AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

[Gutter Boy]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

Think our squad is shaping up very nicely for a 4-3-3, with 3 final additions (Paulinho + any 2 of Villa, Leandro and Bernard say)

------------------Lloris
-----------------(Friedel)

--Walker-----Kaboul---Vertonghen---BAE
(Naughton)--(Dawson)--(Caulker)--(Rose)

---Paulinho--------Sandro-------Dembele
-(Sigurdsson)------(Holtby)--------(Carroll)

--Bale
-(Lennon)-------(Adebayor)-----(Dempsey)


+ Smith, Townsend, Falque to make up the 25 (and Defoe, Parker, Huddlestone, Gomes, Livermore and Khumalo the six to make way)

 

[billyiddo]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

im unsure as to whether we plan on having Paulhino Dembele and Sandro as a permanent 3 or that we are possibly planning on rotating them using two positions whilst having Holtby Carroll and Sigurdsson for the more creative role.

as others have said it's all about options i guess - the first 3 would give us a very strong core to take in to games against the top 4 and your more difficult away games such as Everton, Stoke and Liverpool, whilst benching one (or two) for the younger more creative players should hopefully help us 'unlock' the sides which come to WHL purely to nick a point.

Id really like to see Carroll get some premier league game time next season, was very impressed with nearly all of his cameos last season and there was several games where he came on and had a direct impact on turning things in or favor - any one of Holtby/Sig/Carroll playing alongside two of the aforementioned players should be allowed the comfort to play to their strengths

it was a hard opening season to get a real feel for how AVB uses squad options as the only real area of the team in which we were somewhat flush with options was defense - and for the best part of the season i seem to recall he chopped and changed a fair bit - out of necessity or out of tactical reasons depending on the type of opponent could be argued either way, but id like to think it was the latter and if so id be very interested to see how he would go about using what hopefully will be a very exciting crop of midfield players.

initially i was somewhat disappointed with us chasing, what seemed to me, a bit of a Dembele mkII - but on reflection i think i was a little hasty in writing off our young selection of creative midfielders and think it could well turn out to be the best direction to go in. (or maybe im just desperate for a signing, any signing :lol

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

im unsure as to whether we plan on having Paulhino Dembele and Sandro as a permanent 3 or that we are possibly planning on rotating them using two positions whilst having Holtby Carroll and Sigurdsson for the more creative role.

as others have said it's all about options i guess - the first 3 would give us a very strong core to take in to games against the top 4 and your more difficult away games such as Everton, Stoke and Liverpool, whilst benching one (or two) for the younger more creative players should hopefully help us 'unlock' the sides which come to WHL purely to nick a point.

Id really like to see Carroll get some premier league game time next season, was very impressed with nearly all of his cameos last season and there was several games where he came on and had a direct impact on turning things in or favor - any one of Holtby/Sig/Carroll playing alongside two of the aforementioned players should be allowed the comfort to play to their strengths

it was a hard opening season to get a real feel for how AVB uses squad options as the only real area of the team in which we were somewhat flush with options was defense - and for the best part of the season i seem to recall he chopped and changed a fair bit - out of necessity or out of tactical reasons depending on the type of opponent could be argued either way, but id like to think it was the latter and if so id be very interested to see how he would go about using what hopefully will be a very exciting crop of midfield players.

initially i was somewhat disappointed with us chasing, what seemed to me, a bit of a Dembele mkII - but on reflection i think i was a little hasty in writing off our young selection of creative midfielders and think it could well turn out to be the best direction to go in. (or maybe im just desperate for a signing, any signing :lol

Yeah - I'm the same.

Going for Paulinho over say a Pjanic or Belhanda reminded me that Holtby, Siggy and Carroll actually provide some fantastic options and all have an awful lot of potential.

It seems that perhaps AVB believes Holtby was/will be a suitable alternative to Moutinho.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

Think our squad is shaping up very nicely for a 4-3-3, with 3 final additions (Paulinho + any 2 of Villa, Leandro and Bernard say)

------------------Lloris
-----------------(Friedel)

--Walker-----Kaboul---Vertonghen---BAE
(Naughton)--(Dawson)--(Caulker)--(Rose)

---Paulinho--------Sandro-------Dembele
-(Sigurdsson)------(Holtby)--------(Carroll)

--Bale
-(Lennon)-------(Adebayor)-----(Dempsey)


+ Smith, Townsend, Falque to make up the 25 (and Defoe, Parker, Huddlestone, Gomes, Livermore and Khumalo the six to make way)

I hope you are very very wrong. One of the things that has really worked for us over the last few seasons is the togetherness of the squad, and I believe that is down to an English core of players. Rip that away and it would be to our detriment. Besides we are in English club and I find it sad so many of our fans are determined to eliminate English players from our team. I can understand foreign fans not getting it or giving a brick, but our English fans? Saddens me a lot.

As for your back up team, no chance. We need a proper defensive cover for Sandro and Holtby certainly isn't it. I also don't think Bale will be shunted out wide, cutting in or not. Paulinho, if he comes in, will play alongside Dembele or Sandro in the middle and make late runs from deep. Bale will still play in the hole. The only other thing is whether AVB intends to play Bale as our main striker and then I guess Sandro, Dembele and Paulinho would work as a midfield but it's more industrious than exciting and certainly lacks a creative spark.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

there's 10 British players in the group of players Gutter Boy lists there :~

+ .5 if you include Holtby

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

there's 10.5 British players in the group of players Gutter Boy lists there

And he lists only one in the first team, wants to sell Defoe and Huddlestone and lists a few English back up players who unfortunately won't make the grade at a top six team even as a squad player.

We've had a nucleus of players, a core. Levy, Pleat, Arnesen and Jol all deserve credit for that. Ramos did his best to rip that apart, but Redknapp put it back together. I hope Baldini and AVB try and maintain it and don't turn us into a scummy foreign legion like what happened for a period of time at Chelsea (who ended up with an English core to be fair, but they don't seem keen on maintaining it) or Arsenal.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

seeings as we find it hard enough to compete in the transfer market as it is at this level - i think restricting ourselves to building a team based around an English core would mean any attempt at challenging for the top 4 would be over before it started.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

Yes, let's keep the inferior players and blame the coach instead when we fail to achieve anything.

Signed under Redknapp:

Defoe, Palacios, Cudicini, Chimbonda, Keane, Naughton, Walker, Crouch, Bassong, Kranjcar, Kaboul, Sandro, VDV, Khumalo, Pienaar, Gallas, Pletikosa, Friedel, Parker, Saha, Nelsen, Falque, Adebayor

5 out of 23 are British.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

seeings as we find it hard enough to compete in the transfer market as it is at this level - i think restricting ourselves to building a team based around an English core would mean any attempt at challenging for the top 4 would be over before it started.

I think selling half your English players capable of being first teamers is restricting. We already have a strong English core. We don't even need to add to it this off season, we just have to maintain it. Parker & Dawson especially are excellent professionals. Dawson and Vertonghen are out best two centre halves in my opinion, and whilst Parker isn't as good as Sandro he certainly is an excellent back up option and everything I've read about the man suggests he is an excellent positive influence in the dressing room.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

Yes, let's keep the inferior players and blame the coach instead when we fail to achieve anything.

Signed under Redknapp:

Defoe, Palacios, Cudicini, Chimbonda, Keane, Naughton, Walker, Crouch, Bassong, Kranjcar, Kaboul, Sandro, VDV, Khumalo, Pienaar, Gallas, Pletikosa, Friedel, Parker, Saha, Nelsen, Falque, Adebayor

5 out of 23 are British.

As stated above, it's not about BUYING British is it? It's about maintaining the level we have. With regards to specific players naturally you get the best you can get as long as its better than what you have. Out of all of Redknapp's signings Palacios was the best and most crucial under that set of circumstances, and he wasn't English, with Parker just behind him. The best actual player he purchased in terms of talent was VDV. Chimbonda and Keane were the most ludicrous purchases.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

who are these English first team players we are looking sell?

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

who are these English first team players we are looking sell?

I give up. Do people not actually read other people's posts on this forum? Or do they just skim? Or do they just intentionally spin brick to make their own point?

I didn't say they WERE first teamers. I said they were CAPABLE of being first teamers.
I didn't say we WERE looking to sell these players, I was responding directly to Gutterboys opinion of whom HE would get rid of (or who he believes we are going to get rid of) specifically Defoe, Huddlestone and Parker.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

We have Walker, Lennon and Bale. Nobody else is even close to being first choice. Parker and Dawson played because of injuries. Naughton, Carroll, Rose and similar are fine as squad players. I'd prefer less of the younger British players due their often chavvy lifestyles and love of partying. It's no coincidence what kind of players Fergie used to target for Man U. Solid professionals, with the occasional exception due to being exceptionally talented.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

Parker Defoe Huddelstone look like leaving

Walker Bale Lennon Dawson all look likely to be staying, all capable of playing in the first team at THFC

we have Rose, Townsend, Caulker and Naughton who have all had season long premiership loans, impressing with their respective clubs

we also have Tom Carroll who has shown himself to be a great prospect in the games in which he has played for the first team, albeit only a handful of games.

the words mountain and molehill come to mind

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

I hope you are very very wrong. One of the things that has really worked for us over the last few seasons is the togetherness of the squad, and I believe that is down to an English core of players. Rip that away and it would be to our detriment. Besides we are in English club and I find it sad so many of our fans are determined to eliminate English players from our team. I can understand foreign fans not getting it or giving a brick, but our English fans? Saddens me a lot.

As for your back up team, no chance. We need a proper defensive cover for Sandro and Holtby certainly isn't it. I also don't think Bale will be shunted out wide, cutting in or not. Paulinho, if he comes in, will play alongside Dembele or Sandro in the middle and make late runs from deep. Bale will still play in the hole. The only other thing is whether AVB intends to play Bale as our main striker and then I guess Sandro, Dembele and Paulinho would work as a midfield but it's more industrious than exciting and certainly lacks a creative spark.

The problem is that, because of the failure to overhaul the grassroots game, England currently has its worse generation of players since 1991-4, if not since the 70s. We can't be uncompetitive by keeping token overpriced English players.

As a club we are going about it the right way. We're developing young players with excellent technique - the likes of Carroll, Pritchard and Coulthirst.

What I've actually done in my proposals is clear out the has-beens (Parker and Defoe) and won't ever quite bes (Hudd and Livermore) to promote the likes of Carroll, Townsend and Smith into the first team squad proper. Similarly next summer we might be in a position to move on Dempsey and BAE because of the progress of Pritchard and Fryers.

In terms of our squad and the social dimension, I'll attach two photos which are very telling about past and current Spurs

 

[billyiddo]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

exactly - out with the older players who are losing value/are no longer likely to be involved as often in the first team and replace them with up and coming hungry prospects - i like the idea that with our focus on the technical aspects of the game at youth level we can start to produce players good enough ourselves without having to buy them in at a cost - our youth teams are performing well, regularly and the players in the 19-23 bracket who get loan experience, by and large impress with their new club - hope to see us try and make the most of what we are producing

 

[Jordinho]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

I want players that want to play football, to improve, to achieve things as a team, not the kind that just loves being footballers.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

I want players that want to play football, to improve, to achieve things as a team, not the kind that just loves being footballers.

Defo agree....... I would prefer mainly English players but who is out there????

As for Hudd - ankle injuries taken their toll - Parker solid professional but if we can get some cash id move him on - Defoe - just not gonna push us on.


who the hell is young English and not overpriced for the positions we need????

 

[Spursalot]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1

Parker Defoe Huddelstone look like leaving

Walker Bale Lennon Dawson all look likely to be staying, all capable of playing in the first team at THFC

we have Rose, Townsend, Caulker and Naughton who have all had season long premiership loans, impressing with their respective clubs

we also have Tom Carroll who has shown himself to be a great prospect in the games in which he has played for the first team, albeit only a handful of games.

the words mountain and molehill come to mind

Exactly. I find it odd when people worry about our lack of 'british' players. We have a vast number of British players who in the next year will likely play a decent number of games for us.


If we can bring British players through our own youth then so be it. If we can find a bargain on a talented player then so be it. However the majority of the time you are going to find better bargains in the rest of the world. Simply put, the rest of the world has a population far greater than Britain. I'd rather concentrate on players who want to be Spurs players, than concentrate on a nationality.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: R.i.p 4-2-3-1