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AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

glorygloryeze said:
I actually think losing Rafa would be more devestating than losing Modric.....i'm glad that it seems he's staying [-o<
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haha you're going to start a mini-thread in this thread that statement dude...but while I do agree with you, I'm still going to miss the little wizard (if/when he goes) !

[video=youtube;RG_CiVDCqV8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG_CiVDCqV8&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]

edit: i looked up that fantastic soundtrack, turns out it by pop piano performer Maksim with a piece titled "Croation Rhapsody"!
 
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Richie said:
Some ITK for you all:

A friend of mine is a strength and conditioning coach at a top rugby club and so knows people in the industry. Someone he knows had got a job as an intern at Spurs but it was cancelled when AVB took over, apparently he doesn't take much interest in Sports Science. Interesting, since Mourinho is well known to place a lot of emphasis on it.
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Could it not just be that AVB wants to bring in his own people, or that he will let his fitness coaches bring in the people they want instead of relying on some intern neither of them know?
 
Rorschach said:
That's close enough.

I read the whole interview and he was the only player he called out. To me that sounds like he realises how much VDV is worth to the team and he has/will put his faith in him. That's my take on it anyway.
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He was probably asked directly about VDV. There are also some interesting quotes about how he doesn't like to talk about individual players in the media, be it praise or criticism.
 
Andre Villas-Boas hits out at Chelsea

Tottenham boss Andre Villas-Boas has criticised former club Chelsea but says he is not out for revenge against them.

Villas-Boas took over at Chelsea in June 2011 and was sacked in March 2012.

"Words did not meet the actions of what we were doing [at Chelsea] in terms of the project, so I think I was cut short," he said.

"This club [Tottenham] is much more important than me and what I have to do is try to take them to success and not make it a personal issue."

Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich replaced Villas-Boas with Roberto Di Matteo in March and the Blues went on to win the Champions League and FA Cup.

But Villas-Boas, 35, who took over as Spurs boss this summer following the dismissal of predecessor Harry Redknapp, pointed out differences in characteristics between Tottenham and Chelsea.

"I met the [Spurs] chairman [Daniel Levy], and saw the way he goes about his business at the club," said the Portuguese.

"He knows what he is doing, approaching the market in a different way. He is a person of great football understanding and he had the effect of giving me the assurances I wanted in terms of building something.

"Tottenham are linked with great football in the past. It is something they have always valued highly. There is a wonderful history of attractive football, and Bill Nicholson left these messages of football well played and doing things in style, which is what I want to achieve as well.

"The structures that surround Tottenham are extremely good. There are competent people in and around the football club. The club is driven towards success, and everybody knows they must play a part in achieving that success.

"They are not looking for certain spacegoats, and when so many people are striving forward, it makes your job easier."

Tottenham playmaker Rafael van der Vaart has been linked with leaving White Hart Lane but Villas-Boas insists he wants to keep the Dutch international.

"With Van der Vaart, at the moment I am absolutely counting on him," he said.

"It is a totally different situation from Luka [Modric], who has been chased by different clubs in the past two seasons and is continuing to drag interest.

"We have to make sure the club's interests are met and it is up to the chairman to decide that."
 
So it's interesting that we lined up in a 4-2-3-1 under AVB as opposed to a 4-3-3, I wonder whether this was simply because the players we had at our disposal didn't suit a 4-3-3 or whether he will stick like this for his first season.

And I wonder if we will be as successful in a 4-2-3-1 as we could be in a 4-3-3 under him? Will we still play the way he wants?

To be fair it seems like you can still play a possession based pressing game in a 4-2-3-1, like we did against Swansea last season, and our squad is just more suited to it. If we were to go 4-3-3, I pretty much couldn't see where guys like Lennon, Rafa and Parker fit in. But now, obviously they can.

The defence is as it was, and the for the holding options we have Modric/Replacement, Huddlestone, Sandro, Parker, Jenas, Livermore, Carroll. In the hole we have Siggy and Rafa. On the right we have Lennon but probably need someone to back him up, and on the left we have Bale and possibly Townsend. Upfront Ade, plus one other and Kane/Soulman.

I must admit I would have been interested to see us in a 4-3-3, although it's nice that key players who aren't exactly past their sell by date with us still have a role to play. It's also good that AVB isn't making changes too fast if the squad can't get to grips with it, although I hope the Chelsea experience hasn't burned him and left him fearful of making changes that may need to be made at some point if we are going to progress and play the way he wants.
 
I think people have been fixating way too much on AVB's supposed adherence to a given system. I thought one of the things about him was that he was practical and liked to fix a system around the strengths of his players rather than any pre-conceived or ideological commitment to a particular system.
 
I wouldnt read too much in to early friendlies mate - they're more about match fitness id say, keep the tactics fairly simple and see what their natural game is. Will probably put more focus on the game plan as the summer progresses
 
chancer said:
I think people have been fixating way too much on AVB's supposed adherence to a given system. I thought one of the things about him was that he was practical and liked to fix a system around the strengths of his players rather than any pre-conceived or ideological commitment to a particular system.
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Yeah that's fair, I was pretty sure we'd get into a 4-3-3 and just bring the players in to do it, seems AVB is going to take his time if we are going to get towards that, or maybe he'll be content playing what he did last night. Or maybe last night means nothing at all.

I guess since he tried to play as he did at Porto with Chelsea, and that we are more suited to it than Chelsea was, I thought he would try to do it here too. Guess I was wrong.
 
The main difference between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 is the deployment of the central midfield triangle. In the Mourinho style 4-3-3, which is considered the classic now, you have one player sitting and two players advanced, in the 4-2-3-1 you have two at the base of the triangle and one further forward.

In our 4-2-3-1 the triangle is skewed, with one player deep (Parker), Modric slightly advanced on the left and another further forward (RvdV). That shape is not so different to AVB's system as depicted in those diagrams earlier. The main change with AVB's system would be in how the forward wide players are deployed and we tend to be a bit inconsistent there.
 
Is it?

A 433 with two DMs and one with one DM and two attackers are both 433, but completely different depoyments of it.

Mourinhos wasnt one sitting and two advanced IMO. It was one sitting, one advanced and one B2B trying to tie the two together.

What is so different between these in practice?

433

.......Sandro.......Modric
.............Sigurdsson
Lennon.......................Bale
...............Adebayor

4231

.......Sandro.......Modric
Lennon......Sigurdsson......Bale
...............Adebayor
?

Basically you can play the same formation two completely different ways, and different formations (on paper) the same way!
 
What is so different between these in practice?

Nothing. That's essentially my point about how the midfield triangle is deployed. I'd differ with you in saying that in current usage the first wouldn't normally be referred to as a 4-3-3 and it would be drawn as and referred to as a 4-2-3-1. The modern convention is to think of a Makelele in the 4-3-3, but as you say it needn't be.

I agree totally that the same formation can be played in totally different ways. The formations above with two wingers are very different from when played with an inside forward type (RvdV, Kuyt) or a midfielder (Modric) in the wide positions. The wingers will often be as advanced as the central forward. With us the most advanced player in the average position maps would usually be Bale or Lennon.
 
Point being - arguing/worrying about playing a 4231 at Stevenage seems a little premature to me, especially as the differences between formations can be so mild.
 
I miss the old times :(

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