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Black Lives Matter

thfcsteff said:
If you think Dianne Abbott has the power to incite similar behaviour in the UK, then frankly, her powers of persuasion are being wasted. FFS. Do you really think she is doing that? Why would it be in her interest? Please.
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She is trying to stir stuff up,which is what her sort of politician does.


The is no defence of the police in America and i have a great deal of sympathy for the protesters. The treatment of black Americans is disgusting and the view of a couple on here trying to make excuses for them is just wrong.

That video is crystal clear, they behaviour of the police was disgusting and Trump is inflaming the situation. I dont mind being tough on crime, it appeals to me. But you do not murder people.
 
thfcsteff said:
You're speculating on many things. The facts are that policing does not include such methods,
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I think they do. From social media, so give the sauce the (lack of) respect it deserves, but I believe police there are trained to use that as a form of restraint.

thfcsteff said:
and their application in this case have caused a man's death.
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We don't know that yet. This is entirely my point. It may have, it may not have - lets not let part of a video decide that for us.

thfcsteff said:
Which is murder.
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Not necessarily. Often it's manslaughter it just misadventure.

We'll know when all the evidence is available.

thfcsteff said:
He said he could not breathe; at that point they should've been up and off him, should never have been there in the first place but there we go...they had him cuffed and on the floor across the street. You want to arrest him, have the car pull up to that point. No need to drag him up and walk him across the street (all rather complaint for a man "resisting arrest", right?)...

You call it what you want. I know what I think.
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He apparently said a lot of things to try and not be arrested. Problem is, police hear that every day.
 
scaramanga said:
So if the coroner's report is accurate (and I'm not saying it is without more information) how does someone asphyxiate another via the neck without trauma to the windpipe?
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I suspect the main reason for someone going unconscious from the knee to the neck is pressing against the carotid artery and reducing blood supply to the head. You wouldn't expect damage to the windpipe. It looked to me that the pressure was on the side of the neck.

Edit. Here is the photo. The knee is not near the windpipe so you wouldn't expect damage to the windpipe.

90


Mechanical compression with blood vessels in the neck causes a reduction in oxygenation of the brain, leading to cerebral hypoxia/ischaemia, anaerobic metabolism, and acidaemia/acidosis (similar to the effects of cardiac arrest on the brain (Longstreth 2001).

The term “asphyxia” is commonly used in the forensic literature to describe this sequence, but it is not a term used in clinical practice, except in relation to “birth asphyxia”, a situation that has also been criticised (Depp 1995).

The term “asphyxia” - literally meaning without a pulse - should be avoided, according to the Goudge Inquiry (Goudge 2008), as it is too unspecific a term.

Alternative mechanisms of death following pressure to the neck include some form of neurologically-mediated cardiac arrest, stimulated by mechanical compression of neck structures such as the carotid sinus, and carotid body.

http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/pressure-to-the-neck/
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scaramanga said:
It does - the event even lead to a law in that name didn't it?

This case might no fit those facts though. The inference from the police is that someone with a heart condition loaded up that high would have likely died after any physical confrontation that day. That means the knee to the neck (whilst entirely wrong and a stackable offence) was not the cause of death and not murder.

As I've already said, we don't know nearly enough yet to say whether the version presented by the media is an accurate depiction or the one presented by the police that started a good 10 minutes before any released footage does.
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Extremely tenuous to suggest this relatively young guy would have died anyway that day. What would be the odds?

If you were being restrained - rightly or wrongly - with a knee to you neck, screaming you can’t breath, would it be just to continue that force to your neck with you (also coincidentally) passing out?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Extremely tenuous to suggest this relatively young guy would have died anyway that day. What would be the odds?

If you were being restrained - rightly or wrongly - with a knee to you neck, screaming you can’t breath, would it be just to continue that force to your neck with you (also coincidentally) passing out?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Given a weak heart, a bricktonne of drugs and a prolonged adrenaline rush? Don't know but high enough to be plausible.
 
jts1882 said:
I suspect the main reason for someone going unconscious from the knee to the neck is pressing against the carotid artery and reducing blood supply to the head. You wouldn't expect damage to the windpipe. It looked to me that the pressure was on the side of the neck.
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I did wonder that and briefly researched it.

I believe he'd have been unconscious in about 10 seconds if that were the case.
 
scaramanga said:
Given a weak heart, a bricktonne of drugs and a prolonged adrenaline rush? Don't know but high enough to be plausible.
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What was the adrenaline rush caused by? You think it likely that day was the first time he did drugs? You think him passing out cold had nothing to do with the knee to his neck?

The odds are microscopic. So much so, your argument looks churlish.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
What was the adrenaline rush caused by? You think it likely that day was the first time he did drugs? You think him passing out cold had nothing to do with the knee to his neck?

The odds are microscopic. So much so, your argument looks churlish.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I think the adrenaline rush was caused by the 10 minutes if refusing to get in the car that was reported to happen but has, for some reason, been left off the video sent to news agencies.
 
scaramanga said:
I've never seen anyone die from having someone kneel on their neck either. Neither answer are enough for me to immediately assume the media narrative is correct without far more information.
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Is it is fair to say that physical trauma to a sensitive part of the anatomy close to the head is significantly more likely to cause death; than being told to get into a car?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
Is it is fair to say that physical trauma to a sensitive part of the anatomy close to the head is significantly more likely to cause death; than being told to get into a car?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Just as fair to say that any trauma to that area would show up on autopsy, no?

I'm not saying what did or didn't happen, simply that everyone going into full looting mode based in half a video is a little ridiculous.
 
scaramanga said:
Just as fair to say that any trauma to that area would show up on autopsy, no?

I'm not saying what did or didn't happen, simply that everyone going into full looting mode based in half a video is a little ridiculous.
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I think the Cop was heavy handed 100% and he will be dealt with and in the correct manor

But you are right about the looting, a protest is one thing, attacking shops and innocent people is the exact thing you are suppose to be protesting about, so it does not help your cause.
 
galeforce said:
Yeah, it’s only one incident, it’s not like the us authorities have a history of racist action...
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Their record is utterly horrendous, but like I said early not all black people are criminal and not all cops are racists, so there is a stalemate that seems so far apart there seems to be no end in sight.

The issues are not helped by the looting as it plays into the rhetoric of criminality and the privileged leftist whites that you see joining the protests in masks and kicking the heads in of shop keepers are not helping them either. Its all fuel to the flames and muddies the waters even further.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Their record is utterly horrendous, but like I said early not all black people are criminal and not all cops are racists, so there is a stalemate that seems so far apart there seems to be no end in sight.

The issues are not helped by the looting as it plays into the rhetoric of criminality and the privileged leftist whites that you see joining the protests in masks and kicking the heads in of shop keepers are not helping them either. Its all fuel to the flames and muddies the waters even further.
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Agreed re cops and I’m sure most of them get into the profession and do it for the right reasons. But it happens far too often for it to dispel the rhetoric that gets trotted out by republicans “a few bad apples”. It’s much worse than that. They need reexamine what types of people get into law enforcement. It seems they attract bullies like the Catholic Church attracts paedos.

I think we are all unanimous re the looting. There will always be idiots who want to indulge in that behaviour and be opportunistic when it comes to looting.
 
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