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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 84 74.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 29 25.7%
  • Total voters
    113
glasgowspur said:
We, as in the club, are constantly looking for a solution from a very narrow, in fact I'd say increasingly narrow, point of view.
We started off a long time ago with a very broad range of ideas, but our focus has become narrower and narrower.
Every idea that doesn't quite work is jettisoned, until the next one doesn't work and eventually we end up back where we started.
A step back to reappraise a more wider range of solutions Imv is what we need.
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We are a football club first and foremost. I'm not sure how we operate really reflects that so maybe i might agree with part of that
 
SpurMeUp said:
Ange is probably doomed because of the tanker of negativity. The narratives build, the journalists take part, pressure goes up and any freedom to develop us, make mistakes, learn and discover, is lost. He's ugly enough not to care (at least superficially but everyone does care, and of course he knows) and hopefully he can pull rabbits out of hats and get us winning. That is the only thing that can drain the swamp of negativity. But no easy task with the players available. He's been doing a sterling job though, we are still competitive despite all the missing players and an 18 year old CB. Honestly, he's a valid coach and deserves more support. Any other team they would be banging on about how impressive we're playing with half the side out.
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What have the media said that you think is untrue.

All the comments I've read and heard is about us being wed to a way of playing, which is from the managers own mouth.

There have been comments that nobody has ever won the league playing like us, which is true.

He's had 18 months to develop his style and he has by his own words said this is how we're going to play going forward.

People are complimentary about our forward play and ethos.
 
Daisuk said:
As far as the public narrative goes, that's 100% media driven, without them there wouldn't be a narrative. Sure, some fudging idiots complain and get into players inboxes as well, and some boo and spout brick at our games. I'm against all that, it's obviously extremely counter productive, and I personally find it difficult to comprehend why people do it, when they know that will directly influence the play on the pitch. But to use a place like this to voice a critical opinion instead of pretending its all daisies and swans - I just don't see the big issue with that. We've pretty much criticised everyone and everything on here before! Even Harry Kane and Gareth Bale have gotten their share! So why the big fuss about critcising Ange?
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Obviously this is private space, not available to everyone 😅
 
Junior19 said:
You just can't win, can you? We play low block, counterattacking football ala Mourinho and Conte, and the socalled "experts" slate Spurs for "they should do better, they are a big club, not just rely on Son and Kane on their bikes!" or what the flying fudge the complaint was back then.
We play high press, compressing game, the same "experts" claim "They should do better, they must understand they are not a big club, they can't compete at that level!"

Anyone who think we would have done better by attempting to settle a new defensive organisation, a new and different pressing system from thursday to sunday, having the very same players to choose from, really need to seek medical advice, and fast! Because they're having a stroke!

By better, I compare the 3-6 to a 0-3 loss.
We would perhaps not have shipped 6 goals, but we would most certainly have lost 99 of a 100 games.
Do you seriously think Porro, Dragusin, Gray and Spence would have done better if we had dropped deep around our own box, allowing Liverpool to pass around in front of us? With Bissouma and Sarr in front of the back four? Requiring the tactical disipline of a, say, Hojbjerg, as contrary to a Sarr? As for countering with Sonny, we saw clearly how much of his speed he has lost on the few attempt he had at running from deep yesterday. Son of hinteryears would have been nigh on untouchable in a few of those situations, yesterday he was intercepted with relative ease.

The way I see it we played our game. We knew it would be tough, but we also knew we would score goals. Worst case scenario we learn a few lessions, and drop 3 points. Best case scenario, we learn a few lessions and get 3 points.

Am I happy we lost against Liverpool? No, not in any way. Would I rather lose like yesterday, or 0-3 with Mou'ball, or Conte-ball (with the obligatory player(s) thrown under a couple of buses)? Well, that is not even a hard question!

I also noted a few other things: When we were leading big against City, people started leaving. A lot fewer seemed to leave yesterday when Liverpool were up by several goals. It may have been the TV-pictures fooling me, but to me the stadium looked rather full right up untill the end.
And the "oh when the Spurs.."-song came through loud and clear.
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I didn’t think it would need explaining, but here goes…it doesn’t have to be Ange’s approach or Conte/Mourinho’s. Most teams get by playing somewhere inbetween, and varying their game plan dependent on the opposition.

Mosquito_Coasting said:
It's funny with Liew, most Gooners don't seem that threatened by Spurs but he truly does and reacts in this way.
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It’s hilarious that people actually think that anything he writes can’t be true because he supports Arsenal.

I call it The Eccleshare Theory.
 
fernadez said:
What have the media said that you think is untrue.

All the comments I've read and heard is about us being wed to a way of playing, which is from the managers own mouth.
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There you go you see, the pressure is there and he knows the prevailing narratives. As do the jornos.
fernadez said:
There have been comments that nobody has ever won the league playing like us, which is true.
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City...only last season!
fernadez said:
He's had 18 months to develop his style and he has by his own words said this is how we're going to play going forward.

People are complimentary about our forward play and ethos.
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And?
 
SpurMeUp said:
There you go you see, the pressure is there and he knows the prevailing narratives. As do the jornos.
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How is that a narrative? The manager has said that we play one way. It's not a story concocted by others, he's the one who put it out there.

SpurMeUp said:
City...only last season!
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I don't think Pep is the tactical GHod some do, but City manage games much better than we ever do. Both full backs don't invert. They have a similar high line but their front 5 isn't made up of 2 full backs.
SpurMeUp said:
And?
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What do you mean and? You spoke about having the freedom to develop etc and he's had 18 months of that. Now people are asking questions of what more there is to the system then attacking.
 
tommysvr said:
3 times in the last 11 years (one with Poch in charge): https://thfcdb.com/teams/liverpool-fc/matches?homeOrAway=H&margin=2&marginComparison=>&result=L

6 in our history.
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I did say at HOME...

Tbf, i had forgetten about Poch's first home game vs Liverpool, man that was a royal schooling.
So the previous home losses like that to Liverpool were the 3-0 under Poch (his 3rd game as coach) and then before that the 5-0 defeat in AVB's last game. I think that re-enforces my point, if anything.
Losing in such a big way at HOME vs Liverpool is not something that is easily brushed off (certainly wasn't for AVB...)
 
fernadez said:
How is that a narrative? The manager has said that we play one way. It's not a story concocted by others, he's the one who put it out there.
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You haven't noticed the whinge-fest about how inflexible he is? Ange is aware. I'm aware. You are. The internet is. Journalists are.
fernadez said:
I don't think Pep is the tactical GHod some do,
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Only the most successful manager of the modern era, possibly all time.
fernadez said:
but City manage games much better than we ever do. Both full backs don't invert. They have a similar high line but their front 5 isn't made up of 2 full backs.
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No doubt. And there are some aspects to our play I prefer. We are more direct. We don't look to hold the ball as much. Which can be an issue. In fact I don't think we can hold the ball. Even when we need to. So its a bit double edged. And we don't have the defensive foundation of 'pool when our fast counters breakdown. We are work in progress. There is more to come. If given space and time.
fernadez said:
What do you mean and? You spoke about having the freedom to develop etc and he's had 18 months of that. Now people are asking questions of what more there is to the system then attacking.
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You think 18 months is enough. And that chopping and changing is the answer. I don't.
 
Mrs Vert said:
Did he not mention so many international footballers.....Porro, Kulu, Son, Drags, Biss, Sarr, Werner...is that not true? They all played a part.
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Oh dear, lets rewind. You said the article was giving us some home truths. Yet its saying we have all these wonderful internationals who are not performing. Of our back 5 none are seasoned internationals. Porro on the fringes, and Dragusin is 22 and happens to play for a smallish footballing nation. It is factually incorrect with Gray, Spence and Forster (not senior internationals) and misrepresentation with many of our promising, but hardly seasoned players who are on the fringes of international teams (Sarr, Solanke etc). We are hardly galacticos! :sweatsmile:
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Oh dear, lets rewind. You said the article was giving us some home truths. Yet its saying we have all these wonderful internationals who are not performing. Of our back 5 none are seasoned internationals. Porro on the fringes, and Dragusin is 22 and happens to play for a smallish footballing nation. It is factually incorrect with Gray, Spence and Forster (not senior internationals) and misrepresentation with many of our promising, but hardly seasoned players who are on the fringes of internal teams (Sarr, Solanke etc). We are hardly galacticos! :sweatsmile:
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I never said we were galacticos. If you are going to dissect how often they play for their countries, that is another argument. I am not sure if he was just focusing on the back 4 or the entire team, I am not going back to read the article again. We had internationals in our team yesterday, that part is true.
 
Mrs Vert said:
I never said we were galacticos. If you are going to dissect how often they play for their countries, that is another argument. I am not sure if he was just focusing on the back 4 or the entire team, I am not going back to read the article again. We had internationals in our team yesterday, that part is true.
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Here's a list of Tongas international football players: https://www.national-football-teams.com/country/188/2024/Tonga.html

They are all internationals. Obviously all equal in quality as the article made out. :rolleyes:
 
SpurMeUp said:
Here's a list of Tongas international football players: https://www.national-football-teams.com/country/188/2024/Tonga.html

They are all internationals. Obviously all equal in quality as the article made out. :rolleyes:
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Ok, I am not really sure what you are getting at with regards to Tonga.

I have now gone back to the article and picked one paragraph: "The real question is: why do they think these things? How have Tottenham been so unlucky as to end up with so many international footballers who seem to make terrible decisions at key moments? Are they just bad players, incapable of reading a situation? Or have they been slowly stewed in a culture where total commitment is an acceptable substitute for judgment? Where the acid test of your quality is not what you did, or what actually happened, but how loyally you stuck to the ideology?"

I didn't read it that way. You did. You don't like the article or the journalist which is fair enough. I honestly don't find what he said so terrible.....so maybe we can agree to disagree. I actually agreed with your original point, only pointing out we have internationals :)
 
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