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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 83 77.6%

  • Out

    Votes: 24 22.4%
  • Total voters
    107
glorygloryeze said:
That's a bit harsh i think, given the direction of travel (in terms of how we are actually playing in games) goes back about a year now....not sure "loving it" is fair either.

But...i do want to see some argue for Ange's corner more than ever now, and not in a way talking about the background noise of Levy/ENIC (that can come later). Just about Ange and his tactics etc alone...
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My argument for Ange is that I don't think we are seeing the true Angeball yet.
One of my Celtic supporting mates who watches a few of our games says that what we are playing now is not recognisable as Angeball.
Quick one touch football, balls down the line, around the corners, attacking runs, it's just not there.
This guy is a huge fan of son and says that he has been terrible and not fitting into the shape.
Another one who doesn't watch our games but watched it last night said a lot of similar things.
We know it can work, we have cut teams apart, good teams, city, Chelsea, Brighton, but it's not there yet consistently and I think that is down to a couple of players not suited or unwilling to play that way.
 
glorygloryeze said:
That's a bit harsh i think, given the direction of travel (in terms of how we are actually playing in games) goes back about a year now....not sure "loving it" is fair either.

But...i do want to see some argue for Ange's corner more than ever now, and not in a way talking about the background noise of Levy/ENIC (that can come later). Just about Ange and his tactics etc alone...
Click to expand...
Mate
I’m not even talking about you
Your like mid level negative at best
There are many more who wait with baited breath for a poor result to return
 
glorygloryeze said:
Btw @Bedfordspurs your new profile pic is a little disconcerting...it's a bit too clean cut.

Apart from looking like one of those comedians in that BBC game show (i am assuming it's you and not him in the picture) i preferred the old lop-sided one; it fitted in perfectly with your grammar and was similarly comfortingly random..

Sigh


<<Love you still, really anyways..>>
Click to expand...
Yeah it’s a work one
The old one stoped showing
But it is little old me
Middle aged and getting wider (not wiser)
 
So… apparently we’ve been looking at Marco Silva should we pull the trigger. Honestly, I know he’s a decent coach, but I’m not sure how I feel about that if he’s the alternative to Ange…

Eugh…
 
DaveT316 said:
So… apparently we’ve been looking at Marco Silva should we pull the trigger. Honestly, I know he’s a decent coach, but I’m not sure how I feel about that if he’s the alternative to Ange…

Eugh…
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I think he was probably one of the right choices directly after Poch. His football isn't as lively and spirited as Ange's usually but he definitely has stronger defensive principles. He's the guy that made Richy look decent, he's not an awful idea. I don't know if sacking Ange is really the solution although I do think he could be doing better with just some slight adjustments.
 
DaveT316 said:
So… apparently we’ve been looking at Marco Silva should we pull the trigger. Honestly, I know he’s a decent coach, but I’m not sure how I feel about that if he’s the alternative to Ange…

Eugh…
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A fair coach but there are question marks about his temperament, he threw his toys out a few times in his last couple of jobs, including Fulham

I like Frank but I don't trust our fans with him, another who you want to give 3/4 years but one sticky point I can see his footballing CV being used against him. He also plays a fair bit of direct football which can be abit..........meh at times
 
Bishop said:
I think he was probably one of the right choices directly after Poch. His football isn't as lively and spirited as Ange's usually but he definitely has stronger defensive principles. He's the guy that made Richy look decent, he's not an awful idea. I don't know if sacking Ange is really the solution although I do think he could be doing better with just some slight adjustments.
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Yep agree with all of this
 
braineclipse said:
Ange said Bergvall would have started if not for an illness.

I agree though that I'd like more trust to be shown in our younger players. Just to give the more experienced players more of a rest of nothing else.

He has said before he doesn't want to throw youngsters in because there's a lack of options, but play them when he thinks the circumstances are such that they can do well or words to that effect. I think he's mostly just sticking by that kind of principle.
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Yeah but that's what they all say, isn't it? There's always a good reason not to play an untested talent at a certain level. We had that conversation all the time in the late 90s early 2000s, when the club were doing poorly in the league. A lot of people thought that the youngsters would hardly be any worse than the established first team players and, inevitably, the manager would say that it wouldn't be fair on them to throw them into the team into these circumstances, etc.

There's just three points I'd like to make here. First, Sol Campbell (Judas) and Ledley King, two of arguably the best defenders this club ever produced, got into the team at a time when we were really struggling. When you really believe in a kid and you think they have talent, then you play them. It's as simple as that.

That leads me to my second point: Postecoglou has always said he was in for the long run, he was a big picture kind of guy. Then, in the middle of an injury crisis, why not give your younger players a chance? You can't say on the one hand that you have the next five years in mind in every decision you make (as in signing young players) and then claim you have to win the next game. So far, he's rather played established players out of position than given a start to someone younger. Quite frankly, I thought he'd be braver.

Third, there are a lot of managers out there who are showing more guts when it comes to giving youth a chance in the first team. I'm not saying he should field a U-21 line-up but we're supposed to have some great talents at this club and if you don't play them in the middle of an injury crisis and when you're allegedly not under pressure then when? Only way you'll know if a kid is ready is to show some faith in him, in my opinion.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Good coach
Wrong reaction though
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I guess to expand on my feelings on it... On one hand, he’s not pulled up any trees anywhere previously, but on the other, he is a decent coach and sometimes things can just slot into place for a manager.

Either way, it doesn’t smack of any real joined up thinking by the club. To me, at least…
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Yeah but that's what they all say, isn't it? There's always a good reason not to play an untested talent at a certain level. We had that conversation all the time in the late 90s early 2000s, when the club were doing poorly in the league. A lot of people thought that the youngsters would hardly be any worse than the established first team players and, inevitably, the manager would say that it wouldn't be fair on them to throw them into the team into these circumstances, etc.

There's just three points I'd like to make here. First, Sol Campbell (Judas) and Ledley King, two of arguably the best defenders this club ever produced, got into the team at a time when we were really struggling. When you really believe in a kid and you think they have talent, then you play them. It's as simple as that.

That leads me to my second point: Postecoglou has always said he was in for the long run, he was a big picture kind of guy. Then, in the middle of an injury crisis, why not give your younger players a chance? You can't say on the one hand that you have the next five years in mind in every decision you make (as in signing young players) and then claim you have to win the next game. So far, he's rather played established players out of position than given a start to someone younger. Quite frankly, I thought he'd be braver.

Third, there are a lot of managers out there who are showing more guts when it comes to giving youth a chance in the first team. I'm not saying he should field a U-21 line-up but we're supposed to have some great talents at this club and if you don't play them in the middle of an injury crisis and when you're allegedly not under pressure then when? Only way you'll know if a kid is ready is to show some faith in him, in my opinion.
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King played his debut season alongside Naybet, essentially an on-field 30+ coach. Back then (and earlier with Campbell) there was not the constant fan scrutiny. I would suggest that currently, AP does not feel he has a young CB of that calibre. I like Dorrington but imagine, one mistake and social media would bury him. I think it is reasonable to protect youth in this moment unless they are fully ready. Moore, Gray and Bergvall is quite a good youth rep IMO.
 
stratnumberone said:
I think that we may learn a little about the current player-manager relationship from his next press conference (which I assume is tomorrow?). I’d be amazed if he isn’t asked about Werner and his responses to such questions should tell a tale… Personally I’d like him to show a little contrition and explain that he’s sat down with TW and talked things through etc etc. If he doubles down then I think there’s a very real chance that he has lost (or is losing) and is ‘digging in’.

Is TW the answer to all our problems? Of course he isn’t.

Is he the only player massively underperforming? Of course he isn’t.

Do we need him at the current time? Of course we do.

Ange needs to ensure that TW is integrated, motivated and ready to play for us.
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Sky carrying it now. Basically a message to the rest of the squad: if you don’t like it then bye bye.
glorygloryeze said:
That's a bit harsh i think, given the direction of travel (in terms of how we are actually playing in games) goes back about a year now....not sure "loving it" is fair either.

But...i do want to see some argue for Ange's corner more than ever now, and not in a way talking about the background noise of Levy/ENIC (that can come later). Just about Ange and his tactics etc alone...
Click to expand...
There is a cult of Ange with some. Despite the evidence of 12 months it’s not right to criticise in any way (not @Bedfordspurs btw).
glasgowspur said:
My argument for Ange is that I don't think we are seeing the true Angeball yet.
One of my Celtic supporting mates who watches a few of our games says that what we are playing now is not recognisable as Angeball.
Quick one touch football, balls down the line, around the corners, attacking runs, it's just not there.
This guy is a huge fan of son and says that he has been terrible and not fitting into the shape.
Another one who doesn't watch our games but watched it last night said a lot of similar things.
We know it can work, we have cut teams apart, good teams, city, Chelsea, Brighton, but it's not there yet consistently and I think that is down to a couple of players not suited or unwilling to play that way.
Click to expand...
The bloke has been here 18 months and I honestly think I’ve seen what I was told was Angeball maybe three or four times. We look like we have been going largely backwards for months - and plenty of those performances were before the injuries.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Yeah but that's what they all say, isn't it? There's always a good reason not to play an untested talent at a certain level. We had that conversation all the time in the late 90s early 2000s, when the club were doing poorly in the league. A lot of people thought that the youngsters would hardly be any worse than the established first team players and, inevitably, the manager would say that it wouldn't be fair on them to throw them into the team into these circumstances, etc.

There's just three points I'd like to make here. First, Sol Campbell (Judas) and Ledley King, two of arguably the best defenders this club ever produced, got into the team at a time when we were really struggling. When you really believe in a kid and you think they have talent, then you play them. It's as simple as that.

That leads me to my second point: Postecoglou has always said he was in for the long run, he was a big picture kind of guy. Then, in the middle of an injury crisis, why not give your younger players a chance? You can't say on the one hand that you have the next five years in mind in every decision you make (as in signing young players) and then claim you have to win the next game. So far, he's rather played established players out of position than given a start to someone younger. Quite frankly, I thought he'd be braver.

Third, there are a lot of managers out there who are showing more guts when it comes to giving youth a chance in the first team. I'm not saying he should field a U-21 line-up but we're supposed to have some great talents at this club and if you don't play them in the middle of an injury crisis and when you're allegedly not under pressure then when? Only way you'll know if a kid is ready is to show some faith in him, in my opinion.
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I think he's done fairly good work with our yonger players so far. Sarr, Udogie in particular in his first season. Bergvall, Moore, Gray this season. Odobert could be added to that if not for his injuries.

But I think also being a bit careful with younger players, and particularly when the team as a whole is struggling is a good principle (sometimes to be deviated from) is a good idea.

Gray has started contributing in somewhat bigger games now. Bergvall is heading in that direction. Moore and Odobert probably would be too if not for their injuries.

Maybe Dorrington and Lankshear aren't seen as ready yet. That may be wrong, but that's the kind of thing Ange has to consider.
thfcsteff said:
King played his debut season alongside Naybet, essentially an on-field 30+ coach. Back then (and earlier with Campbell) there was not the constant fan scrutiny. I would suggest that currently, AP does not feel he has a young CB of that calibre. I like Dorrington but imagine, one mistake and social media would bury him. I think it is reasonable to protect youth in this moment unless they are fully ready. Moore, Gray and Bergvall is quite a good youth rep IMO.
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Agreed.

Not easy for Gray and Bergvall coming into this team with how they're currently playing. Think they've done well when called upon.

Could conclude from that that Ange should have used them more and earlier. But can also conclude that they have been integrated in a good and useful manner.

If Ange ends up being here for the medium to long term I'd expect them to be developing well in the future too, and others to follow.
 
Ange in, half a dozen players out, increase the quality on offer to the manager (any manager) for the love of GHod increase the quality
 
Today’s press conference is interesting.

He says Romero’s comments from a couple of days ago are “another excuse”. He’s “sick of excuses”; that if there are players in the dressing room who want an excuse then “they’re not the right type. We’re in a fight here” and says he’s not “worried about bruising egos.”

Very bullish in tone.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Mate
I’m not even talking about you
Your like mid level negative at best
There are many more who wait with baited breath for a poor result to return
Click to expand...

Yeah, i kn ow you weren't referring to me, i was just talking in general terms, but anyways..
Bedfordspurs said:
Yeah it’s a work one
The old one stoped showing
But it is little old me
Middle aged and getting wider (not wiser)
Click to expand...

Haha, i see so it is you..if i get my act together i'll remeber the name of the comedian i was thinking about.

I see you've changed it back...but not the lopsided one, noooo...

:D
 
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