Ben Davies

[Maltese Falcon]

Maybe some people think he's a relatively young player who needs some more experience and has some potential. Look at Danny Rose before this season. We are a club that generally has to buy players who have not reached their peak yet - Bale, Modders, Carrick for example. Some of them improve to be really good, others don't.

Danny Rose has been pretty decent at left back since the Redknapp days. For sure, he never made the schoolboy errors that we saw Davies do this season. His quality was always there, but he needed to mature, cut out the rash decisions and control his temper; it's only because he was the spacegoat of so many posters that he was picked upon. It is this type of deficiency that will improve a player with more playing time. He always had great spatial awareness, good control and above the most difficult skill for a full back... knowing when to put the afterburners on to overlap your midfielder.

Davies shows none of those; he has poor awareness, average technique and insignificant attacking potential; he is clearly unsuited to the Poch system. It looks pretty obvious to me that he was not requested by Poch but his signing - a 2 for 1 Levy deal - was agreed before Poch joined.

He will not be at the club in two autumns time...

 

[a spur from swansea]

Danny Rose has been pretty decent at left back since the Redknapp days. For sure, he never made the schoolboy errors that we saw Davies do this season. His quality was always there, but he needed to mature, cut out the rash decisions and control his temper; it's only because he was the spacegoat of so many posters that he was picked upon. It is this type of deficiency that will improve a player with more playing time. He always had great spatial awareness, good control and above the most difficult skill for a full back... knowing when to put the afterburners on to overlap your midfielder.

Davies shows none of those; he has poor awareness, average technique and insignificant attacking potential; he is clearly unsuited to the Poch system. It looks pretty obvious to me that he was not requested by Poch but his signing - a 2 for 1 Levy deal - was agreed before Poch joined.

He will not be at the club in two autumns time...

A bit of a contridiction there.......so how long as Davies been at Tottenham and since we are using Rose as an example how long has he been at the club,how old are the two players a few years difference I believe. Who has most experience of playing at the club,Rose of course.Davies wasn't exactly helped by Mason on Saturday,can someone explain to me what he was trying to do with the ball at the edge of the box,i agree his header for the second goal was a bit weak but again where were our midfield players picking the loose ball up,i can't see how he was at fault for both goals where there were other people not doing their jobs properly.

I will stand up for Davies here,as someone whose seen him play since he came into Swansea's first team and numerous times for Wales ,he's a solid defender who will do a solid job,he's not a Rose type of player that bombs up the line when needs must, Davies will do what he suppose to do.....defend,he will get up the line and also will track back. How many penalties has he given away this year,none i think,free kicks at the edge of the box,not many,compare Davies tackle down at the Liberty with Bony(plus Davies set up Erikksen up for the winner).....to Rose tackle up in Anfield,totally the wrong side of the player and a lame attempt at getting the ball .M.P obiously gave the go ahead for the signing.Poch became manager in May and we signed Davies middle of July infact we already played numerous friendlies before we signed him.Denfensely, i still think MP still doesn't know his best line up, how many changes has there been this season in our back four,i can't understand why he put Kaboul as team captain and then totally dismiss him after a couple of months,the biggest mistake the club made was to sell Dawson,if we ever needed a leader of sorts it would have been him. He would have organise the back four and given Davies a big hand in blending in to the team.

I think its totally over the top to have a go at a player whose only been here for 2 minutes,and leaves a bit of a sour taste that Spurs fans were smerking when Davies was taken off on a stretcher and getting replaced,very sad.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If we're going to persist with playing Chadli (or even Ericksen) as our left sided attacking midfielder then Davies should not be in the team. We cannot expect a player with zero pace to provide us with the width we need. If in the Summer we sign a true left winger then I think Davies could play behind him, but it looks as though that isn't the sort of formation that Pochettino wants at all and therefore it looks like we have simply wasted another £10 million.

 

[harr1984]

If we're going to persist with playing Chadli (or even Ericksen) as our left sided attacking midfielder then Davies should not be in the team. We cannot expect a player with zero pace to provide us with the width we need. If in the Summer we sign a true left winger then I think Davies could play behind him, but it looks as though that isn't the sort of formation that Pochettino wants at all and therefore it looks like we have simply wasted another £10 million.

Agree, it all stems to the fact that Davies isn't a good option for the system we tend to play - not that he is a bad player....

 

[braineclipse]

If we're going to persist with playing Chadli (or even Ericksen) as our left sided attacking midfielder then Davies should not be in the team. We cannot expect a player with zero pace to provide us with the width we need. If in the Summer we sign a true left winger then I think Davies could play behind him, but it looks as though that isn't the sort of formation that Pochettino wants at all and therefore it looks like we have simply wasted another £10 million.

Except of course for the examples of full back with relatively little pace playing behind "inverted wingers" with considerable success for them and their teams you mean?

 

[parklane1]

Danny Rose has been pretty decent at left back since the Redknapp days. For sure, he never made the schoolboy errors that we saw Davies do this season. His quality was always there, but he needed to mature, cut out the rash decisions and control his temper; it's only because he was the spacegoat of so many posters that he was picked upon. It is this type of deficiency that will improve a player with more playing time. He always had great spatial awareness, good control and above the most difficult skill for a full back... knowing when to put the afterburners on to overlap your midfielder.

Davies shows none of those; he has poor awareness, average technique and insignificant attacking potential; he is clearly unsuited to the Poch system. It looks pretty obvious to me that he was not requested by Poch but his signing - a 2 for 1 Levy deal - was agreed before Poch joined.

He will not be at the club in two autumns time...

Is this not what you are doing to a player who has just turned 22, it seems like that to me.

 

[Armchair Expert]

i appear to be in a tiny minority here, but i think in the attacking third davies has demonstrated ample technique and nous to suggest he can contribute in the long term as an attacking force.

i was pleased when we signed him, and i remain pleased to have him at the club. we are very fortunate to have two high quality left backs.

 

[braineclipse]

i appear to be in a tiny minority here, but i think in the attacking third davies has demonstrated ample technique and nous to suggest he can contribute in the long term as an attacking force.

i was pleased when we signed him, and i remain pleased to have him at the club. we are very fortunate to have two high quality left backs.

Might just be that the "Ben Davies doesn't fit in with our system" minority it very vocal...

 

[parklane1]

i appear to be in a tiny minority here, but i think in the attacking third davies has demonstrated ample technique and nous to suggest he can contribute in the long term as an attacking force.

i was pleased when we signed him, and i remain pleased to have him at the club. we are very fortunate to have two high quality left backs.

I am with you as well.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Except of course for the examples of full back with relatively little pace playing behind "inverted wingers" with considerable success for them and their teams you mean?

Do these mythical creatures also play for teams who's manager wants them to play a high line?

 

[braineclipse]

Do these mythical creatures also play for teams who's manager wants them to play a high line?

Sure. Or rather, as high a line as frequently as we do under Pochettino - sure.

 

[Finney Is Back]

i appear to be in a tiny minority here, but i think in the attacking third davies has demonstrated ample technique and nous to suggest he can contribute in the long term as an attacking force.

i was pleased when we signed him, and i remain pleased to have him at the club. we are very fortunate to have two high quality left backs.

His technique is absolutely fine, I think he is a good footballer. However the problems with him in our system are threefold:

1. All of our width has to come from our fullbacks marauding forward on the overlap, Davies does not have the pace to get in behind on the overlap.
2. When we surrender possession in the opponents half with the fullbacks pushed on, Davies does not have the pace to recover and get himself goalside of the opponents wide midfield player/winger as they break.
3. Because our left back gets very little help from the left midfielder in front of him (typically Chadli) it is often the wrong decision for the left back to try to force his opponent inside. However Davies is very easily beaten on the outside due to his lack of pace.

It's not that Davies is a bad player, it's just that he is a bad player in a system that relies on inverted wingers, a high line and a player in front of the left back who gives him no cover.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sure. Or rather, as high a line as frequently as we do under Pochettino - sure.

Who are these players?

 

[braineclipse]

Who are these players?

Been over a few examples already in the past. Just to make a quick disclaimer, there's obviously not going to be a whole host of perfect comparisons including the inverted winger, high pressing team, passing footballing team, slower full back at a high (but perhaps not too high?) level.

Blind at Man United, Zabaleta at Emirates Marketing Project, Ivanovic at Chelsea, Schmeltzer at Dortmund, Ekotto for us, Arbeloa for Real. Just to name a few that have been successful and effective attacking full backs, at times with inverted wingers ahead of them. None of them are/were typical overlapping full backs with extreme pace, but can effectively support a wide player that prefers cutting inside. Primarily by arriving a bit later into attacking areas and taking part in buildup passing play. I've even seen it argued that having one more marauding full back playing almost as a wing-back and one slightly more conservative full back makes teams more solid and less prone to over committing men forward. Examples like Arbeloa and Marcelo at Real, or Alves and Abidal at Barca.

Now, not all those teams play a high line, certainly not all the time. I'm assuming your question was related to how do you defend against balls over the top etc without extreme pace? I think extreme pace is somewhat overrated in those situations, it's certainly nice, but not a requirement. Some of the examples above highlights this, others can be made and others including centre backs can be made.

It's also worth mentioning (imo) that Ben Davies is not outright slow for a full back. He gets compared to Walker and Rose who are up there towards the extreme end of fast and in comparison he seems slow. But Ben Davies is reasonably quick. Specifically about Davies and the examples above, not all those mentioned above were thought of as effective attacking full backs at 22, actually very few were.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

he's a solid defender who will do a solid job,

But that's exactly it! He isn't a solid defender; he suffers one brain fart after another - Saturday being the latest.

I would understand his attacking limitations but the stacking up of goals that come from his indecision, ball watching or powderpuff defending are simply too many to ignore.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Is this not what you are doing to a player who has just turned 22, it seems like that to me.

I disagree. spacegoaters are those who will never praise a player they target. If you want to see what spacegoating is, just look at the Townsend thread and see the reaction of his haters following his great goal against Swansea.

People who want to spacegoat a player do not post this..

Thought Davies had a decent game at left CB. With little left to play for, would love see him in a back 3... Dier - Vert/Fazio - Davies and then using Walkar and Rose as wingbacks to finally give us some width

 

[parklane1]

I disagree. spacegoaters are those who will never praise a player they target. If you want to see what spacegoating is, just look at the Townsend thread and see the reaction of his haters following his great goal against Swansea.

People who want to spacegoat a player do not post this..

How about people who post this about a kid who has just turned 22. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

But that's exactly it! He isn't a solid defender; he suffers one brain fart after another

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

If we're going to persist with playing Chadli (or even Ericksen) as our left sided attacking midfielder then Davies should not be in the team. We cannot expect a player with zero pace to provide us with the width we need. If in the Summer we sign a true left winger then I think Davies could play behind him, but it looks as though that isn't the sort of formation that Pochettino wants at all and therefore it looks like we have simply wasted another £10 million.

But the thing is many people are now criticising Pochettino for not having a plan b, couldn't he be part of our plan B (if we had a quick left winger or someone who could play that way (hint Townsend). Pochettino may have a system but you can't expect that system to work every time. We need to be more flexible, part of our downfall is that we cnnot adapt/adjust when plan A does not work.

 

[Finney Is Back]

But the thing is many people are now criticising Pochettino for not having a plan b, couldn't he be part of our plan B (if we had a quick left winger or someone who could play that way (hint Townsend). Pochettino may have a system but you can't expect that system to work every time. We need to be more flexible, part of our downfall is that we cnnot adapt/adjust when plan A does not work.

I would be absolutely fine with that.... It's our manager that needs convincing (as we've seen by him sidelining and then jettisoning the only true wide midfield player we have at the club).

 

[Maltese Falcon]

How about people who post this about a kid who has just turned 22. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

But that's exactly it! He isn't a solid defender; he suffers one brain fart after another

Excuse me? If that is incorrect, I will gladly put my hand up. But has he not had one brain fart after another? I have no intention of doing a post mortem, but my impression is that a lot of the goals we conceded in games in which he started were the result of some error from him. He was taken to the cleaners by Championship wingers nobody has heard of. If I was his only critic, I could see that maybe I was being unfair but other than you four, every other posters have said practically the same; indeed some have barracked him in a way that make my comments seem almost complementary.

And is there an age below which we are not allowed to criticise successive poor performances?