AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

[Jordinho]

TOM HUDDLESTONE does not care if Luka Modric quits Spurs or not.

All Tottenham’s man mountain of a midfielder is interested in is winning back his first-team place.

Huddlestone, who was injured for nearly all of last season, is on course to be fit for Spurs’ Premier League opener at Saudi Sportswashing Machine on August 18 — and is being tipped to come in for wantaway Modric.

Huddlestone, 25, said: “Whether Luka stays or goes, I want to start.

“Whenever I’ve been fully fit at Tottenham, I’ve been in the team and I want that to continue.

“Luka’s a top player and I don’t know what his situation is. But I’m confident in my ability to play in a team with or without him.”

Andre Villas-Boas’ Spurs flew to Baltimore last night ahead of their US tour friendly against Liverpool on Saturday.

Huddlestone said: “Players who were maybe in the shadows before have now got a clean slate.

“And, to a certain extent, I am one of those players having missed so much of last season.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4453972/Tom-Huddlestone-targets-Luka-Modrics-Spurs-starting-spot.html

 

[NWND]

The one thing I really like about Townsend whenever I have seen him is his aggression. Not aggression in the Joey Barton scrape your studs down the back of someone's leg kind of aggression, but aggression in that as soon as he gets the ball there is only one thing in his mind = run at the full-back, take him on. He might get tackled 3 out of 5 times, but if you keep doing that over 90 minutes time and again you will create a lot of problems for a defence and those 2 out of 5 times will invariably create goal-scoring chances or half-chances.

I don't care how much 'natural ability' you have, electric pace coupled with raw aggression and eagerness equal a very dangerous player if you have a basic level of ability. I think with some coaching and the right chances, he could be a very good player for us.

 

[Kingdawson]

Not gonna say I told you so but........... I did tell you so that it wasn't a guarantee avb would play 433 only to be laughed at and cut down by gutter boy for not knowing avb

GB also said we'd definitely be buying a new sweeper keeper too so i wouldn't worry about it mate.

 

[Kingdawson]

Good call from you

personally i didnt know anything about the AVBs intimate feelings on formations until people started drawing things on here. i just knew what he did at chelsea

Good to see that people dont know first hand what the coach is going to do just because he did it in the past

I'm very happy about this. The amount of people that went on as if they were 100% certain what tactics and personnel AVB would play simply because he played it at Porto was staggering. People were using his porto formation as a template and were quick to dismiss or co sign potential targets simply because he had that sort of player at Porto. You suggest a tweak in the team and get met with a "AVB doesn't play like that" response. Suggest a player and it's "it won't work because that's not the type of player AVB usually goes for". It was a surreal to me.

Anyway i'm happy with what AVB has been saying so far so hopefully he can actually prove me wrong.

 

[metalgear]

Looking at AVB's comments, he's big on fitness:

“We haven’t stopped our training, and it’s been intensive training, so it was great to see a good, physical response.

“We look nice and sharp for a team that is only 15 days into the season. I think we have a lot of time to prepare, so it’s good to see them at this level.

“We created lots of chances in the second half and had more momentum in the game. That was good to see.
“We had opportunities to win the game, but building physically and as a team is what we’re looking for and in that sense I’m extremely pleased.”
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs/News/andre-pleased-with-progress-26072012.page


4-3-3, 4-4-2 ... perhaps it doesn't matter as much if all your players are fit and organized enough to cover every player on the pitch.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I was slightly worried that he didn't mention the problems with the ball over the top that we had repeatedly in the first half. Usually Jol or even Harry were pretty forthright with the weaknesses in a performance. I'm sure he's working on it, but it would have been nice to hear it acknowledged.

I managed to watch the game yesterday, and although it's only pre-season and doesn't actually matter, we were absolutely shocking defensively. If we were like that in the league, we would get ripped apart. There was also a time in the second half when a Galaxy player simply wandered into the gaping hole between our two centre backs, stood there for a good few seconds and neither one of ours realised this and covered him. It does need work.

 

[africanspurs]

I was slightly worried that he didn't mention the problems with the ball over the top that we had repeatedly in the first half. Usually Jol or even Harry were pretty forthright with the weaknesses in a performance. I'm sure he's working on it, but it would have been nice to hear it acknowledged.

I managed to watch the game yesterday, and although it's only pre-season and doesn't actually matter, we were absolutely shocking defensively. If we were like that in the league, we would get ripped apart. There was also a time in the second half when a Galaxy player simply wandered into the gaping hole between our two centre backs, stood there for a good few seconds and neither one of ours realised this and covered him. It does need work.

and as you can tell, you assumption that it was due to us being gung ho had very little to do with the defensive frailty . we just werent organised

 

[BrainOfLevy]

and as you can tell, you assumption that it was due to us being gung ho had very little to do with the defensive frailty . we just werent organised

I think the players maybe just didn't 'get it' totally yet. I'm sure they've had time getting it drilled into them, but every player on the team has to get it otherwise it looks bad. We were pressing high and holding a high line, but even doing that it shouldn't be that easy to knock a ball over the top, accurately to a player getting in behind us. If it was like that then the whole idea of tiki-taka, possession football and winning it back quickly would be dead. I think we were trying to do it, we just weren't doing it very well.

We were pressing in high zones, so maybe it's about the rest of the team learning where they need to be when the ball isn't in their area. It seemed like they weren't concentrating, or weren't used to having to deal with a ball played like that from that area...I'm not sure. But in the first half it didn't look good.

But I do maintain, if we are carrying it off well, we will look defensively solid. Once we 'get it', we should be dealing with those long balls over the top all day long and we shouldn't look as threatened as we did.

 

[milo]

I think the players maybe just didn't 'get it' totally yet. I'm sure they've had time getting it drilled into them, but every player on the team has to get it otherwise it looks bad. We were pressing high and holding a high line, but even doing that it shouldn't be that easy to knock a ball over the top, accurately to a player getting in behind us. If it was like that then the whole idea of tiki-taka, possession football and winning it back quickly would be dead. I think we were trying to do it, we just weren't doing it very well.

We were pressing in high zones, so maybe it's about the rest of the team learning where they need to be when the ball isn't in their area. It seemed like they weren't concentrating, or weren't used to having to deal with a ball played like that from that area...I'm not sure. But in the first half it didn't look good.

But I do maintain, if we are carrying it off well, we will look defensively solid. Once we 'get it', we should be dealing with those long balls over the top all day long and we shouldn't look as threatened as we did.

I think that you are reading too much into it. It was the first game of pre-season and the players primary focus will be on building up match fitness and not picking up any injuries. That almost inevitably means that games will be slower, there will be more space and players will not chase things down like they would in a competitive game. This is one of the reasons why youth players often look better in pre-season than they really are, everyone else is only putting in 60% whilst they have a point to prove.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think that you are reading too much into it. It was the first game of pre-season and the players primary focus will be on building up match fitness and not picking up any injuries. That almost inevitably means that games will be slower, there will be more space and players will not chase things down like they would in a competitive game. This is one of the reasons why youth players often look better in pre-season than they really are, everyone else is only putting in 60% whilst they have a point to prove.

I know, I'm trying not to read too much into it as it is only pre-season, and I mentioned previously that I think it was a lot to do with them looking like they were pressing, but that if they aren't doing it well, the rest of the team suffers in all positions. AVB also seems happy with the night's work and although I wouldn't expect him to completely slag off a pre-season performance he does seem to have taken some positives out if it.

I'm sure when our players are pressing as hard as they can we will look a lot better. It just did look really bad though, that first half in particular.

 

[milo]

I know, I'm trying not to read too much into it as it is only pre-season, and I mentioned previously that I think it was a lot to do with them looking like they were pressing, but that if they aren't doing it well, the rest of the team suffers in all positions. AVB also seems happy with the night's work and although I wouldn't expect him to completely slag off a pre-season performance he does seem to have taken some positives out if it.

I'm sure when our players are pressing as hard as they can we will look a lot better. It just did look really bad though, that first half in particular.

Pressing when players are only playing at 60% is always going to look bad.

I'd be really worried if AVB had criticised the players after a pre-season friendly. If there are lessons that he thinks the team need to learn, then that should be kept to the training ground.

 

[F10]

Pre-season =/= Season

Relax...if its something a pre-season has taught me, it is that you can't predict how the season will go based on PS results.

Legs are heavy and mentality different

 

[Armchair Expert]

Pre-season =/= Season

Relax...if its something a pre-season has taught me, it is that you can't predict how the season will go based on PS results.

Legs are heavy and mentality different

Exactly, like when we beat Roma 17 - 0 and Bentley scored 11. We all know how the beginning of that season worked out......

 

[NWND]

Freidel - keeper (instructed to throw/pass short to Vertonghen or the full-backs if possible)
Vertonghen - ball playing centreback (comes short to receive the ball off the keeper, knocks it short into midfield or spreads play out to the full-backs or carries forward himself if space opens up infront of him)
Kaboul/Dawson (stoppers - destroy everything and knock if short to vertonghen or deeper midfielders)
Walker/BAE/Naughton (both fullbacks come short to receive when keeper has the ball but start pushing forward if Vertonghen or Hudd gets the ball)
Hudd - "quarterback"/deep playmaker (comes short to receive off the keeper potentially or make options for Vertonghen or full-backs to pass short to pass short to. If Vertonghen or the full backs push forward can play-one-two off them or switch play out to the wingers in the front 3 if its on.
Parker/Sandro - midfield destroyers (job is to win the ball back, keep the pressing game going out of possession and knock the ball short once one to a ball-player to keep the play ticking over
VDV/Sigurdsson - attacking midfielder (involve themselves in build-up play, play short passes and choose the moment to get into the box. play one-twos off the striker and lay it off to them or receive cut-backs from the 2 wide players. Help in midfield pressing game when don't have the ball (Sigurdsson more ideal for this part of the job probably)
Bale/Lennon - wide-men (but as part of a front 3 they should play closer to the striker in this position and combine with the full-backs to play one-twos. Cut-backs along the ground into the box should be the order of the day rather than the traditional cross. They can both play this way, we saw infact one of my favourite goals from last season against QPR at home when Bale played a 1-2 with Lennon before ripping the net off. Its all about instructions and training.
Defoe - scorer (plain and simple - your job is to get on the end of cut-backs and one-twos and just fire it at the goal. End of.

On a tactics board this team may look like this:

...........................................Freidel
..................................................Vertonghen
............................Kaboul
Walker......................................................................BAE
..................................Thudd
........................................Parker/Sandro
...................Sig/VDV
.............Lennon...............................Bale
................................Defoe

So I honestly think with the right application that team could work brilliantly and therefore its understandable that AVB doesn't necessarily see a mad panic for reinforcements - he needs to decide exactly how he would like to play with the players available first of all.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

I agree except two things. Defoe isn't the right player for that lone striker in the slightest. Also, I love hudd, I really do. But I feel we need more of a modric type in there to bridge the gap between defence and attack more, hudd is a good option. But shouldn't be our main one. But yeah, this isn't as much of a priority as strikers. At least we actually have modfielders...

 

[Jordinho]

I agree except two things. Defoe isn't the right player for that lone striker in the slightest. Also, I love hudd, I really do. But I feel we need more of a modric type in there to bridge the gap between defence and attack more, hudd is a good option. But shouldn't be our main one. But yeah, this isn't as much of a priority as strikers. At least we actually have modfielders...

Freudian slip?

 

[rosenthal]

Exactly, like when we beat Roma 17 - 0 and Bentley scored 11. We all know how the beginning of that season worked out......

I'm getting more and more annoyed that people bring out the Roma pre season as an example for why results in pre season have no effect on the acctual season.
We had a great pre season and demolished Roma, we played 4231 (which was the modern favourite of that time), Giovani had a role in the system and shined, Bentley looked settled and amazing.
What happened when the Premier League season kicked off? Well, we changed to 442 (most likely to accomodate a mediocre big name striker, though I can't really recall) and looked a mess. Gio had no position anymore, Bentley was lost, and Bent not played to his strenghts.
Perfect example of worst possible pre season, not preparing the team for how they are acctually going to play when it get serious.
I hope Villas-Boas doesn't go into the same trap, cause you could see it happening with him letting the team ease in with a more familiar formation rather than his prefered 433 / 343 system.
Crossing my fingers that he doesn't decide the time to switch formation is the final training session of the pre season.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I'm getting more and more annoyed that people bring out the Roma pre season as an example for why results in pre season have no effect on the acctual season.
We had a great pre season and demolished Roma, we played 4231 (which was the modern favourite of that time), Giovani had a role in the system and shined, Bentley looked settled and amazing.
What happened when the Premier League season kicked off? Well, we changed to 442 (most likely to accomodate a mediocre big name striker, though I can't really recall) and looked a mess. Gio had no position anymore, Bentley was lost, and Bent not played to his strenghts.
Perfect example of worst possible pre season, not preparing the team for how they are acctually going to play when it get serious.
I hope Villas-Boas doesn't go into the same trap, cause you could see it happening with him letting the team ease in with a more familiar formation rather than his prefered 433 / 343 system.
Crossing my fingers that he doesn't decide the time to switch formation is the final training session of the pre season.

Didn't we play at Norwich that year and demolish them 5-1 in the summer? I remember being that for that, we looked tasty.

I then remember being at the Villa home game and we looked absolutely awful. Berbatov had gone but we looked absolutely hopeless. Bentley started on the bench but Modric came off injured so Bentley took his place on the left, but Gareth Barry completely dingdonged on us. We had no rhyme or reason, it was just terrible. *Shudders*

Seems like AVB has us playing somewhat to the plan he is going to use though, so that's good.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I'm getting more and more annoyed that people bring out the Roma pre season as an example for why results in pre season have no effect on the acctual season.
We had a great pre season and demolished Roma, we played 4231 (which was the modern favourite of that time), Giovani had a role in the system and shined, Bentley looked settled and amazing.
What happened when the Premier League season kicked off? Well, we changed to 442 (most likely to accomodate a mediocre big name striker, though I can't really recall) and looked a mess. Gio had no position anymore, Bentley was lost, and Bent not played to his strenghts.
Perfect example of worst possible pre season, not preparing the team for how they are acctually going to play when it get serious.
I hope Villas-Boas doesn't go into the same trap, cause you could see it happening with him letting the team ease in with a more familiar formation rather than his prefered 433 / 343 system.
Crossing my fingers that he doesn't decide the time to switch formation is the final training session of the pre season.

I pretty much can't agree with any of that. Pre-Season football is required for players to get their touch and footballing head on, but it's not a barometer of form. Roma, for example, were some weeks behind us in preperation. And we played with Berbatov/Bent up front so we definitely didn't play with a lone striker when we demolished Roma IIRC.

I first realised pre-season results weren't worth paying attention to in the 90's. I hate Liverpool, absolutely fudging despise them. And I was taken great glee in winding up my Liverpool supporting mate because Liverpool were having a poor pre-season. Spurs in contrast were having a fine pre-season. You can guess what happened at the beginning of the season. 8 games in, Liverpool have won 6 out of 8, Spurs only 2 out of 8 ](*,)

Sadly I can remember having heated debates with a poster on here, can't remember who, during that Ramos Pre-Season. He was going mental about how brilliant we were and yet even in the high scoring games I had watched I didn't think we were playing that well and I kept telling him that pre-season means nothing as some teams don't even go in for 50/50's to reduce injuries. Dribblers and attacking players always look better in pre-season as a result. He wouldn't listen and next thing we know it's 2pts from 8 games. And what made it worse is that the 8 games (other than Chelsea away which we actually drew!) weren't exactly tough.

 

[Rorschach]

I pretty much can't agree with any of that. Pre-Season football is required for players to get their touch and footballing head on, but it's not a barometer of form. Roma, for example, were some weeks behind us in preperation. And we played with Berbatov/Bent up front so we definitely didn't play with a lone striker when we demolished Roma IIRC.

I first realised pre-season results weren't worth paying attention to in the 90's. I hate Liverpool, absolutely fudging despise them. And I was taken great glee in winding up my Liverpool supporting mate because Liverpool were having a poor pre-season. Spurs in contrast were having a fine pre-season. You can guess what happened at the beginning of the season. 8 games in, Liverpool have won 6 out of 8, Spurs only 2 out of 8 ](*,)

Sadly I can remember having heated debates with a poster on here, can't remember who, during that Ramos Pre-Season. He was going mental about how brilliant we were and yet even in the high scoring games I had watched I didn't think we were playing that well and I kept telling him that pre-season means nothing as some teams don't even go in for 50/50's to reduce injuries. Dribblers and attacking players always look better in pre-season as a result. He wouldn't listen and next thing we know it's 2pts from 8 games. And what made it worse is that the 8 games (other than Chelsea away which we actually drew!) weren't exactly tough.

Harry is that you? You sly dog pretending you couldn't write.