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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 83 76.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 25 23.1%

  • Total voters
    108
Yeah we have missed loads
The key of course is some are in the same role like CB and wide forward which means no rotation and the players okaying forms drop with fatigue and then they get injured
This doesn’t excuse Ange from not managing the squad better IMO but when you play a team like Chelsea, top of the form table and able to make seven changes from their midweek game, played a day earlier who are missing 2 players (BBc info so may be wrong) you have a disadvantage that you need to deal with somehow

I judge our current run less on what happened yesterday vs Chelsea and more on what happens vs other teams like Ipswich, Palace, Leicester etc. As i say, we should be higher than we are even if we shouldn't expect top 4.
 
'maybe not top 4'.... This is a good example of the problem we have. Our squad is nowhere near top 4 standard. It is very rather thin and very young. 6th would be a decent finish if we didn't have the cups to worry about. However we have gone into this season with a squad no bigger (and perhaps smaller) than last season despite knowing we'd have a whole bunch more games to play.
It’s smaller for sure
We lost about 9 players IIRC and brought in 5
I did have it somewhere
That was a huge gamble espevially as Ange doesn’t seem to want to use the kids
 
Hmm, ok.

How do you imagine he'll do that, form what you've seen of him in the past?
Tactical changes? New players? Things simply 'clicking'?
New players.
Existing players coming back from injury.
The young players gaining experience and physicality.
The obvious gaps in the squad being filled with players who can actually challenge for a first team place and aren't just poor backups.
All of the players becoming more and more used to the tactics.
 
I judge our current run less on what happened yesterday vs Chelsea and more on what happens vs other teams like Ipswich, Palace, Leicester etc. As i say, we should be higher than we are even if we shouldn't expect top 4.
We should have beaten Ipswich
At least got draw vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine and arsenal too imo
We got exactly what we derived vs palace and Ipswich
We were lucky vs Fulham imo to get a draw
We should be higher and all t( data shows that but the chances we aren’t taken are falling to players who may well be broken. And they are broken because they are okaying every game because others an injured
I’d have bet money on richy being injured but oderbert, moore and even Werner attempt same time is nuts. Sonny looks injured to me but he is plodding on
 
Being honest, did you REALLY think we were only worthy of being 10th/11th place in the table a few weeks ago?

I think thats where we are now, I don't expect us to finish there come the end of the season, thats the nature of a league season. But I think its anywhere between here and 6th given what I have witnessed from this side and I think that would be par for the quality of our squad
 
'maybe not top 4'.... This is a good example of the problem we have. Our squad is nowhere near top 4 standard. It is very rather thin and very young. 6th would be a decent finish if we didn't have the cups to worry about. However we have gone into this season with a squad no bigger (and perhaps smaller) than last season despite knowing we'd have a whole bunch more games to play.
5 players in including Yang
That’s Solanke, gray, Bergvall and Odebert
Out… drum rolll
Loans
Gil *
devine
ohilips
Scarlett *
Solomon *
Veliz *

Sold… or given away
tanguy *
Dier *
Perisic *
Skipp *
Hojberg *
Royal *
Lo Celso *
Tanganga *
Sessgnon *
Rodon

All of those with a * played last season IIRC

It’s why Ange has said he is making calls for the long haul even if he suffers now because of it
 
I agree, squad isn't top 4 standard perhaps, but we aren't 11th standard. We have the extra games yes, but we have a bigger squad than teams who we would expect to see in 11th place rather than us so the extra games can hamper us in terms of top 4 perhaps but no excuses for having lost more than we've won etc
Again - you put in the word 'perhaps'. Our squad is nowhere near top 4 standard mate. These 'maybe not' and 'perhaps' statements merely show that your expectations are at a level that is unrealistic and then your disappointment is greater when we're a little lower than we should be.

Surely you can see that our squad is not even close to top 4? The top four squads in the PL are victims, Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal and Chelsea. You really think we are anywhere near close to those clubs in terms of quality and depth? We have some good players and even a pretty good first 11 that can match up to most outside of the top 4 but inadequate cover for most positions and lots of players still learning their craft.

We are 11th at present because we have a thin, young squad who are playing more games than 70% of the rest of the league. The 30% of teams playing a similar number of games as us have deeper squads and more experience.

If we finish the season in 11th place or lower and don't win one of the 3 cups then the season will be a failure. However, there is a long way to go in both the cup competitions and the league. If we don't happen to go much deeper in the cups then I think 5th to 7th is about a par finish for us.
 
We should have beaten Ipswich
At least got draw vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine and arsenal too imo
We got exactly what we derived vs palace and Ipswich
We were lucky vs Fulham imo to get a draw
We should be higher and all t( data shows that but the chances we aren’t taken are falling to players who may well be broken. And they are broken because they are okaying every game because others an injured
I’d have bet money on richy being injured but oderbert, moore and even Werner attempt same time is nuts. Sonny looks injured to me but he is plodding on
I'm pretty convinced that Udogie is also carrying an injury.
 
New players.
Existing players coming back from injury.
The young players gaining experience and physicality.
The obvious gaps in the squad being filled with players who can actually challenge for a first team place and aren't just poor backups.
All of the players becoming more and more used to the tactics.

I'm sorry, but what evidence have you seen over the last 18 months that suggests Ange has the tactical acumen to get us where we'd want to be or even closer to it than we are now?
We are progressively getting worse imo, and i see our lack of defensive structure now catching up with us. It would seem that for Ange to succeed he needs Pep levels of funding, funding we will never see any manager given under our ownership model.

We should be able to be more nuanced than just charging forward and backwards at 100 mph all the time
 
5 players in including Yang
That’s Solanke, gray, Bergvall and Odebert
Out… drum rolll
Loans
Gil *
devine
ohilips
Scarlett *
Solomon *
Veliz *

Sold… or given away
tanguy *
Dier *
Perisic *
Skipp *
Hojberg *
Royal *
Lo Celso *
Tanganga *
Sessgnon *
Rodon

All of those with a * played last season IIRC

It’s why Ange has said he is making calls for the long haul even if he suffers now because of it
Yet a small but noisy contingent of knee-jerkers want to (again) jeapordise the rebuild by getting rid of a person brave enough to try to transform the club into one that can actually win trophies.

I bet it is the same vociferous, knee jerking minority that wanted Pochettino out who also want Ange gone.
 
I'm sorry, but what evidence have you seen over the last 18 months that suggests Ange has the tactical acumen to get us where we'd want to be or even closer to it than we are now?
We are progressively getting worse imo, and i see our lack of defensive structure now catching up with us. It would seem that for Ange to succeed he needs Pep levels of funding, funding we will never see any manager given under our ownership model.

We should be able to be more nuanced than just charging forward and backwards at 100 mph all the time
We are more nuanced than that but fans don’t wanna see it
 
Yet a small but noisy contingent of knee-jerkers want to (again) jeapordise the rebuild by getting rid of a person brave enough to try to transform the club into one that can actually win trophies.

I bet it is the same vociferous, knee jerking minority that wanted Pochettino out who also want Ange gone.
Quite likely
 
Again - you put in the word 'perhaps'. Our squad is nowhere near top 4 standard mate. These 'maybe not' and 'perhaps' statements merely show that your expectations are at a level that is unrealistic and then your disappointment is greater when we're a little lower than we should be.

Surely you can see that our squad is not even close to top 4? The top four squads in the PL are victims, Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal and Chelsea. You really think we are anywhere near close to those clubs in terms of quality and depth? We have some good players and even a pretty good first 11 that can match up to most outside of the top 4 but inadequate cover for most positions and lots of players still learning their craft.

We are 11th at present because we have a thin, young squad who are playing more games than 70% of the rest of the league. The 30% of teams playing a similar number of games as us have deeper squads and more experience.

If we finish the season in 11th place or lower and don't win one of the 3 cups then the season will be a failure. However, there is a long way to go in both the cup competitions and the league. If we don't happen to go much deeper in the cups then I think 5th to 7th is about a par finish for us.

We can go on about our squad and its quality, but ultimately if your manager doesn't know how to set up a system that is more defensively smart and not simply based on running up and down the pitch at 100 mph then it realy doesn't matter what squad options we provide.
I'm not seeing any growth in terms of the players under Ange's direction, if anything most are going backwards and we are as naive in our play as we ever were last year.

We've had games where we've had little to no injuries and had the same rest as the opposition and still played the same, so the excuses wear thin now
 
Thin in a couple of positions but overall it's fairly deep imv

Our front 3 was exposed with the loss of Solanke, badly. Even with Solanke back yesterday we have Son who is a season here too long and a loan signing (I like what Werner has contributed but he is a loan).

Ange could do more with the Spence/Porro situation but at LB we are supremely fudged......

Thats without actually deep diving into how good people are actually at their roles. Unfortunately, the longer I see Maddison its clear why he is here and not elsewhere at what should be his peak. Deki is going up gears which is a plus, Bissouma is just looking worse every week and I have serious concerns about Romero and where his heads at.
 
I'm sorry, but what evidence have you seen over the last 18 months that suggests Ange has the tactical acumen to get us where we'd want to be or even closer to it than we are now?
We are progressively getting worse imo, and i see our lack of defensive structure now catching up with us. It would seem that for Ange to succeed he needs Pep levels of funding, funding we will never see any manager given under our ownership model.

We should be able to be more nuanced than just charging forward and backwards at 100 mph all the time
The start of last season will be held up. You could look at the Villa game at their place last year, Villa at home this year, the City game. I'm sure there are more but they're the most high profile examples as well as Ange's previous successes (which, granted, were at an inferior level).

There are examples where we've looked sensational and if you're in the "Ange in" camp, you'd point to them and say "if we can reproduce those performances more consistently, we'll do great". If you're in the "Ange out" camp, you'd say those performances are the exception rather than the norm.

I don't know who is right but I do think Ange deserves more time to see if he can find consistency because fire him now and we're gonna finish mid table anyway and have to start again. He may not work out but I think we as a club and as a set of supporters need to show a bit of steel and maturity and try to ride this rough patch out and see where we are in the summer.
 
5 players in including Yang
That’s Solanke, gray, Bergvall and Odebert
Out… drum rolll
Loans
Gil *
devine
ohilips
Scarlett *
Solomon *
Veliz *

Sold… or given away
tanguy *
Dier *
Perisic *
Skipp *
Hojberg *
Royal *
Lo Celso *
Tanganga *
Sessgnon *
Rodon

All of those with a * played last season IIRC

It’s why Ange has said he is making calls for the long haul even if he suffers now because of it
This is actually really interesting.... and shows how we have reduced the size of the squad (and wage bill) despite having an additional (really tough) competition to play in.

Gil - replaced by Mikey Moore
Scarlett - replaced by Lankshear
Solomon - replaced by Odobert
Veliz - replaced by Solanke
Dier - replaced by Dragusin (I know the timings didn't match but he was in effect the replacement)
Perisic - not replaced
Skipp - replaced by Gray
Hojberg - not replaced
Royal - replaced by Spence (back from loan)
Lo Celso - replaced by Bergwal
Tanganga - not replaced
Sessgnon - not replaced

I don't think many managers in the game would've accepted losing so many experienced players and not replacing them with similar. Maybe Ange is really brave? Or maybe the above shows why we ended up with a manager who had only managed in weak leagues as no manager coming from the higher ranked leagues would touch us with a bargepole?
 
Our front 3 was exposed with the loss of Solanke, badly. Even with Solanke back yesterday we have Son who is a season here too long and a loan signing (I like what Werner has contributed but he is a loan).

Ange could do more with the Spence/Porro situation but at LB we are supremely fudged......

Thats without actually deep diving into how good people are actually at their roles. Unfortunately, the longer I see Maddison its clear why he is here and not elsewhere at what should be his peak. Deki is going up gears which is a plus, Bissouma is just looking worse every week and I have serious concerns about Romero and where his heads at.


Richarlson and then Lankshere for CF options behind Solonke before considering other players who can and have played there throughout their career - that's good depth.

LW/F - Son/Odobert/Werner/Moore

RW/F - Johnson/Kulusevski/Odobert/Moore(?)

We may be lacking some high end quality but we have depth up front. Can't be arsed to go through the whole squad now but bar GK or LB we have at least a good quality backup up player to call on. Our injury numbers are high though so we've been left short as a result
 
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