it needs to be, it’s pretty clear to anyone who wants to understand) I’d wager that he’d still be against the intentions (by which I mean the anti-racism, not the more extreme political motivations)

I appreciate you are also speaking in a wider context, not just this particular incident. And I certainly agree that the media has a lot to answer for. But with this one there was nothing nuanced about choosing to fly a banner with that message at that time imo.

Exactly, the guy was a racist EDL type.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'd be interested in seeing how hes' selected the samples there. There's obviously an issue but his ratio seems far too high to pass the sense check.

My concern is less with hoaxes (they've existed forever) and more with the reporting. With broadcast and print news, even the bricky journalists had training in journalism and their careers depended (to some extent) on their integrity. Further, they had editors they reported to who were usually very experienced in their roles who could also apply some integrity checks to what was being reported.

Now any old clam is a publisher and it tends to attract the less serious of mind more and more. Everyone is desperate to be the one reporting on an event first or shouting the loudest about it without any recourse should their reporting be based on a falsity.

Even worse are those who read such posts and instantly believe them, often echoing the reporting with added outrage, until the entire issue is blown out of all would be proportion even if the underlying facts were true.

First off, I could not agree more with the bold-faced above. On the money.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

It is has become an absolute scourge, but has been evolving for two decades. You can trace it back to the days of Sky first evolving. The other main issue has been sensationalism as "entertainment" and the conflation of that with "news", creating a very dangerous scenario whereby "news" is not "news" but "fed entertainment". I watched my world twisted and turned by these horrific issues (and they are horrific IMO as they subvert proper news). I resisted the cry from some "progressive" editors within my own world to "go for the big cheap splash" and always looked for substance and a proper story. The end result of their proliferation is that my area of "journalism" (music and entertainment" suffered extraordinarily as thanks to editors acquiescing to scumbag non-writers whose biggest interest was labeling such and such a coke hoover rather than focussing on their art, they ended up canibalising themselves and seeing internet foghorns render many print mags redundant in the short attention span public theatre. Apologies for the tanget...

Equally, regardless of medium, there are some things which are clearly clearly wrong. The murder of George Floyd (and it was murder) was wrong. It did not take much to see that.

We are in a dangerous phase, which I will address from my perspective in another post.

 

[thfcsteff]

Could not agree more, so many idiots, arseholes and wannabees. It seems to be a race between all those idiots to post things true or not.

Indeed.
Unfortunately, Trump "legitimized" it in the eyes of many by using it as his "policy mouthpiece". At the time I was shocked at how he'd managed to weaponize such a bricky tool. In some ways you have to marvel at a man who has no business being where he is finding a way there via the public urinal.

 

[thfcsteff]

For me we are in a very dangerous place. First of all, let's just allow that EVERY reaction -whether it be about Mourinho, politics, whatever- is carrying a 20-25% covid19 excess tax. Meaning we are all frustrated and going a little bananas. Of course we're largely keeping it together, but there has been major disruption for all of us, and whatever our viewpoints, that is both a fact and going to have an affect on every single person in the world today.

Protest is vital and I am delighted to see BLM and equality firmly on the table and being treated properly and with the respect and action they deserve. However, as is always the way, there are agents of malevolence working the lines between us all to force division, and there are extremists on both sides whose sole agenda is their own narrow gain at whatever cost.
The result (and this is all IMO) is that each swing gets a counter swing and the degrees of force get disproportionately greater.
I have spent over four decades standing for racial equality and justice, yet when we get to people wanting to ban Fawlty Towers or there Mighty Boosh, I think we are edging into dangerous waters. The counter-response to that action creates a huge amount of noise and detracts from the very simple issue at hand; racism. And because society lacks any middle ground discourse, we are currently racing towards extremes everywhere.

I have no issue with people questioning statues and deciding that some should either be moved to museums or have informational plaques. None. Some of those need to be moved to museums and have a whole lot of contextual information presented. That is healthy societal re-evaluation. I do have a problem with the erasure of history and the emerging concept that all historical statues of an era carry the same weight. We have to get the balance of this right, because if we don't, the net result will be greater polarization and anger than ever before. It will see knuckle-draggers like that macaron from Burnley become more emboldened and the divide and conquer will be greater.

The saddest thing is that I am really not sure whether we will be able to have a progressive and fulfilling discourse and subsequent plan of action that sees BLM and those vital issues get their absolutely on-point protest issues. I hope we do. I am encouraged by some of the changes I am already seeing, but this isa marathon not a sprint, and I fear that some are taking advantage of a very important set of issues to advance polarizing agendas.

 

[JerusalemMan]

With this one, you could argue it raises a discussion if the specific wording "Black Lives Matter" is divisive and a better phrase could be used, I would say yes to both.

It also raises a question to me about the goal of the media (which we know is focussed solely on agendas or money in the bank). More coverage of "fashionable" deaths than say the 3 white people stabbed in Reading or even local problems in this country. The media also deliberately ignore the possible nuance of what prompted someone to create this banner - they are obviously trolling, however there is a discussion here.

Just dismissing it as "racists they used the word white" is totally macaronic.

Interesting to see that the 3 gents murdered were all members of the LGBT+ community. A fact that isn't readily apparent. And certainly not being explored or asked about in much media.

 

[scaramanga]

For me we are in a very dangerous place. First of all, let's just allow that EVERY reaction -whether it be about Mourinho, politics, whatever- is carrying a 20-25% covid19 excess tax. Meaning we are all frustrated and going a little bananas. Of course we're largely keeping it together, but there has been major disruption for all of us, and whatever our viewpoints, that is both a fact and going to have an affect on every single person in the world today.

Protest is vital and I am delighted to see BLM and equality firmly on the table and being treated properly and with the respect and action they deserve. However, as is always the way, there are agents of malevolence working the lines between us all to force division, and there are extremists on both sides whose sole agenda is their own narrow gain at whatever cost.
The result (and this is all IMO) is that each swing gets a counter swing and the degrees of force get disproportionately greater.
I have spent over four decades standing for racial equality and justice, yet when we get to people wanting to ban Fawlty Towers or there Mighty Boosh, I think we are edging into dangerous waters. The counter-response to that action creates a huge amount of noise and detracts from the very simple issue at hand; racism. And because society lacks any middle ground discourse, we are currently racing towards extremes everywhere.

I have no issue with people questioning statues and deciding that some should either be moved to museums or have informational plaques. None. Some of those need to be moved to museums and have a whole lot of contextual information presented. That is healthy societal re-evaluation. I do have a problem with the erasure of history and the emerging concept that all historical statues of an era carry the same weight. We have to get the balance of this right, because if we don't, the net result will be greater polarization and anger than ever before. It will see knuckle-draggers like that macaron from Burnley become more emboldened and the divide and conquer will be greater.

The saddest thing is that I am really not sure whether we will be able to have a progressive and fulfilling discourse and subsequent plan of action that sees BLM and those vital issues get their absolutely on-point protest issues. I hope we do. I am encouraged by some of the changes I am already seeing, but this isa marathon not a sprint, and I fear that some are taking advantage of a very important set of issues to advance polarizing agendas.

This isn't a few bad apples or some people taking over a movement. The leaders of BLM have made their stated aims those of extremist left wing ideologues.

Ending racism is a good aim, those of BLM are not. This isn't extremists attaching themselves to BLM, BLM are extremists hiding behind an anti-racism-stance.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

This isn't a few bad apples or some people taking over a movement. The leaders of BLM have made their stated aims those of extremist left wing ideologues.

Ending racism is a good aim, those of BLM are not. This isn't extremists attaching themselves to BLM, BLM are extremists hiding behind an anti-racism-stance.

Most forces for change is driven by extremist. We are trying to change a mind set that been in place thousands of years. It's so sad when you see small children playing together without a thought of the nationality, race or religion and you realise adults will fill their young minds with poison.

 

[thfcsteff]

This isn't a few bad apples or some people taking over a movement. The leaders of BLM have made their stated aims those of extremist left wing ideologues.

Ending racism is a good aim, those of BLM are not. This isn't extremists attaching themselves to BLM, BLM are extremists hiding behind an anti-racism-stance.

IF that is true -and I am not personally prepared to tether the motives of an otherwise great movement to the words of one member from 5 years ago on, err, social media- then it is a damning indictment of the problem that it took such involvement to draw notice and motivate action to something which should've been addressed so many years/decades ago. Of course now the danger lies in amplifying such suspected factions within BLM as opposed to getting behind their major message, which is clear and direct. Otherwise we risk the same polarization dangers as before.

 

[SteveAWOL]

When Karen from Facebook decides to become a BLM protestor

https://twitter.com/x/status/1275568020853870592

 

[parklane1]

When Karen from Facebook decides to become a BLM protestor

https://twitter.com/x/status/1275568020853870592

One born every minute.

 

[johnola]

Do BLM accept that there is a deeply ingrained class system in the UK.

And that most of the white population just would throw their their hands in the air and say that is the way it is.

Privilege is not equal in this country but it’s not across racial lines.

And by the way. The one percent with enhanced privilege were those who took slaves from Africa to the new world in the generations after Queen Elizabeth banned (white) slavery in the UK.

 

[scaramanga]

Do BLM accept that there is a deeply ingrained class system in the UK.

And that most of the white population just would throw their their hands in the air and say that is the way it is.

Privilege is not equal in this country but it’s not across racial lines.

And by the way. The one percent with enhanced privilege were those who took slaves from Africa to the new world in the generations after Queen Elizabeth banned (white) slavery in the UK.

https://outline.com/RCXrvv

 

[AuroRaman]

Do BLM accept that there is a deeply ingrained class system in the UK.

And that most of the white population just would throw their their hands in the air and say that is the way it is.

Privilege is not equal in this country but it’s not across racial lines.

And by the way. The one percent with enhanced privilege were those who took slaves from Africa to the new world in the generations after Queen Elizabeth banned (white) slavery in the UK.

I would strongly recommend reading Natives by Akala for an incredibly well-informed, well-sourced and lived experience take on this very subject.