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AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

Pirate55 said:
Why cant harry see what is plain as day for the rest of us?
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because you lot are clueless, but enthusiastic amateurs, and he is a professional manager who has played the game and managed sides (in the top league in this country) since the 60's

and in all probability, you lot are probably talking out of your collective fundaments - more than likely for a raft of reasons that you don't have the wit, experience, nous or ability to appreciate.

But hey, don't let that little fact stop y'all from curing the worlds problems.

I wonder what some of you lot would do, if you heard some loudmouth talking tosh about - your job, say - and passing off erroneous opinions, as if they were facts?
Yet you all do it here, as if you had a divine right to do so, and that the man himself is a complete waster, because he doesn't take your advice.

Funny old world, isn't it?
 
Do you think that managers never get it wrong? Just how extreme would a decision from Harry have to be before you think to yourself "Wait a minute :-k"? How about if we lined up with Modric at left back and Lennon at CB alongside VDV? Is it a coincidence that multiple posters were fearful when the Everton lineup was announced? Or are we supposed to just stay silent because Harry's a football manager and we're not? Is there actually any point to this forum if we cannot question anything that happens at the club?
 
Rossi22 said:
Do you think that managers never get it wrong? Just how extreme would a decision from Harry have to be before you think to yourself "Wait a minute :-k"? How about if we lined up with Modric at left back and Lennon at CB alongside VDV? Is it a coincidence that multiple posters were fearful when the Everton lineup was announced? Or are we supposed to just stay silent because Harry's a football manager and we're not? Is there actually any point to this forum if we cannot question anything that happens at the club?
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dID YOU JUST REPRINT SCARA'S POST FROM EARLIER?

oops - sorry.

is it a coincidence that multiple people with no professional knowledge of the game get all excited because they don't see their favourite player, so they dress their complaints up as constructive criticism - no its not, its just a sheep instinct laid out on the internet.

Fearful, what do you have to be scared about? Did anyone die? did you get a disease?

Did Harrys selection of Bale on the right make the ball go in?

Did we just dominate the game and get unlucky not to come away with at least a draw? Noooooo, we just showed the world that our manager is a clown and that Gutterboy and his acolytes can go into self righteous meltdown when Harry doesn't pick their favourite team and formation.

You know its just a sport, and not something that affects your life, health or sanity - don't you?

as for managers getting it wrong, list all ofthe managers from Bill Nicholson onwards, and then ask me again whether I think managers never get things wrong.

Because so far HR has all of that list trailing in his wake for results.
 
Rossi22 said:
The only backup players we have that could play week in week out for a top 4 club imo are Sandro and Gallas(if he could stay fit), possibly Dawson. We have decent enough backup players but unless you're City you can't have a squad made of two top 4 sides. It's still far more favourable to bring a backup player in for an injured player than it is to shuffle the rest of the team around as you end up weakening multiple positions rather than just the one, as we saw on Saturday.
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This.
 
mick cooper said:
dID YOU JUST REPRINT SCARA'S POST FROM EARLIER?

oops - sorry.

is it a coincidence that multiple people with no professional knowledge of the game get all excited because they don't see their favourite player, so they dress their complaints up as constructive criticism - no its not, its just a sheep instinct laid out on the internet.

Fearful, what do you have to be scared about? Did anyone die? did you get a disease?

Did Harrys selection of Bale on the right make the ball go in?

Did we just dominate the game and get unlucky not to come away with at least a draw? Noooooo, we just showed the world that our manager is a clown and that Gutterboy and his acolytes can go into self righteous meltdown when Harry doesn't pick their favourite team and formation.

You know its just a sport, and not something that affects your life, health or sanity - don't you?

as for managers getting it wrong, list all ofthe managers from Bill Nicholson onwards, and then ask me again whether I think managers never get things wrong.

Because so far HR has all of that list trailing in his wake for results.
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I didn't see Scara's post no.

My Favourite player is Ekotto, he played so nope that couldn't have been it. Perhaps it was our two best and most influential players playing in positions that they've previously shown they're a fraction of the player in? Did Bale playing on the right make us concede? Well you put him on the left or change any tiny component in a game and it changes everything so who knows, but what I do know is that we'd have had a far better chance making the ball go in their net, or even getting anywhere near their goal if our best players were playing in their rightful positions. You also can't tell me how much I should care about something, I'll let it effect me as much as I want thanks.

As for us dominating, no I don't agree with that either. I think you've just lapped up Harrys "honest guv, we battered 'em" line. Everton controlled the 1st half, 2nd half all they had to do was sit back and protect the lead. We had a lot of possession in non-threatening areas of the pitch and it wasn't until the 94th minute that we actually created a real chance of any note.
 
Surely debating tactics and line-ups and 'what-if' scenarios is a large part of any football forum?

The majority of people were before and are now in agreement that we should have lined up with Bale left, Modric central and 'anyone' wide right.

Somebody recently suggested Livermore to play wide right, which seems a good shout given the options - I hadn't considered that so that's something interesting to come out of the debate.

But that doesn't mean people hate Harry and consider him to be an idiot and that they know best about all things - just that on this issue, he might be wrong.
 
mick cooper said:
because you lot are clueless, but enthusiastic amateurs, and he is a professional manager who has played the game and managed sides (in the top league in this country) since the 60's

and in all probability, you lot are probably talking out of your collective fundaments - more than likely for a raft of reasons that you don't have the wit, experience, nous or ability to appreciate.

But hey, don't let that little fact stop y'all from curing the worlds problems.

I wonder what some of you lot would do, if you heard some loudmouth talking tosh about - your job, say - and passing off erroneous opinions, as if they were facts?
Yet you all do it here, as if you had a divine right to do so, and that the man himself is a complete waster, because he doesn't take your advice.

Funny old world, isn't it?
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What are you old man?
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
Only because as you rightly point out City tweak too much too. If Utd kept a settled side they'd be miles clear.
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Doubt it, they would be burnt out the amount of games they'd have to play. I reckon saf knows how to juggle his squad by now, the experience he gets doing it winning the league and odd double each season.
 
Rossi22 said:
I didn't see Scara's post no.

My Favourite player is Ekotto, he played so nope that couldn't have been it. Perhaps it was our two best and most influential players playing in positions that they've previously shown they're a fraction of the player in? Did Bale playing on the right make us concede? Well you put him on the left or change any tiny component in a game and it changes everything so who knows, but what I do know is that we'd have had a far better chance making the ball go in their net, or even getting anywhere near their goal if our best players were playing in their rightful positions. You also can't tell me how much I should care about something, I'll let it effect me as much as I want thanks.

As for us dominating, no I don't agree with that either. I think you've just lapped up Harrys "honest guv, we battered 'em" line. Everton controlled the 1st half, 2nd half all they had to do was sit back and protect the lead. We had a lot of possession in non-threatening areas of the pitch and it wasn't until the 94th minute that we actually created a real chance of any note.
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I wasn't telling you to do anything, so don't be so bloody prickly.

We had a large amount of possession and penned Everton back in a way that no-one has ever done to us at home this season - for almost all of the second half, and you signally fail to recognise that they are not a team of mugs, and they are managed by a man who has "obdurate defence" written on his heart and soul. Would you only be satisfied if we had spent the entire second half on the edge of their 6 yard box? I would have said that spending it camped in their half was pretty bloody threatening.

I don't lap anybodies media sound bites up sunshine, I just use my eyes and years of watching and playing football to tell me who was doing what on the pitch, you can get as tumescent as you like over opta stats, but I know what I saw, and I saw a team who made the best of the chances they had with a well taken goal, and then could do fudge all but re-enact the defence of the Alamo, even against people not in your favourite starting positions. We mixed it up and changed people around, but nothing came off. I'll bet Everton really had the lets sit back and defend a one goal lead as their first choice strategy as well.

And that my friend, is football. Unless you have a sheikh or a Russian thief you make the best with the team that you can afford, and thats what we did with them that was not on the dead and dying list, or those that could struggle to their feet for a 15 minute hurrah.
 
Hotspur said:
What are you old man?
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Your elder and better, you cheeky puppy

and one of the same band of clueless enthusiastic amateurs, the difference being that I don't wander around in some delusional state thinking that I know better than the manager of the third best football team in the toughest league on the planet

I don't agree with everything he does, but I refuse to sit on a public forum and spout off about how I know better than him.

I wish he would take Bale to one side and tell the silly fudger to stick to what he's good at, and stay on the left, but I guess he's trying to manage Bales expectations, and not have him knob off to Real Madrid, where he will become a Bernabeu bench warmer

I would have played Sandro and Livermore as well, as I think Parker has gone stale

I would also have had Krancjar hoovering out the team bus
 
mick cooper said:
Your elder and better, you cheeky puppy

and one of the same band of clueless enthusiastic amateurs, the difference being that I don't wander around in some delusional state thinking that I know better than the manager of the third best football team in the toughest league on the planet

I don't agree with everything he does, but I refuse to sit on a public forum and spout off about how I know better than him.

I wish he would take Bale to one side and tell the silly fudger to stick to what he's good at, and stay on the left, but I guess he's trying to manage Bales expectations, and not have him knob off to Real Madrid, where he will become a Bernabeu bench warmer

I would have played Sandro and Livermore as well, as I think Parker has gone stale

I would also have had Krancjar hoovering out the team bus
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Hmmm...that's an interesting suggestion. Parker has looked MUCH less effective recently than at the start of the season. I think he needs a rest
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
Football Manager land, changing the team or system every game dependant on the opposition and what does that cause in real life? Inconsistant performance and erratic results. Just like the last few games we've played where we chop and change so much.
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Fergie's been chopping and changing for 25 years now

Done alright
 
This thread reminds me not all hope is lost yet.

Van der Vaart is probably staring at the league table, burning Arsenal badges right now at home whilst throwing darts at his dartboard with a photo of Arsene Wenger stuck to it.

VDV hates the scum, and when he comes back for the run-in, he's going to try and replicate that purple patch he had earlier in the season again.
 
VdV as captain is interesting but experiences are not conclusive.

Both as Ajax and HSV captain he experienced his absolute peak periods of form of his career so far, BUT it's a question of correlation rather than causalty perhaps - Was he excellent because of an armband or was he given the armband because he was excellent ?

In the period with Ajax he played mostly as either false #9 in a 433 or 343 or as the point of a 3 or 4 man midfield in 443 or 343, a # 10. While not suprisingly back in those Ajax teams and with the poor defending in the Dutch league he was awesome as a #10, perhaps his stitches as a false # 9 (a role working very well for Siem de Jong right now) he was suprisingly good, throwing himself into tackles, rattling big defenders and stuff. This period however was perhaps also due to the burst of pace he had then, which looks completely gone after his injuries.

In the period with HSV he played as a # 10 in a 4-4-2 in a kind of diamond mostly. Here he was more the player we know today. But he was very tenacious back then and reminded no little of Paul Scholes with a twist of Gazza (the slight extrovert madness and willingness to take defenders on on his own).

I don't know if he should be captain. He certainly didn't own it quite yet, IMHO. King is my captain every day of the week. On the other hand players like Modric and others aren't doing a visibly good job.

At the end of the day, the captaincy is a bit overrated. IMHO it's more about player blend and getting in more Scott Parker's and getting rid of more timid players.
 
Pressure from the front

Don't usually like to start a tactical debate when there are a few knocking about but feel this is worthy of discussion.

Much has been made of the formations. Much has been made of the players' abilities. For me we have forgotten how to work collectively as a unit.

Parker was supreme as he charged into challenges closing down space. But he was ably assisted by all those around him, pressure from one man is nothing. An entire team pressing all over the park is unplayable.

We were so pedestrian and predictable yesterday it was alarming. I felt Pulis knew we like to play from the back and therefore played the three of Walters, Crouch and Jerome, knowing they would work their socks off, make us lump it long and won it back through WIlkinson, Huth and Shawcross.

I remember games where Ade would charge players down from the front, Parker and Modric quickly snapping in behind, I want to see Bale and when Azza returns, doing the same thing. Don't let the opposition settle for a second. We are a pacy side, lets get back to that. Lets push up high knowing we can recover.

Against Chelsea I'd like us to use Ade, Lennon and Bale as a front 3.

-------------------↑-------------------
---------------Adebayor---------------
-----↑----------------------------↑-----
---Bale------------------------Lennon--
-------------↑-----------↑----------------
----------Modric------Parker------------

Let's not let them settle. Barca press in waves too. Relentless, one after the other. It doesn't expend a massive amount of energy because they do it as a collective.

I really feel we are just allowing teams to play. And they are playing right through us.

If the game is played around the oppostion box we will eventually get our fair share of luck in terms of goals.
 
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