Ange in or out?

[Mikey10]

People keep saying things like this and I'll keep repeating the same thing back. We've won more games by 3 or more goals than we've given up 2 or 3 goal leads.

Also, I don't know a Premier League team that stops and gives up. Even when being comfortably beaten, like we did to Southampton, chances are still created. 1 goal and you're back in it. Hence the "most dangerous lead in football" line. It's not unique to Spurs whatsoever.

But I wouldn't expect you to see anything positive. I literally don't know if I've ever read a postitive comment from you on here. No hyperbole...like literally don't know if I've ever seen one. But that might just be because I skip over most of your stuff now.

I’m plenty positive when there’s things to be positive about, so you’re not looking hard enough, as you say. I also skip through plenty of posts (life’s too short!) so no offence taken.

I’m not deluded, though, and (I suppose in the same way you feel you see endless negativity) find it bizarre to read endless positive comments from some when, 18 months in, almost every metric says that this system is not working in this league.

Of course, it doesn’t matter what any of us say. If he adapts then things could still work for him with us; if not, he’ll be gone.

I was there as well and I disagree with you. We were not rushing anything at 3-0.

I disagree - that’s what this place is all about, though, I suppose.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I think the issue of slowing down the pace of the game - or not - is a genuine one. Interesting that the stats have endorsed what I thought i had seen. Once you have a lead, look to increase it but also take your time with goal kicks etc, don't rush them. I'd much rather have some "game management", to run down the clock, than lose a lead as we did against Wolves (though Maddison being a useless so and so may have contributed to that).

I know this sounds mental....but time and time again Ange has says he hates this, it doesn't matter if it's our team or the opponent....he's a football romantic and despises delays.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

People keep saying things like this and I'll keep repeating the same thing back. We've won more games by 3 or more goals

That's true...and surely gives opportunity to in-game squad management?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I was there as well and I disagree with you. We were not rushing anything at 3-0.

Forster certainly wasn't

 

[monkeybarry]

We should be after Kelleher in the summer. He doesn't have a glaring weakness and would be an upgrade on Vicario. Should be gettable in the summer and be a decent price with his contract situation.

I'm not convinced - he hasn't been properly tested.
He looks good in general, however when he had a short run this season a few errors started to creep in.
I have serious concerns over a 26 year old GK that has only 46 top level games - 20 for RoI and 26 for Liverpool.

 

[monkeybarry]

Yeah, you get a 3-0 lead and it should be all about the clock, make it as boring as possible, get the ball out of play, make it stop start.

The last thing you should be doing with such a lead is playing football, football is the enemy at that point, kill it.

That depends on the game.
If you are in control, keep going at the opposition - just don't let them back in. Ange's probably is he carries on regardless, even when the opposition turn the heating up.
Most teams at 3-0 down know the game is done. Against us you'd genuinely fancy a 4-3 if you've half an hour to work with.

 

[Raziel]

I reckon we'll be exactly as we are now
11th
Still in the LC
Still in the EL
Still in the FA Cup

You think we will get enough points to stay in same spot from Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Arsenal, Everton (A) and Leicester?

Sure we will be in the LC technically, but going to Anfield with 2 or 3 goal deficit is the same as out

 

[DubSpur]

Going long and the ball coming back at us immediately also creates pressure on the defence. Forster just made a couple of poor decisions/mistakes. I really don't think those goals were systemic issues, just mistakes.

It's not an either only play out or go long every time. Going through your keeper in your own 6 yard box is not a time to try and play out from the back. Pick your time for each.

 

[DubSpur]

I'm not convinced - he hasn't been properly tested.
He looks good in general, however when he had a short run this season a few errors started to creep in.
I have serious concerns over a 26 year old GK that has only 46 top level games - 20 for RoI and 26 for Liverpool.

46 games? He's played 60 games for Liverpool alone. The only reason he hasn't more is because he has arguably the best keeper in the world ahead of him. He's been excellent for Liverpool any time he's been called upon.

 

[monkeybarry]

46 games? He's played 60 games for Liverpool alone. The only reason he hasn't more is because he has arguably the best keeper in the world ahead of him. He's been excellent for Liverpool any time he's been called upon.

I should have said League Games.
23 in the lge, 37 in cups. (So 80 games in total - at 26 years old)
He hasn't been tested across the course of a season, only in microcosm.

When he had a small Lge run earlier this season, there were a few errors in there, especially towards the end of the run - the narrative that he is some superstar GK that sits on the bench isn't backed up by any solid evidence.

To say he is better than numerous established EPL GKs is nothing more than conjecture.
Is he? Maybe. But not definitely.
And I do then wonder why no-one from any major European Lge has come in for him if he is "so good".
Equally, if he's that good, why is sitting on the bench and not trying to be a no.1?

 

[DubSpur]

I should have said League Games.
23 in the lge, 37 in cups. (So 80 games in total - at 26 years old)
He hasn't been tested across the course of a season, only in microcosm.

When he had a small Lge run earlier this season, there were a few errors in there, especially towards the end of the run - the narrative that he is some superstar GK that sits on the bench isn't backed up by any solid evidence.

To say he is better than numerous established EPL GKs is nothing more than conjecture.
Is he? Maybe. But not definitely.
And I do then wonder why no-one from any major European Lge has come in for him if he is "so good".
Equally, if he's that good, why is sitting on the bench and not trying to be a no.1?

Sorry, but that shows you know nothing about him. He has been trying to become a number one for the last couple of years, but because of his contract Liverpool have been unwilling to let him leave. Now that the contract situation is turning more in his favour and he will most likely be going in the summer, if not January, to be a number one.

His performances have been mostly excellent. His errors have been very few and all keepers will make a mistake or two. And he is without doubt better than the majority of EPL GKs, including Vicario.

 

[tommysvr]

That's true...and surely gives opportunity to in-game squad management?

And then we go up 2-0, draw 2-2 and the complaints are “why didn’t we kill the game off!”

 

[seaside spur]

I'm not convinced - he hasn't been properly tested.
He looks good in general, however when he had a short run this season a few errors started to creep in.
I have serious concerns over a 26 year old GK that has only 46 top level games - 20 for RoI and 26 for Liverpool.

Martinez anyone ?

 

[Gazza]

And then we go up 2-0, draw 2-2 and the complaints are “why didn’t we kill the game off!”

No it’s usually the way the game plays out …. If we have killed the game and the opponents look defeated then we stupidly let them back in to the game then yes. Not just because we didn’t go all out mega after burners attack attack destroy run run mad keep the ball in play speed the game up more quickly quicker drongo football

 

[afsoc4life]

Sorry, but that shows you know nothing about him. He has been trying to become a number one for the last couple of years, but because of his contract Liverpool have been unwilling to let him leave. Now that the contract situation is turning more in his favour and he will most likely be going in the summer, if not January, to be a number one.

His performances have been mostly excellent. His errors have been very few and all keepers will make a mistake or two. And he is without doubt better than the majority of EPL GKs, including Vicario.

Kelleher is not better than Vicario.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

46 games? He's played 60 games for Liverpool alone. The only reason he hasn't more is because he has arguably the best keeper in the world ahead of him. He's been excellent for Liverpool any time he's been called upon.

It's quite clear why he hasn't played that many games, he probs desperately wanted to break into Liverpool's team and thought he was Allison's heir but now sees he isn't and thus wants a move. That Liverpool don't see him as Allison's replacement is more interesting than the number of games he's played. It would be very interesting to know why, everytime I've watched him he looks really smart.

 

[Diamond Lights]

You think these two things are as a result of us trying to attack...??

View attachment 18371

View attachment 18372

yes because the instructions from Ange are to never deviate from his style of football.

so instead of going long to a player like Solanke when 3-0 up, and playing counter attack/sitting deep, we are passing it out from the back (as you can see in the second pic we are running back after losing an attack, not sat deep), with a goalkeeper notorious for not being able to pass it out from the back (again because we never deviate from those principles).

Forster is of course at fault for both, but the instructions come from the manager to play that way.

His failure to adapt to in-game management will cost him his job. People complain about the injuries but are ignoring our poor form throughout 2024. hell we lost to Ipswich with both Vicario and Romero on the pitch! only VDV missed out, the rest was our starting XI.

Why cant people accept the potential possibility that Ange isn't the right manager despite the process being the right one to follow?

 

[tommysvr]

No it’s usually the way the game plays out …. If we have killed the game and the opponents look defeated then we stupidly let them back in to the game then yes. Not just because we didn’t go all out mega after burners attack attack destroy run run mad keep the ball in play speed the game up more quickly quicker drongo football

2 games, right? Brighton and Chelsea? We've not lost any others under Ange when leading by 2 goals. But this season alone, we've go on to win big because we don't stop playing in these matches:

- 4-0 Everton
- 3-0 Qarabag
- 3-0 Man Utd
- 4-1 West Ham
- 4-1 Aston Villa
- 4-0 Emirates Marketing Project
- 5-0 Southampton

Now, that's not saying we don't have problems. We clearly do. But this idea of "we're too manic when we lead and it costs us points" is extremely misguided.

 

[DubSpur]

It's quite clear why he hasn't played that many games, he probs desperately wanted to break into Liverpool's team and thought he was Allison's heir but now sees he isn't and thus wants a move. That Liverpool don't see him as Allison's replacement is more interesting than the number of games he's played. It would be very interesting to know why, everytime I've watched him he looks really smart.

He's not willing to wait another couple of years to replace Allison.

 

[tommysvr]

yes because the instructions from Ange are to never deviate from his style of football.

so instead of going long to a player like Solanke when 3-0 up, and playing counter attack/sitting deep, we are passing it out from the back (as you can see in the second pic we are running back after losing an attack, not sat deep), with a goalkeeper notorious for not being able to pass it out from the back (again because we never deviate from those principles).

Forster is of course at fault for both, but the instructions come from the manager to play that way.

His failure to adapt to in-game management will cost him his job. People complain about the injuries but are ignoring our poor form throughout 2024. hell we lost to Ipswich with both Vicario and Romero on the pitch! only VDV missed out, the rest was our starting XI.

Why cant people accept the potential possibility that Ange isn't the right manager despite the process being the right one to follow?

Ange himself came out and said after the match he never instructed Forster to do what he did for the second goal. Who on earth could think that would be an instruction? Dally on the ball under the striker is close enough to block it? He also called out the defender (Gray I think) who passed it back, saying they didn't need to go back. But things like that will happen whilst a team is developing. We are, quite clearly, not the finished product.

The idea that playing it long to Solanke is somehow guaranteed to win us games that we haven't actually even lost is seriously confusing.

And on your last point...we don't know if Ange is the right or wrong manager yet. He's been here for 18 months. The squad is far from being complete and ready for a serious crack at the top of the league, and we've had major injuries to set it back even further. Why can't people like you have any patience before writing everything off?