AVB - I want him out now!

[scaramanga]

This thread makes Darwin sad.

Will those of you having a sensible tactical discussion please take it over to the other AVB thread and let this one die the fiery, natural selection defying death it deserves?

Thanks.

 

[braineclipse]

This thread makes Darwin sad.

Will those of you having a sensible tactical discussion please take it over to the other AVB thread and let this one die the fiery, natural selection defying death it deserves?

Thanks.

=D>

 

[NWND]

depends where you're looking and the time frame you allow. our defense has improved, our ability to control games has improved - our attacking play has faltered - you've said yourself we're not playing our attacking talents at the moment - so maybe there's a very clear reason for you as to why this could be the case - would it not be wise to see if things change as and when they come in to the fold?

But we are playing attacking talents, just not all of them, regularly.

A few questions based on the current talents that are normally making up our front 4 positions:

1) Why did Townsend look so much better for England than he has done for Spurs? Especially in his final 3rd decision making, willingness to pass/cross and his shooting?
2) Why does Holtby look a shadow of the creative/goal-scoring force he was at Schalke and if anything doesn't look creative, or like scoring at all?
3) Why does Soldado look so poor, compared to his exploits at Valencia, even when he (rarely) gets provided with service?
4) Why even play Lennon on the left at all? Why? I mean please tell me? When has this ever worked, or even looked like it might work, or even been a possibility in someone's mind?
5) Sigurdsson - I like him, he's done well, but then gets dropped for little reason. He never gets a shot in his favoured position of the hole that often either.
6) Dembele alongside Sandro looks really good and allows Dembele the freedom to drive forward, but we've never played the two together this season? Why?
7) Paulinho - he started off really well but has gone badly off the ball. He needs a rest to me, but he keeps getting run into the ground? Why?

So we are playing enough attacking talents in my view to play very good attacking football, but weird decisions, formations, tactics and other things are clearly hindering them. And when Eriksen and Lamela have come into the team (Lamela's performance against Sheriff and Eriksen's against Norwich apart), they have looked as lost as the players that were in there in the first place.

Simple things could be done to improve things considerably in my view, such as switching Townsend to the left to give us some natural width on that side in the absence of Rose, and telling him to fire balls across goal for Soldado, working on Soldado's runs to match those balls. I'd give Eriksen an extended run in the side in the hole and Lamela an extended run on the right. I'd play Dembele with Sandro and give Paulinho a rest.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

NWND, of course some other manager would have us scoring more goals right now. We would have scored more goals under Harry. We would have scored more goals under Ian Holloway. To be honest, we probably would have scored more goals under Tony Pulis. But that's not the point is it. We are ao obviously trying to build something, and so obviously have a particular problem, that I think it's clear that once it clicks we will be ok. Football is littered with examples of teams taking time to gel, but also of teams having patches of good and bad form. A few weeks ago Saudi Sportswashing Machine lost at home to Hull, now they have beat Spurs and Chelsea in successive matches. I'm sure ther fans couldn't see how it would get better, but it did. You simply have to wait.

DMac, the point on Potchettino is a good one, but I don think it is as simple as saying that because they are doing something we are not, that our coaching must be bad. AVB rates Potchettino, and praised his work last season for making them 'very identifiable in their football'. I am 1000% sure that AVB has as much coaching knowledge as MP does and knows what movements need to be made on the pitch, but we are trying to achieve something different to Southampton. The style is similar in a way but we are starting from a different position to them in terms of club stature, which affects how opposition teams treat us and increases the pressure on us to get results, where as they have a bit more freedom to take risks. We are also trying to acclimatise the majority of our attacking players into a new team and get them working together, where as their attacking players are more familiar. Southampton will hit a bad patch this season too though.

If we see no improvement towards the end of the season, to at least show that we are trying to get somewhere close to fluid football in an attacking sense, then I think AVB will have failed. But the point has already been made that the reset button should have been pressed once we sold our best player and signed 7 others from other countries.

There was another point made, that Wenger doesn't have any trouble implementing major squad changes every year and getting them to play winning, attacking football. And that football is as easy as letting the attacking players play. This is one of the most stupidest points in the thread. Ignoring for a second that if we were 'letting the attacking players play' and not getting results, these same people would probably moan that we don't have enough of a structure or plan, such is the life of a football supporter. But are we completely forgetting the fact that when Arsenal did lose their best players in the previous 2 seasons, Wenger's commitment to 'the Arsenal way' had them losing 8-2 at Old Trafford and absolutely disastrous starts. But he persevered and he got them playing good, winning football eventually.

The difference is though, Wenger can persist with his 'way' even when assimilating new players because he is Arsene Wenger, a legend at that club and with unwavering trust of the board. For AVB, he has to generate results and keep us competitive before getting us playing winning, exciting football because if we are too open and drop points, the squad loses confidence in him and the club loses faith. But if we want to get to where we want to go, then we persevere in our own way.

It is telling that the squad is still behind the manager. It means they buy in to what he is trying to acheive. If it simply was a case of boring football (which I completely agree it looks like that now) but with no sign of improvement, then the players would not back him.

 

[Ganter]

He's managed to numb and suck my enjoyment out of watching Spurs.

Hoddle, Santini, Jol, Ramos, Redknapp...
!

:ross: :ross: :ross: :ross:

 

[DMac]

But we are playing attacking talents, just not all of them, regularly.

A few questions based on the current talents that are normally making up our front 4 positions:

1) Why did Townsend look so much better for England than he has done for Spurs? Especially in his final 3rd decision making, willingness to pass/cross and his shooting?
2) Why does Holtby look a shadow of the creative/goal-scoring force he was at Schalke and if anything doesn't look creative, or like scoring at all?
3) Why does Soldado look so poor, compared to his exploits at Valencia, even when he (rarely) gets provided with service?
4) Why even play Lennon on the left at all? Why? I mean please tell me? When has this ever worked, or even looked like it might work, or even been a possibility in someone's mind?
5) Sigurdsson - I like him, he's done well, but then gets dropped for little reason. He never gets a shot in his favoured position of the hole that often either.
6) Dembele alongside Sandro looks really good and allows Dembele the freedom to drive forward, but we've never played the two together this season? Why?
7) Paulinho - he started off really well but has gone badly off the ball. He needs a rest to me, but he keeps getting run into the ground? Why?

So we are playing enough attacking talents in my view to play very good attacking football, but weird decisions, formations, tactics and other things are clearly hindering them. And when Eriksen and Lamela have come into the team (Lamela's performance against Sheriff and Eriksen's against Norwich apart), they have looked as lost as the players that were in there in the first place.

Simple things could be done to improve things considerably in my view, such as switching Townsend to the left to give us some natural width on that side in the absence of Rose, and telling him to fire balls across goal for Soldado, working on Soldado's runs to match those balls. I'd give Eriksen an extended run in the side in the hole and Lamela an extended run on the right. I'd play Dembele with Sandro and give Paulinho a rest.

It's a bit funny that every player we sign (especially strikers) come here and start to deteriorate in their abilities lol. To be fair it's not just since AVB arrived, it was before that as well. A fair amount of the coaching staff is the same as it was then which might point to the problem.

I don't think AVB's system helps much either though. Players like Holtby and Dembele looked good at Schalke and Fulham because those teams played on the counterattack and so they had more space in which to pick out passes (or in Dembele's case to charge into with the ball). It's far easier if you are a number 10 like Holtby or Eriksen to pick the ball up in space and play a pass behind a defensive line to quick players running into that space. Far more difficult to pick the ball up in front of 2 lines of 4 and make something happen without your teammates creating passing options with good movement.

 

[DMac]

NWND, of course some other manager would have us scoring more goals right now. We would have scored more goals under Harry. We would have scored more goals under Ian Holloway. To be honest, we probably would have scored more goals under Tony Pulis. But that's not the point is it. We are ao obviously trying to build something, and so obviously have a particular problem, that I think it's clear that once it clicks we will be ok. Football is littered with examples of teams taking time to gel, but also of teams having patches of good and bad form. A few weeks ago Saudi Sportswashing Machine lost at home to Hull, now they have beat Spurs and Chelsea in successive matches. I'm sure ther fans couldn't see how it would get better, but it did. You simply have to wait.

DMac, the point on Potchettino is a good one, but I don think it is as simple as saying that because they are doing something we are not, that our coaching must be bad. AVB rates Potchettino, and praised his work last season for making them 'very identifiable in their football'. I am 1000% sure that AVB has as much coaching knowledge as MP does and knows what movements need to be made on the pitch, but we are trying to achieve something different to Southampton. The style is similar in a way but we are starting from a different position to them in terms of club stature, which affects how opposition teams treat us and increases the pressure on us to get results, where as they have a bit more freedom to take risks. We are also trying to acclimatise the majority of our attacking players into a new team and get them working together, where as their attacking players are more familiar. Southampton will hit a bad patch this season too though.

If we see no improvement towards the end of the season, to at least show that we are trying to get somewhere close to fluid football in an attacking sense, then I think AVB will have failed. But the point has already been made that the reset button should have been pressed once we sold our best player and signed 7 others from other countries.

To me it seems a bit like wishful thinking, because to be honest we didn't see any improvement in the quality of our attack in the entirety of last season. It was pretty poor last season as well (though not as bad as it is now), but if anything our ability to create goalscoring chances regressed as the season continued, which makes me fairly pessimistic that we will see much improvement this season. Neither Defoe nor Adebayor last season, or Soldado this season, could buy a goal. Is that coincidence? Personally I kind of doubt it.

 

[Huddy]

Honeymoons over for AVB then and about time, it's only right we should be questioning what's going on with our performances this season as we've been well below par for a team with CL aspirations. It's going to be an interesting month, by the 15th December if we only net a couple of points or worse still pick nothing up against the Manc clubs and Pool I wonder how all those staunchly backing AVB will feel.

 

[Gutter Boy]

But we are playing attacking talents, just not all of them, regularly.

A few questions based on the current talents that are normally making up our front 4 positions:

1) Why did Townsend look so much better for England than he has done for Spurs? Especially in his final 3rd decision making, willingness to pass/cross and his shooting?
- Teams give England space because they know they are crap with the ball

2) Why does Holtby look a shadow of the creative/goal-scoring force he was at Schalke and if anything doesn't look creative, or like scoring at all?
- Getting used to the intensity of the EPL and poorer movement from his teammates

3) Why does Soldado look so poor, compared to his exploits at Valencia, even when he (rarely) gets provided with service?
- Demoralised by the lack of service/needs a bit of luck to kick-start his Spurs career

4) Why even play Lennon on the left at all? Why? I mean please tell me? When has this ever worked, or even looked like it might work, or even been a possibility in someone's mind?
- Against Chelsea under Jol. Agree I wouldn't both though - we should pick one of him, Townsend or Lennon for the right, and not play another on the left

5) Sigurdsson - I like him, he's done well, but then gets dropped for little reason. He never gets a shot in his favoured position of the hole that often either.
- I think he's our best option on the left at the moment (cf Lennon or Chadli) and would give him a run there; although I'd also like to see Eriksen deployed there

6) Dembele alongside Sandro looks really good and allows Dembele the freedom to drive forward, but we've never played the two together this season? Why?
- Because Dembele is not very creative or effective further up the pitch. Paulinho and Sandro has a better balance IMO.

7) Paulinho - he started off really well but has gone badly off the ball. He needs a rest to me, but he keeps getting run into the ground? Why?
- Capoue's injury, Sandro coming back from injury and Dembele being not that good for about the last 12 months. He always plays ten times better next to Sandro than he does Dembele

 

[BrainOfLevy]

To me it seems a bit like wishful thinking, because to be honest we didn't see any improvement in the quality of our attack in the entirety of last season. It was pretty poor last season as well (though not as bad as it is now), but if anything our ability to create goalscoring chances regressed as the season continued, which makes me fairly pessimistic that we will see much improvement this season. Neither Defoe nor Adebayor last season, or Soldado this season, could buy a goal. Is that coincidence? Personally I kind of doubt it.

I see why you'd think that. To be honest last season I put it down to the fact we simply didn't have the 'passers' to play the style of football AVB does prefer. (A read of his biography tells you that he isn't a Mourinho clone in terms of his system, and likes a more fluid play.) For the first half of the season he was trying to accommodate Harry's players and not change too much too quickly, then in the second half he had implemented the high line and the pressing, but Bale became too much of a winning factor to ignore, and we still had to accommodate the likes of Dempsey who didn't really lend themselves to the more fluid style.

This season, I think we will get there, because we have signed the type of players that can play in a fluid system. I thought we were there, after the Swansea, Norwich and Cardiff games where we looked excellent. Unfortunately it looks like it will take a bit more time to get there on a consistent basis, but I am absolutely certain that there is a place we are trying to get to and that we can do it.

I think the reason form fluctuates a lot between teams in football is because they get used to playing one way, the opposition understands this, and counters it. Then there is a bit of bad form before we can make the changes we need to make to go again. I think that, aligned with confidence, familiarity, and the fact that individual players will also face the counter-treatment (e.g. Townsend is already treble marked which will limit his impact). I think what may have happened is that we had a number of new players, and the opposition didn't know how to handle them or what to expect when utilised within our team. But once they knew what we were trying to achieve, the 'newness' that benefited us gave way to the unfamiliarity that is hindering us. Eventually I think we will get to a point where our familiarity overcomes the opposition's countering and our quality shines through. It's at that point where we will really start to fire.

 

[milo]

To me it seems a bit like wishful thinking, because to be honest we didn't see any improvement in the quality of our attack in the entirety of last season. It was pretty poor last season as well (though not as bad as it is now), but if anything our ability to create goalscoring chances regressed as the season continued, which makes me fairly pessimistic that we will see much improvement this season. Neither Defoe nor Adebayor last season, or Soldado this season, could buy a goal. Is that coincidence? Personally I kind of doubt it.

I don't think that you can read too much into last seasons attacking performance. AVB did not manage to secure the players that he wanted and the players that he had were mis-firing in attack, he then lost Lennon to a lengthy lay off. To get around this he set up a system that allowed our only star player to perform and run riot.

 

[Hootnow]

I don't think that you can read too much into last seasons attacking performance. AVB did not manage to secure the players that he wanted and the players that he had were mis-firing in attack, he then lost Lennon to a lengthy lay off. To get around this he set up a system that allowed our only star player to perform and run riot.

We can't read much into a whole season's worth of attacking performances?

Also, AVB isn't at Real Madrid or Chelsea. He won't always be able to secure the players he wants. We have neither the money nor the prestige to do so. And so he needs to able to recognise when he won't get his primary target and have someone else to go after.

As I said earlier, I wanted AVB in from the beginning and still support him, despite some nagging doubts starting to surface (due to how his team performed in an attacking sense at Chelsea and now here over a season and a quarter). The calls for him to leave are ridiculous (though I have a very real feeling he'll be gone at the end of the season, either Levy moving him on if he doesn't meet targets or AVB leaving for a bigger club if he does well).

I do think there are very real questions that need to be asked though regarding our attacking which can't always be fobbed off as extenuating circumstance 1, 2 or 3. Because the very sad reality is that Spurs will always have extenuating circumstance 1, 2 and 3 every season due to our position.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

We can't read much into a whole season's worth of attacking performances?

Also, AVB isn't at Real Madrid or Chelsea. He won't always be able to secure the players he wants. We have neither the money nor the prestige to do so. And so he needs to able to recognise when he won't get his primary target and have someone else to go after.

As I said earlier, I wanted AVB in from the beginning and still support him, despite some nagging doubts starting to surface (due to how his team performed in an attacking sense at Chelsea and now here over a season and a quarter). The calls for him to leave are ridiculous (though I have a very real feeling he'll be gone at the end of the season, either Levy moving him on if he doesn't meet targets or AVB leaving for a bigger club if he does well).

I do think there are very real questions that need to be asked though regarding our attacking which can't always be fobbed off as extenuating circumstance 1, 2 or 3. Because the very sad reality is that Spurs will always have extenuating circumstance 1, 2 and 3 every season due to our position.

I think he does recognise that he doesn't always get the players he wants, which is why he lead us to a records points total while probably sacrificing aesthetics last year and the beginning of this.

 

[NWND]

NWND, of course some other manager would have us scoring more goals right now. We would have scored more goals under Harry. We would have scored more goals under Ian Holloway. To be honest, we probably would have scored more goals under Tony Pulis. But that's not the point is it. We are ao obviously trying to build something, and so obviously have a particular problem, that I think it's clear that once it clicks we will be ok. Football is littered with examples of teams taking time to gel, but also of teams having patches of good and bad form. A few weeks ago Saudi Sportswashing Machine lost at home to Hull, now they have beat Spurs and Chelsea in successive matches. I'm sure ther fans couldn't see how it would get better, but it did. You simply have to wait.

DMac, the point on Potchettino is a good one, but I don think it is as simple as saying that because they are doing something we are not, that our coaching must be bad. AVB rates Potchettino, and praised his work last season for making them 'very identifiable in their football'. I am 1000% sure that AVB has as much coaching knowledge as MP does and knows what movements need to be made on the pitch, but we are trying to achieve something different to Southampton. The style is similar in a way but we are starting from a different position to them in terms of club stature, which affects how opposition teams treat us and increases the pressure on us to get results, where as they have a bit more freedom to take risks. We are also trying to acclimatise the majority of our attacking players into a new team and get them working together, where as their attacking players are more familiar. Southampton will hit a bad patch this season too though.

If we see no improvement towards the end of the season, to at least show that we are trying to get somewhere close to fluid football in an attacking sense, then I think AVB will have failed. But the point has already been made that the reset button should have been pressed once we sold our best player and signed 7 others from other countries.

There was another point made, that Wenger doesn't have any trouble implementing major squad changes every year and getting them to play winning, attacking football. And that football is as easy as letting the attacking players play. This is one of the most stupidest points in the thread. Ignoring for a second that if we were 'letting the attacking players play' and not getting results, these same people would probably moan that we don't have enough of a structure or plan, such is the life of a football supporter. But are we completely forgetting the fact that when Arsenal did lose their best players in the previous 2 seasons, Wenger's commitment to 'the Arsenal way' had them losing 8-2 at Old Trafford and absolutely disastrous starts. But he persevered and he got them playing good, winning football eventually.

The difference is though, Wenger can persist with his 'way' even when assimilating new players because he is Arsene Wenger, a legend at that club and with unwavering trust of the board. For AVB, he has to generate results and keep us competitive before getting us playing winning, exciting football because if we are too open and drop points, the squad loses confidence in him and the club loses faith. But if we want to get to where we want to go, then we persevere in our own way.

It is telling that the squad is still behind the manager. It means they buy in to what he is trying to acheive. If it simply was a case of boring football (which I completely agree it looks like that now) but with no sign of improvement, then the players would not back him.

But everyone keeps saying that "yes, we're really mundane and boring and functional, but don't worry because this isn't AVB's real vision, its just him starting out and after a while he's going to unleash this monster attacking passing GHod-damn amazing tekkers barca-stylee attacking football all over the place, which will probably cause Arsene Wenger to self-combust leaving only a feint odor of formage and cause Adrian Durham to commit suicide by a sponsored mission to eat as much extra-hot nandos as he can stomach.....it's going to be great, just you wait, he's just trying to make us hard to beat in the meantime, but that's not the REAL plan, oooooooh no sir"

But what is the evidence of this?

Last season = dull, boring and like DMac says, if anything our ability to create chances and play creatively regressed as the season went on till the point where we were literally relying on Bale scoring ridiculous goal of the season contenders to win us games against poor opposition at the end of the season, in games that reminded me a lot of this season's games.

This season = continue as above, but if anything even more defensive. We're so tight at the back, but our ability to create chances bar one or two periods in one or two games has been almost non-existant. Basically its got to the point where we stifle games so much with our play that neither side is able to create a chance of note (see Everton game).

I mean, i'd love to have your optimism, but where is the evidence that AVB is planning this more progressive route? My concern is that the actual evidence in front of me points to him actually imposing this defensive stifling strategy FURTHER on the team and that actually we ARE seeing a progressive move to his style more and more over the last year and a half, but that this style he is heading towards is ultra-catennacio, whereby his thinking is purely statistical:

If you stop other teams from scoring there's only so many games you can lose.
If you stop other teams from scoring, the balance of probabilities says that you win a certain percentage of these games due to the chance circumstances of football.
If I get enouogh 1-0 wins and 0-0 draws, i'll get a points total that will at least stop me getting sacked on the balance of probabilities.

What evidence are you seeing of a progressive move away from ultra-defensive tactics to a more progressive style?

I don't think its a case of waiting for players to gel, or of AVB wanting first to make us solid, then to make us attacking.

I think its a case of AVB telling the players to play a certain way and drilling it into them, which leads to stiflied, mundane performance, where the players are restricted.

AVB has a lot in common with George Graham:

1) He's intelligent and articulate
2) He's smart and dapper
3) He's got a wry sense of humour
4) He's an ultra-tactician and he visibly enjoys nullifying other teams in a "Ha, i'm clever than you, i've stopped your tactics and got a sneaky 1-0 win, up yours" kind of way.
5) He appears to distrust 'flair' or 'eccentric' players, or players that are a bit maverik (GG's treatment of Ginola, AVB's sacking off of Van der Vaart, BAE and Ade).
6) Their preference for a double defensive midfield screen
7) Their rigid tactical style, which high pressure up the pitch.
8) A lack of goals from their teams due to the very rigid instructions and shapes their teams are set up (remember GG's four 0-0s in a row?)

I'll sit here and wait for AVB's attacking revolution, i've got a feeling i'll be waiting here for a while. Meanwhile, I think that the results will fail to justify the poor nature of football, as GG found out. The problem with setting up this way is that like Harry's opposite tactic of "go out and run about a bit" all out attacking free-for-all, it can only take you so far. By setting up so defensively, we struggle if teams do manage to take the lead against us, as its hard to turn yourself from a defensive stance into an attacking one, therefore you're almost accepting losing a few games every season.

Its football by percentages and I hate it.

 

[NWND]

I don't think that you can read too much into last seasons attacking performance. AVB did not manage to secure the players that he wanted and the players that he had were mis-firing in attack, he then lost Lennon to a lengthy lay off. To get around this he set up a system that allowed our only star player to perform and run riot.

Ha, why can't we factor in last season's performance? I mean it was a full season from AVB. And surely he can implement "his" style on whichever players he has, regardless of whether they're "ideal" for what he wants or not?

 

[Rorschach]

But we are playing attacking talents, just not all of them, regularly.

A few questions based on the current talents that are normally making up our front 4 positions:

1) Why did Townsend look so much better for England than he has done for Spurs? Especially in his final 3rd decision making, willingness to pass/cross and his shooting?
2) Why does Holtby look a shadow of the creative/goal-scoring force he was at Schalke and if anything doesn't look creative, or like scoring at all?
3) Why does Soldado look so poor, compared to his exploits at Valencia, even when he (rarely) gets provided with service?
4) Why even play Lennon on the left at all? Why? I mean please tell me? When has this ever worked, or even looked like it might work, or even been a possibility in someone's mind?
5) Sigurdsson - I like him, he's done well, but then gets dropped for little reason. He never gets a shot in his favoured position of the hole that often either.
6) Dembele alongside Sandro looks really good and allows Dembele the freedom to drive forward, but we've never played the two together this season? Why?
7) Paulinho - he started off really well but has gone badly off the ball. He needs a rest to me, but he keeps getting run into the ground? Why?

So we are playing enough attacking talents in my view to play very good attacking football, but weird decisions, formations, tactics and other things are clearly hindering them. And when Eriksen and Lamela have come into the team (Lamela's performance against Sheriff and Eriksen's against Norwich apart), they have looked as lost as the players that were in there in the first place.

Simple things could be done to improve things considerably in my view, such as switching Townsend to the left to give us some natural width on that side in the absence of Rose, and telling him to fire balls across goal for Soldado, working on Soldado's runs to match those balls. I'd give Eriksen an extended run in the side in the hole and Lamela an extended run on the right. I'd play Dembele with Sandro and give Paulinho a rest.

I swore I wouldn't comment in this thread as it is a bit silly but this bolded piece is the way to go in my opinion. As for the vein of this thread, AVB out? Really??


Demeble is getting slaughtered elsewhere but his partnership last season with Sandro was the most balanced and solid I have seen at Spurs for a very long time. We should go back to that. It works and is a better platform for our attack.

I think our stunted attack is all to do with the full backs and inside forwards. There should be guile and directness on both flanks. We're lopsided in this regards. A bit of balance here would help spread the play. That will help but most importantly in my opinion is the poor movement or our inside forwards and fullbacks. We're not giving the number 10 any options. The movement is exceedingly poor and patternless when it does happen. When I watch Barca I get rather bored by their seemingly repeated patterns of play. We need a bit of that IMO. I don't give a **** about spontaneity, that will come later. We get the system working effectively first. When the ball arrives at the number 10's feet this should trigger a series of movements. I don't see this or anything close to this yet. Get that right and we'll win the league.

Anyway get behind the manager and team. That might help too.

 

[Jurgen the German]

We can't read much into a whole season's worth of attacking performances?

Also, AVB isn't at Real Madrid or Chelsea. He won't always be able to secure the players he wants. We have neither the money nor the prestige to do so. And so he needs to able to recognise when he won't get his primary target and have someone else to go after.

As I said earlier, I wanted AVB in from the beginning and still support him, despite some nagging doubts starting to surface (due to how his team performed in an attacking sense at Chelsea and now here over a season and a quarter). The calls for him to leave are ridiculous (though I have a very real feeling he'll be gone at the end of the season, either Levy moving him on if he doesn't meet targets or AVB leaving for a bigger club if he does well).

I do think there are very real questions that need to be asked though regarding our attacking which can't always be fobbed off as extenuating circumstance 1, 2 or 3. Because the very sad reality is that Spurs will always have extenuating circumstance 1, 2 and 3 every season due to our position.

Agree with this.

Sorry to use Southampton as an example again but they are playing well and look dangerous going forward with Adam Lallana, James Ward-Prowse and Jay Rodriguez. You simply have to work with what you have. If we couldn't ask questions after a whole season and can't now then when can we?

 

[Pirate55]

I swore I wouldn't comment in this thread as it is a bit silly but this bolded piece is the way to go in my opinion. As for the vein of this thread, AVB out? Really??


Demeble is getting slaughtered elsewhere but his partnership last season with Sandro was the most balanced and solid I have seen at Spurs for a very long time. We should go back to that. It works and is a better platform for our attack.

I think our stunted attack is all to do with the full backs and inside forwards. There should be guile and directness on both flanks. We're lopsided in this regards. A bit of balance here would help spread the play. That will help but most importantly in my opinion is the poor movement or our inside forwards and fullbacks. We're not giving the number 10 any options. The movement is exceedingly poor and patternless when it does happen. When I watch Barca I get rather bored by their seemingly repeated patterns of play. We need a bit of that IMO. I don't give a **** about spontaneity, that will come later. We get the system working effectively first. When the ball arrives at the number 10's feet this should trigger a series of movements. I don't see this or anything close to this yet. Get that right and we'll win the league.

Anyway get behind the manager and team. That might help too.

1000% right. And who is this down to?

 

[Jordinho]

The difference from us is that Southampton and Liverpool aren't in Europe and Southampton really is completely different situation altogether, with little pressure to achieve anything more than survival. They can field pretty much the same XI in every game and have the whole week to work on things. It's no coincidence that AVB has prioritized getting the basics right first, making us hard to beat, while we get through the first few months. Everyone has been getting a taste of first team football and we are managing the squad well, meaning we are in a great position for the second half of the season. Once teams start to achieve their objectives the players will switch off and being fresher means we'll begin to pick up more points instead of our season fizzling out.

 

[milo]

Ha, why can't we factor in last season's performance? I mean it was a full season from AVB. And surely he can implement "his" style on whichever players he has, regardless of whether they're "ideal" for what he wants or not?

You are ignoring the substance of my post which was the issues last season are different to this.

Last season we had a lack of effective attacking options, so AVB set up a system to maximize the impact of our only star player. This was effective if unspectacular.


Whereas this season, I would argue that our problems are caused by bedding in eight new players (including Townsend) which is resulting in a lack of fluency and the team looking a bit flat.

I am not arguing that AVB should be given a free pass.