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AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread
- Thread starter BAE
- Start date
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
From reading about him - anyone that knows his career suggests he prefers a much more fluid style compared to Mourinho.
I'm sure he did learn a lot from Mourinho, but he's also very much his own man and has his own preferences. I too would describe us as effective last year rather than fluid, but I think that was out of necessity rather than design.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Misspelling on my part...should've said 'cliches which ONCE surrounded him'...
I said 'like Brazil yesterday'...high-pressure, high-tempo game, effective use of possession, push the full-backs up, playmaking star with a free role from the left to wherever he wants with the team moving to accommodate, clever striker...this is clearly not a Brazil set up to samba their way to glory. It is a more effective, high-energy and combative Brazil, something of a hybrid between the Dunga-led 94 side and the 2002 side...
On a wider note, AVB's plan is clear and one I think we all like? Namely he obviously wants a squad of 25 players where EVERYONE can switch effortlessly between 2 or 3 formations/systems per game depending on what's needed. I feel AVB wants to be able to go from 4-3-3 to 4-5-1 to 3-5-2 even (not necessarily THESE formations more the concept of swapping between 2-3 formations per match) and for that to happen you need everyone to be able to play 2 or 3 positions if needed. When I have time I'll break down how I see the squad in that sense... thus the upgrades to the squad he desires and is making...I think its interesting and somewhat excellent.
kroakie123
Andy Reid
Do you feel that Tom Huddlestone still has a place within avb's squad?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Signing players more or less exclusively in that category.
Developing players through the youth academy where most fit that category.
Selling players that don't fit that category.
It seems to me for example that AVB wants us to be comfortable playing the ball out from the back. Thus every signing we've made have been players that have been at least good on the ball, including defenders and goalkeepers. If we, under AVB, all of a sudden sign another Bassong style centre back or Friedel style goalkeeper then I will have to change my ideas around that.
Similarly I think we want to build a team with a lot of stamina/energy that can press fairly high up the pitch for extended periods if we want.
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
but then his team at porto that had industry through the centre, lack of pure flair / creative players through the middle and had the flair and craft on the wings with over lapping full backs
it was the same as mourinho
and then he comes to us and he pretty much does the same thing
i dont know. its one thing saying stuff, its another to implement it.
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
the second paragraph is the desire of most top technical coaches...even JOl was trying to build that with us. Not really revoltuionary, but it is excellent none the less
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
How is Moutinho a lack of flair/creative players in the middle?
The player that people on here wanted us to sign to add that creativity to our midfield.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
No? Then why was everyone tossing over him last summer about him being that creative player who would be the last piece to the puzzle?
uksb
Jamie Redknapp
I don't think everyone did. I think a lot of people realised he was more of a box to box, keep things ticking over type player - rather than a playmaker
Who actually plays with a midfield play-maker these days? They're so rare, I think you could possibly name them on your two hands:
Pirlo
Carrick
Alonso
Xavi
Even Rodgers the idealist abandoned the "Joe Allen experiment" half way through the season which interestingly enough coincided with Liverpool's up-turn in form as everything didn't HAVE to go through a slow-coach deep in midfield before it "happened"...he decided instead to get the ball quicker and more directly to Coutinho, Sturridge and Suarez so the opposition defences didn't have a chance to set themselves while the "play-maker" decided what he wanted to do with the ball.
Oh and the other thing is that play-makers tend to just get a defensive midfielder from the opposition placed on them with the sole instruction to boot him up in the air as many times as he can without getting red carded...
Pirlo
Carrick
Alonso
Xavi
Even Rodgers the idealist abandoned the "Joe Allen experiment" half way through the season which interestingly enough coincided with Liverpool's up-turn in form as everything didn't HAVE to go through a slow-coach deep in midfield before it "happened"...he decided instead to get the ball quicker and more directly to Coutinho, Sturridge and Suarez so the opposition defences didn't have a chance to set themselves while the "play-maker" decided what he wanted to do with the ball.
Oh and the other thing is that play-makers tend to just get a defensive midfielder from the opposition placed on them with the sole instruction to boot him up in the air as many times as he can without getting red carded...
What do the teams those players play for all have in common?
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braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Busquets at Barca actually
Gundogan at Dortmund, they also have Sahin back now of course.
Schweinsteiger at Bayern
Verratti at PSG
Montolivo at Milan
Banega at Valencia
Arteta at Arsenal
I'm sure there are more. Bilbao have some very good ball playing central midfielders iirc, but I haven't watched them this season at all. Athletico Madrid too I think?
You could argue that a couple of those are more box to box players, but I think they're all capable of playing that deep playmaker role and fulfill that function in a team even if they're not a dedicated deep/central playmaker.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
I would say Silva at city also, he played many games as a deeper playmaker next to Yaya the destroyer.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Personally? Not now, no. Style-wise, yes. But I think AVB is looking for his squad members to also have a proper engine/fitness/dynamism. Hudd doesn't have these plus he has a chronic condition to manage. I felt personally that AVB did supremely well getting good performances out of him last season when needed, indeed, he really managed to use the squad effectively, but I suspect he is looking beyond him for this coming season if all goes to plan.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I think the single greatest undoing (and I made this point before in another thread somewhere so forgive the repetition) in our recent history was the poaching of Frank Arnesen.
We hear a lot about how 'shabbily' managers have been treated in our recent past, when nothing compares to the appalling treatment Santini got. This was a direct consequence of Arnesen. He had identified Jol as his man, and had convinced Levy that their 1-2 punch would be the firestarter. Levy was absolutely on board and gave Arnesen loads of control. Arnesen even told Jol to forget about other jobs because theirs was a 'team' destined to succeed. Abramovich got wind through his people and snuffed the potential fire out. Levy was mortified, and Jol never recovered because his next DoF was a man with whom he did not get on. It's an interesting point to ponder; where would a Jol/Arnesen team have got?
One thing with AVB I love is how he gets on with things. This time last season he absolutely wanted Moutinho and Willian. He got neither. Rather than sit and complain, he got on with it, and now he has moved on in terms of targets. He is incredibly progressive IMO, and now he has Baldini doing the leg-work on these deals, I feel extraordinarily excited about the direction we are going.
N.B. I should add that personally, I felt Commoil did a fine job so my comments about Arnesen/Jol axis being broken was as much an observation on how much it hurt Levy, who had a dream at that time which heavily involved Arnesen. I have pondered whether it's one of the reasons he stone-cold refused to let Sherwood leave last season for any fee.
^ Levy would have been incredibly gutted when Arnesen was poached im sure - the time and effort he put in the season prior to FA's arrival working on researching the DoF structure across Europe/how best to implement it - who was the right man/men for the job only for it to be undone barely two years later. . . the amount of flak that got directed at him when we first set it up as well from the media was relentless - outright ridicule for daring to do something different in English football
Commoli, imv, was a quick fix solution when Arnesen was poached - it wasn't exactly the disaster some have down as but i think it's safe to say it set us back a couple of years - im glad it didn't put Levy off of the DoF system and am delighted that we have now returned to it.
Commoli, imv, was a quick fix solution when Arnesen was poached - it wasn't exactly the disaster some have down as but i think it's safe to say it set us back a couple of years - im glad it didn't put Levy off of the DoF system and am delighted that we have now returned to it.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
We should have got Kinnear in. He is the best DOF in the league by far, probably because of his extensive experience in football management.
Joking aside I really hope this is the dawn of something big, really big. And by big I mean a title tilt and not another attempt to squeeze into 4th place, which has been our level for the last few years. I am as optimistic as I have been about Spurs for many a long year and while its good to be at the sharp end of the table each season, I think being the nearly men for too many years has not done anything for the mood of the supporters. Falling at the last hurdle too many times has made us a moody bunch. We need a wave of excellence on the pitch and a bit of success to salve the wounds of recent failures.
Joking aside I really hope this is the dawn of something big, really big. And by big I mean a title tilt and not another attempt to squeeze into 4th place, which has been our level for the last few years. I am as optimistic as I have been about Spurs for many a long year and while its good to be at the sharp end of the table each season, I think being the nearly men for too many years has not done anything for the mood of the supporters. Falling at the last hurdle too many times has made us a moody bunch. We need a wave of excellence on the pitch and a bit of success to salve the wounds of recent failures.