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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 88 70.4%

  • Out

    Votes: 37 29.6%
  • Total voters
    125
Finney Is Back said:
There are a lot of keepers out there who are better on the ball than Forster and wouldn’t cost much in terms of a fee. £25m pretty much buys you a first choice keeper.
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I guess I'd ponder that we just paid that amount for the current first choice keeper. According to some, we now need to upgrade rather than nurture him.

The problem with keepers is that they all have flaws. Just look at Kepa and his £72m Chelsea move. Brilliant with his feet, great shot stopper but not so great with the high ball. So they bought Mendy for £22m and everyone pretended he was better. Then he proved to have flaws, so they moved for Sanchez for another £25m. Now Kepa is 30 years old and Iraola is enjoying on of his prime years at Bournemouth on loan.

I'm not sure I know the answer with Spurs. We clearly need to remove Forster, Austin and Whiteman but Keeley hasn't got beyond League One yet, even though I believe he's doing well.

I would also wonder whether we need to be in Europe to share duties between 2 major keepers at the club. That suggests we wait to see how this season finishes before we make our next move.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Why would that be different for any other 4th choice player under Ange? Unless like Dorrington, they are also playing academy games
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It's an individual thing. Davies has soft tissue injuries and is of a certain vintage. That doesn't mean that Dorrington or Phillips couldn't sit around for a month and then play back to back games. Their bodies are different.
 
Muttley said:
I guess I'd ponder that we just paid that amount for the current first choice keeper. According to some, we now need to upgrade rather than nurture him.

The problem with keepers is that they all have flaws. Just look at Kepa and his £72m Chelsea move. Brilliant with his feet, great shot stopper but not so great with the high ball. So they bought Mendy for £22m and everyone pretended he was better. Then he proved to have flaws, so they moved for Sanchez for another £25m. Now Kepa is 30 years old and Iraola is enjoying on of his prime years at Bournemouth on loan.

I'm not sure I know the answer with Spurs. We clearly need to remove Forster, Austin and Whiteman but Keeley hasn't got beyond League One yet, even though I believe he's doing well.

I would also wonder whether we need to be in Europe to share duties between 2 major keepers at the club. That suggests we wait to see how this season finishes before we make our next move.
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interesting to note that Vic was a data answer to not paying 40mil for Reya as I understand it? I like Vic a great great deal, but Reya is an excellent keeper. I agree overall re: keepers, you don't really know until they're late 20s minimum...
 
thfcsteff said:
interesting to note that Vic was a data answer to not paying 40mil for Reya as I understand it? I like Vic a great great deal, but Reya is an excellent keeper. I agree overall re: keepers, you don't really know until they're late 20s minimum...
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In my eyes, Raya for me is a superb keeper, but a little too short. Beaten at his near post today from a little way out.

No reason Venom can't be better.
 
Muttley said:
I guess I'd ponder that we just paid that amount for the current first choice keeper. According to some, we now need to upgrade rather than nurture him.

The problem with keepers is that they all have flaws. Just look at Kepa and his £72m Chelsea move. Brilliant with his feet, great shot stopper but not so great with the high ball. So they bought Mendy for £22m and everyone pretended he was better. Then he proved to have flaws, so they moved for Sanchez for another £25m. Now Kepa is 30 years old and Iraola is enjoying on of his prime years at Bournemouth on loan.

I'm not sure I know the answer with Spurs. We clearly need to remove Forster, Austin and Whiteman but Keeley hasn't got beyond League One yet, even though I believe he's doing well.

I would also wonder whether we need to be in Europe to share duties between 2 major keepers at the club. That suggests we wait to see how this season finishes before we make our next move.
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We should be after Kelleher in the summer. He doesn't have a glaring weakness and would be an upgrade on Vicario. Should be gettable in the summer and be a decent price with his contract situation.
 
DubSpur said:
We should be after Kelleher in the summer. He doesn't have a glaring weakness and would be an upgrade on Vicario. Should be gettable in the summer and be a decent price with his contract situation.
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That would be a brave move. Kelleher is only moving to a club where he is first choice and there is no way Venom is sitting on the bench. It would be like the Raya / Ramsdale situation.
 
Diamond Lights said:
Add the failure to adapt, meaning 3-0 against Man U instead of sitting deep and counter, long ball for LAST 30MINS of a game is all, we continually attack and try to play from the back, lose the two goals and require Kulu and Solanke to play a full 90mins.
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You think these two things are as a result of us trying to attack...??

CleanShot 2025-01-02 at 17.14.00@2x.jpg

CleanShot 2025-01-02 at 17.14.14@2x.jpg
 
Muttley said:
The problem with keepers is that they all have flaws. Just look at Kepa and his £72m Chelsea move. Brilliant with his feet, great shot stopper but not so great with the high ball. So they bought Mendy for £22m and everyone pretended he was better. Then he proved to have flaws, so they moved for Sanchez for another £25m. Now Kepa is 30 years old and Iraola is enjoying on of his prime years at Bournemouth on loan.
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I agree. Any keeper you watch for 90 minutes every week will show weaknesses. Raya is a great keeper, got beaten really badly for Brentford's goal and nearly dropped another one over the line. That's why you get things like https://paininthearsenal.com/posts/3-reasons-david-raya-not-arsenal-long-term-goalkeeper
 
Muttley said:
In my eyes, Raya for me is a superb keeper, but a little too short. Beaten at his near post today from a little way out.

No reason Venom can't be better.
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Raya is a lot better at commanding his box during set pieces. There isn't that sort of panicky air around whenever a set piece comes up like there is with Vicario. If Vicario can work on that area he wouldn't have any obvious weaknesses.
 
DubSpur said:
Keeping the ball is fine, but don't do it in your own 6 yard box with players putting pressure on a keeper that isn't great with the ball at his feet.
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I think it's fine to try and keep the ball but it was a really bad decision to pass there, and the pass itself was awful. But I think we'll give away more goals in the long run if our way out is to just clear our lines every time, given the ball to the opposition and inviting more pressure.

My bigger problem is the second one. There's no need for that, and there's absolutely zero chance that goal happened because of the system. More to the original point, neither goal came from us trying to attack Man Utd.
 
tommysvr said:
Keeping the ball is the best way to defend a lead. Players will make mistakes though.
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I was at the Utd game. Even at 3-0 up our players were rushing to take throw-ins and goal kicks. The frantic nature of how we tend to play games encourages errors imo (as well as injury). It also allows opposition teams to think they are still in a game, even when they are 2 or 3 goals behind.

If Ange is to succeed with us he will have to adapt how he plays. Results and performances over what is now a substantial period make it hard to argue against this.
 
Mikey10 said:
I was at the Utd game. Even at 3-0 up our players were rushing to take throw-ins and goal kicks. The frantic nature of how we tend to play games encourages errors imo (as well as injury). It also allows opposition teams to think they are still in a game, even when they are 2 or 3 goals behind.

If Ange is to succeed with us he will have to adapt how he plays. Results and performances over what is now a substantial period make it hard to argue against this.
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A billion percent.
 
tommysvr said:
I think it's fine to try and keep the ball but it was a really bad decision to pass there, and the pass itself was awful. But I think we'll give away more goals in the long run if our way out is to just clear our lines every time, given the ball to the opposition and inviting more pressure.

My bigger problem is the second one. There's no need for that, and there's absolutely zero chance that goal happened because of the system. More to the original point, neither goal came from us trying to attack Man Utd.
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Neither goal came from us attacking, it came from playing out from the back which is part of the system. There is a balance between playing out from the back and clearing your lines when the need arises which it did in those cases.

We still did attack when 3-0 up. I don't know how many times Bruno got free down our right because Porro was so far up the pitch, it was crazy.
 
Saudi Sportswashing Machine (a)
Liverpool (h) - LCup
Tamworth (a) - FACup
Arsenal (a)
Everton (a)
Hoffenheim (a) - EL
Leicester (h)
Elfsborg (h) - EL

You have to admit, it will be intriguing to see how Ange is perceived at the end of the month after this sequence of fixtures.

It could be anything from hero to P45 in my opinion.
 
DubSpur said:
Neither goal came from us attacking, it came from playing out from the back which is part of the system. There is a balance between playing out from the back and clearing your lines when the need arises which it did in those cases.

We still did attack when 3-0 up. I don't know how many times Bruno got free down our right because Porro was so far up the pitch, it was crazy.
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And how many goals came from that?

I agree with part of it. I posted this about Porro against Liverpool (which you liked): https://www.glory-glory.co.uk/threads/omt-tottenham-hotspur-vs-liverpool.12100/page-49#post-1851807

As I said there, I think the risk vs reward will work more often than not...once we have a healthier team. But maybe I'm just overly postitive on things as a counter to all the negativity I read on how brick we are.
 
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