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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 83 77.6%
  • Out

    Votes: 24 22.4%

  • Total voters
    107
I like this post by Shearer

Very, very good players play well nine games out of 10. Good players play well six or seven times out of 10.

That's what is happening with Tottenham. They have a lot of good players but until they get very good players they will continue to be inconsistent.
 
I like this post by Shearer

Very, very good players play well nine games out of 10. Good players play well six or seven times out of 10.

That's what is happening with Tottenham. They have a lot of good players but until they get very good players they will continue to be inconsistent.
We have some good players but I'm not sure if we have many very good players and we have no excellent players. Now I don't believe you have to be littered with top notch players in every position to do well (although you will find the teams that really excel, winning multiple championships, doing doubles, trebles etc typically do), but to hit the top 4 you usually need at least one excellent player and usually in a key attacking position. That's something we are lacking, none of the attacking trident even comes close to the words excellent, even Son in his pomp would be debatable (and I loved Son) but he's a million miles from that level at this point.

Systems can somewhat equalise things, we've often seen teams over perform relative to the quality of the individuals and then those individuals struggle outside the confines of that system but a system can only enhance what is already there. It can't turn water into wine, it needs some fermented grapes to add that bit of polish to.

So I see a general system from Ange that I'm fairly happy with (with some concessions to a lack of defensive stability) but we don't have the attackers to perform the system to a level that it requires and it's a very fine tooth system. It requires a level of technical proficiency and precision that the squad is lacking.

Now I would have hoped (and maybe expected) Ange would have adjusted his expectations to fit what he has currently to allow him the time to bring in the increasingly more suitable players for his system but he hasn't done and that and instead has stuck to his guns, trying to play a way the team can not consistently do largely to his own detriment.
 
We have some good players but I'm not sure if we have many very good players and we have no excellent players. Now I don't believe you have to be littered with top notch players in every position to do well (although you will find the teams that really excel, winning multiple championships, doing doubles, trebles etc typically do), but to hit the top 4 you usually need at least one excellent player and usually in a key attacking position. That's something we are lacking, none of the attacking trident even comes close to the words excellent, even Son in his pomp would be debatable (and I loved Son) but he's a million miles from that level at this point.

Systems can somewhat equalise things, we've often seen teams over perform relative to the quality of the individuals and then those individuals struggle outside the confines of that system but a system can only enhance what is already there. It can't turn water into wine, it needs some fermented grapes to add that bit of polish to.

So I see a general system from Ange that I'm fairly happy with (with some concessions to a lack of defensive stability) but we don't have the attackers to perform the system to a level that it requires and it's a very fine tooth system. It requires a level of technical proficiency and precision that the squad is lacking.

Now I would have hoped (and maybe expected) Ange would have adjusted his expectations to fit what he has currently to allow him the time to bring in the increasingly more suitable players for his system but he hasn't done and that and instead has stuck to his guns, trying to play a way the team can not consistently do largely to his own detriment.
This is also my take, which I'm in the Ange Adjust camp.

He seems to take the view that it's 'the way' or nothing but I don't think that's true. Just make them adjustments he's proved that he can do at times and give the players you have currently the best change of succeeded. You don't need to abandon your principles or philosophy to do that, just manage.

Udogie is fudged, why have him continually bursting forward into a #10 and achieving nothing then have to sprint back? Play him orthodox to compensate for defenders being out and attack misfiring. For example.
 
There were a few comments about it from discarded players up in Scotland and i think it was speculated about quite widely by Celtic fans.

But i also saw immediate signs the first time i ever saw him speak. Just the no eye contact and the eating alone thing are absolutely textbook. He has a bit of the gait too.

The discarded players, the one's that lost an unlosable league to a club that where in turmoil, those discarded players?
Ange took over at Celtic a team that were going nowhere, had become complacent, lazy and petulant.
The club are hoarding money (not going there on that one), the fans are demanding money to be spent and the fans viewed ange as another cheap move by the board.
They soon changed their mind.
 
Watching Arsenal for example

The full backs invert like ours but stay deeper which makes them more solid and let's the full backs both make good runs from late and also deal with breaks.

Just a simple adjustment of telling Porro and Udogie to support rather than be ahead of the play would change our balance significantly. Also let's the wingers be 1v1 and creates space for runners from midfield.
 
This is also my take, which I'm in the Ange Adjust camp.

He seems to take the view that it's 'the way' or nothing but I don't think that's true. Just make them adjustments he's proved that he can do at times and give the players you have currently the best change of succeeded. You don't need to abandon your principles or philosophy to do that, just manage.

Udogie is fudged, why have him continually bursting forward into a #10 and achieving nothing then have to sprint back? Play him orthodox to compensate for defenders being out and attack misfiring. For example.
The ‘Ange Adjust Camp’ perfectly sums up where I am. Thanks for that.
 
I am still in. You should do a thread for our players and if we are in or out on them ... unfortunately I wonder which club would take certain of them off our hands
 
I am still in. You should do a thread for our players and if we are in or out on them ... unfortunately I wonder which club would take certain of them off our hands
I’m still in but the trends are worrying. The repeated mistakes are worrying. Every criticism people have of Ange came back to bite him today.

He's in a very tough spot so he’s got to box a bit more clever than “it’s who we are mate”. If this truly is who we are, it won’t be for much longer when we get on the managerial merry go round again.
 
I’m still in but the trends are worrying. The repeated mistakes are worrying. Every criticism people have of Ange came back to bite him today.

He's in a very tough spot so he’s got to box a bit more clever than “it’s who we are mate”. If this truly is who we are, it won’t be for much longer when we get on the managerial merry go round again.
Fair point - one cant ignore the happenings. Truly hope the club is brave enough to see this phase through. We need a better squad especially in certain positions.
 
I’m still in but largely because I don’t care where we finish in the league as long as we don’t get relegated and we win something. I don’t think it matters who manages us whilst Levy is in charge, he’s gonna be in charge until he dies or his son takes over.
 
I’m still in but largely because I don’t care where we finish in the league as long as we don’t get relegated and we win something. I don’t think it matters who manages us whilst Levy is in charge, he’s gonna be in charge until he dies or his son takes over.

we've got 20 points and concede loads of chances every game

we are pretty much half way through the season and have a load of injuries

we are in a relegation fight
 
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