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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

NWND and anyone else arguing the point that him bringing in Dawson and Ade means he doesn't have a system or a plan...I don't know why you think this is where you've caught the other side about and see hypocrisy. It's entirely possible to believe in a system and style, and make first judgements on which players will suit it. It's also then entirely possible to change your mind about certain players and decide they would be able to fit. In Dawson's case, AVB probably thought he would have the same problems tactically as with Terry, and didn't need the hassle. Dawson showed a lot more willingness to learn though and was therefore welcomed back in. Nowhere near perfection and entirely understandable.

making wrong decisions/mistakes isn't as bad as not learning from them, the way he handled Dawson and now it looks like Adebayor as well as the way we put a stop to conceding late goals after the Everton game last season shows that he is capable of doing that - time will tell if he can correct the problems that are causing our limp attacking displays so far this season - his job depends on it.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Would you not say the fact that he's clearly a very likeable, stylish bloke with some interesting and unusual ideas about football cloud people's judgement and make them brush over the increasingly bizarre team selections, substitutions, tactics, performances and results?

In all honesty in my view he hasn't made many what you call bizarre team selections, subs or tactics. I've understood his line of thinking. There are always times where you question the manager. I remember Redknapp bringing on Parker at villa park when we desperately needed a goal.

I kind of get why he persists with Paulinho but it's not something I'd do right now. But I accept that, it's part and parcel you will always have different ideas to the next person.

Look for me he is a thoroughly likeable guy and for anyone that knows how I feel about Spurs it matters to me. It matters that I got to sing Gomes name and not Scezney. I like that the club employs people that I admire. He's a good guy. He has morales. I know I'm somewhat idealistic but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and most importantly time.

There is of course a line for everyone, and once it becomes apparent he has lost the dressing room and he can't take us further forward then I'll accept that it's time for a change.

I like most fans would still very much like to see us play with the swagger that this famous club is synonymous with. But I'm happy to get behind the side and give my full backing to the manager who I respect
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Simply causing unnecessary unrest at Tottenham?

Date: 26th November 2013 at 6:34 pm
Written by Ollie Bishop | Comments (2)

The press can be cruel even at the best of times, but with Tottenham manager AVB they always seem to reserve a special brand of spite. The prodigal understudy to Mourinho has never been welcomed on our shores; his arrival at Chelsea was greeted with suspicion and his move to North London with ridicule.

Spurs fans probably think pundits have it in for the club itself, but in my opinion this all part of a much nastier targeted campaign against the Portuguese tactician. Turn the clock back 12 months and the situation wasn’t too dissimilar; suggestions from certain corners that AVB has a couple of game to save his job, that he had lost the dressing room and that he was a fraud.

So even after a 6-0 Premier League drubbing, it would perhaps be wise to take some of the press fallout with a pinch of salt. Jan Vertonghen even went some way to dispelling suggestions that the AVB tenure was beginning to crumble, speaking to the Guardian he had the following to say:

“Is there a problem between the players and the manager? Absolutely not. There are also no troubles between [individual] players. This [defeat] was painful. Also the way we lost. I’ve the feeling I want to play this game again.”

“We even could have conceded more goals. This is a painful experience, but it’s just a snapshot. Not everything is lost. Not only the defence was to blame, the whole organisation wasn’t there. The manager tries to make the right choices. Sometimes the choices turn out to be good, sometimes not.”

Vertonghen himself has been branded as unhappy because he has been forced to play out wide to cover for Danny Rose; of course the Belgian wants to play centre half but as a stop gap this is hardly the start of a revolution. Similarly stories have emerged in the press that Dembele is unhappy at playing time and on his way out of the club in January. In my opinion you should be more worried when a player doesn’t see lack of playing time as a concern, you want all of your squad pushing for a first team place and to be hungry for it; this isn’t the calamity that so many media sources would have you believe.

So why the unrest?

Spurs have always had more than their fair share of ridicule; it comes with the territory. A side that has traditionally flattered to deceive, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory on numerous occasions. The tortured existence of a Spurs fans is something that even they laugh about; this isn’t anything new.

What has changed though is the way in which the media are digging their claws into the manager, this isn’t a jovial attack but something much more vindictive. Even when Spurs saw a revival under AVB during the middle part of last season there was never a sense of apology from those that had castigated him, rather a wave of silence waiting to pounce at the next sign of weakness. That time has clearly come, and the vultures are circling.

For me what separates AVB from many of the established managers is a new brand of footballing intellectualism. Gone is the whole go out and enjoy yourselves mentality, replaced by a much more calculated way of playing the game, something that Spurs fans should relish after the ‘Del Boy and Rodney’ approach of the last regime. It is different to what you would get from say an Allardyce or even a David Moyes, it doesn’t surprise me that Chelsea nicknamed him ‘DVD’.

AVB has brought a new brand of professionalism to Spurs, and unsurprisingly this just doesn’t wash with the media. Harry Redknapp, the media darling, replaced by the polar opposite in AVB. There does seem to be an aversion to change and a general lack of patience as soon as times get tough, the whole if it ‘ain’t broke don’t fix it mentality’.

At Spurs though the ambition is much greater than settling for second best, Levy has a vision for the club and feels a change in approach is necessary to achieve these goals. It may not be pretty or even successful in the short term, but the club are clearly willing to show the degree of patience that seems lost on the press.

I don’t know if there is just a severe bout of anti-intellectualism amongst certain parts of the media or simply a personal issue with AVB, but it certainly isn’t necessary and clearly isn’t helping.

Is it time to give AVB a break?

____________

Would be a shambles if AVB was sacked in the coming months
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

He's pretty much gone now.
A journo who's brief to report on Tottenham doesnt write something like that without being briefed by the club.
And all the things about have come from with in the club.

If true it's a shame - that being said knocking the crowd and then making a comment about being 'ashamed' after the Emirates Marketing Project game that could be misconstrued is super foolish.

Also if true the "natural order" has been resumed. The Goons with Whinger at the helm flying high and us a laughing stock.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

That the Guardian came out with that is quite worrying. I wonder who it is that is leaking it - to be honest the story itself is almost as bad as the Mail's though. I mean 'Sandro feels he is being left behind Capoue'. WTF!? and I'm sure if they actually read the quote about being 'ashamed', AVB wasn't saying the players should be, he said anyone associated with the club should be, meaning him, his staff, and the players. Basically that everyone is in it together - exactly what Hytner says he was not saying.

I didn't think the Guardian stoop to printing rubbish, and I will be very annoyed if we now bring in another new team, another new project, another few years of ripping it up and starting again. FFS the feeling of a club in total dissaray annoys me more than any result, 6-0 drubbings included.

NWND and anyone else arguing the point that him bringing in Dawson and Ade means he doesn't have a system or a plan...I don't know why you think this is where you've caught the other side about and see hypocrisy. It's entirely possible to believe in a system and style, and make first judgements on which players will suit it. It's also then entirely possible to change your mind about certain players and decide they would be able to fit. In Dawson's case, AVB probably thought he would have the same problems tactically as with Terry, and didn't need the hassle. Dawson showed a lot more willingness to learn though and was therefore welcomed back in. Nowhere near perfection and entirely understandable.

I'd say you should be more worried by the article Greg Stobart wrote after the City game, given that he's been used as an almost unofficial mouth-piece of the board at times.

In terms of Dwason, he isn't suited to the system, so regardless of any willingness to learn, he leaves us exposed playing pace with a high-line, he also continues to give away possession too cheaply for the system. So AVB should ditch Dawson or the system, instead he's dithered and done neither!

Ade is bizarre.

He's played most of last season upfront on his own, is starved of service and is dropped and isolated this season but isn't sold.

Soldado is brought in but looks like Ade did but worse and it looks more likely that Ade's poor form was more to do with the system than Ade as nobody can score in it.

As it is, Ade is still our most suitable striker to play the lone front role. Doesn't change the fact that he played him, dropped him, then recalled him for no real reason that would involve forward planning?
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

That the Guardian came out with that is quite worrying. I wonder who it is that is leaking it - to be honest the story itself is almost as bad as the Mail's though. I mean 'Sandro feels he is being left behind Capoue'. WTF!? and I'm sure if they actually read the quote about being 'ashamed', AVB wasn't saying the players should be, he said anyone associated with the club should be, meaning him, his staff, and the players. Basically that everyone is in it together - exactly what Hytner says he was not saying.

I didn't think the Guardian stoop to printing rubbish, and I will be very annoyed if we now bring in another new team, another new project, another few years of ripping it up and starting again. FFS the feeling of a club in total dissaray annoys me more than any result, 6-0 drubbings included.

NWND and anyone else arguing the point that him bringing in Dawson and Ade means he doesn't have a system or a plan...I don't know why you think this is where you've caught the other side about and see hypocrisy. It's entirely possible to believe in a system and style, and make first judgements on which players will suit it. It's also then entirely possible to change your mind about certain players and decide they would be able to fit. In Dawson's case, AVB probably thought he would have the same problems tactically as with Terry, and didn't need the hassle. Dawson showed a lot more willingness to learn though and was therefore welcomed back in. Nowhere near perfection and entirely understandable.

I don't know why you feel the Guardian don't print rubbish. From personal experience of some of the stories they have printed in the past, they are pure fabrication. When you know the facts of a particular story and see what they print, there is no relation between the two . They are the same as all newspapers in this respect. Some of the Editorial lines they take are just plain wrong.

Regarding Dawson, his fundamentals haven't changed nor can they. He can't improve his pace or his quickness of feet and turning circle. If he wasnt suited to the high line originally, what makes you believe he will ever be. And I like Dawson, I admire his wholehearted attitude and fighting spirit. But is he suited to the high line? Unfortunately not. He needs to see the play in front of him.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Simply causing unnecessary unrest at Tottenham?

Date: 26th November 2013 at 6:34 pm
Written by Ollie Bishop | Comments (2)

The press can be cruel even at the best of times, but with Tottenham manager AVB they always seem to reserve a special brand of spite. The prodigal understudy to Mourinho has never been welcomed on our shores; his arrival at Chelsea was greeted with suspicion and his move to North London with ridicule.

Spurs fans probably think pundits have it in for the club itself, but in my opinion this all part of a much nastier targeted campaign against the Portuguese tactician. Turn the clock back 12 months and the situation wasn’t too dissimilar; suggestions from certain corners that AVB has a couple of game to save his job, that he had lost the dressing room and that he was a fraud.

So even after a 6-0 Premier League drubbing, it would perhaps be wise to take some of the press fallout with a pinch of salt. Jan Vertonghen even went some way to dispelling suggestions that the AVB tenure was beginning to crumble, speaking to the Guardian he had the following to say:

“Is there a problem between the players and the manager? Absolutely not. There are also no troubles between [individual] players. This [defeat] was painful. Also the way we lost. I’ve the feeling I want to play this game again.”

“We even could have conceded more goals. This is a painful experience, but it’s just a snapshot. Not everything is lost. Not only the defence was to blame, the whole organisation wasn’t there. The manager tries to make the right choices. Sometimes the choices turn out to be good, sometimes not.”

Vertonghen himself has been branded as unhappy because he has been forced to play out wide to cover for Danny Rose; of course the Belgian wants to play centre half but as a stop gap this is hardly the start of a revolution. Similarly stories have emerged in the press that Dembele is unhappy at playing time and on his way out of the club in January. In my opinion you should be more worried when a player doesn’t see lack of playing time as a concern, you want all of your squad pushing for a first team place and to be hungry for it; this isn’t the calamity that so many media sources would have you believe.

So why the unrest?

Spurs have always had more than their fair share of ridicule; it comes with the territory. A side that has traditionally flattered to deceive, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory on numerous occasions. The tortured existence of a Spurs fans is something that even they laugh about; this isn’t anything new.

What has changed though is the way in which the media are digging their claws into the manager, this isn’t a jovial attack but something much more vindictive. Even when Spurs saw a revival under AVB during the middle part of last season there was never a sense of apology from those that had castigated him, rather a wave of silence waiting to pounce at the next sign of weakness. That time has clearly come, and the vultures are circling.

For me what separates AVB from many of the established managers is a new brand of footballing intellectualism. Gone is the whole go out and enjoy yourselves mentality, replaced by a much more calculated way of playing the game, something that Spurs fans should relish after the ‘Del Boy and Rodney’ approach of the last regime. It is different to what you would get from say an Allardyce or even a David Moyes, it doesn’t surprise me that Chelsea nicknamed him ‘DVD’.

AVB has brought a new brand of professionalism to Spurs, and unsurprisingly this just doesn’t wash with the media. Harry Redknapp, the media darling, replaced by the polar opposite in AVB. There does seem to be an aversion to change and a general lack of patience as soon as times get tough, the whole if it ‘ain’t broke don’t fix it mentality’.

At Spurs though the ambition is much greater than settling for second best, Levy has a vision for the club and feels a change in approach is necessary to achieve these goals. It may not be pretty or even successful in the short term, but the club are clearly willing to show the degree of patience that seems lost on the press.

I don’t know if there is just a severe bout of anti-intellectualism amongst certain parts of the media or simply a personal issue with AVB, but it certainly isn’t necessary and clearly isn’t helping.

Is it time to give AVB a break?

____________

Would be a shambles if AVB was sacked in the coming months

I'd say it would be a shambles if he was kept on, personally.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The Guardian article seems like media stirring to me:

- the same paper reported the AVB said the club AND players should b e ashamed of the results; from the quotes it was CLEAR he wasn't trying to blame others
- it comes AFTER Verts article, which was far more positive
- Sandro feels he's behind Capoue? Really??
- When did he blame members of the first team squad?
- Moussa Dembele would be first choice if he wasn't so crap at spotting a pass, or shooting or scoring ffs; even Shearer on MOTD2 lambasted him for running down blind alleys and not releasing people free into space
- Remember the Guardian is full of Gooners and Mancs that would love us to go into the usual boom-bust cycle again so any chance to stir (possible with a source from within who is in an anti-AVB in-house minority) they will run with it
- Do you really see Levy using a result against Manure (a team we've won once in 12 years) as a yardstick to judge AVB?

Down fall for this BS; if you're going to WHL and you are pro-AVB sing for the team so that the press can't add more fan to the flames
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

^do you not think Dawson played well last season?

Yes, I always think he plays well. When he's been exposed it's not his fault, if a ball goes over the top and Dawson is near the half way like and someone like Remy has a head-start on him running past him with lots of space to run into, is it Dawson's fault he will never catch him in a million years? Dawson gave one of the best performances I've ever seen in a a Spurs shirt against Real Madrid in the Bernabeau - doesn't change the fact he has been left exposed by the system too many times. Dawson plays best deeper defending the box. Not pushed up towards the half-way line waiting to get done!
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The Guardian article seems like media stirring to me:

- the same paper reported the AVB said the club AND players should b e ashamed of the results; from the quotes it was CLEAR he wasn't trying to blame others
- it comes AFTER Verts article, which was far more positive
- Sandro feels he's behind Capoue? Really??
- When did he blame members of the first team squad?
- Moussa Dembele would be first choice if he wasn't so crap at spotting a pass, or shooting or scoring ffs; even Shearer on MOTD2 lambasted him for running down blind alleys and not releasing people free into space
- Remember the Guardian is full of Gooners and Mancs that would love us to go into the usual boom-bust cycle again so any chance to stir (possible with a source from within who is in an anti-AVB in-house minority) they will run with it
- Do you really see Levy using a result against Manure (a team we've won once in 12 years) as a yardstick to judge AVB?

Down fall for this BS; if you're going to WHL and you are pro-AVB sing for the team so that the press can't add more fan to the flames

I would normally agree, but those lines about the medical team have got to have come from someone at least well connected with senior staff at the club
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I would normally agree, but those lines about the medical team have got to have come from someone at least well connected with senior staff at the club

Yes, they probably did from someone at the club and it's a case of either:

a) just stating facts beforehand and the journo is now mis-using that to suit the line he wants to take
b) journo is quoting somebody who is in the anti-AVB minority at the club
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

What was the quote from AVB? It is always difficult for me to understand his mumbling speech, but I thought I heard him say " the team should be ashamed of that performance"

I took it to mean the players, but did others think that by use of the word "team", AVB was using this in the wider context of himself, the coaches, trainers etc.

Not sure personally
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I don't know why you feel the Guardian don't print rubbish. From personal experience of some of the stories they have printed in the past, they are pure fabrication. When you know the facts of a particular story and see what they print, there is no relation between the two . They are the same as all newspapers in this respect. Some of the Editorial lines they take are just plain wrong.

Regarding Dawson, his fundamentals haven't changed nor can they. He can't improve his pace or his quickness of feet and turning circle. If he wasnt suited to the high line originally, what makes you believe he will ever be. And I like Dawson, I admire his wholehearted attitude and fighting spirit. But is he suited to the high line? Unfortunately not. He needs to see the play in front of him.

I hope it is rubbish, I really do. And I would think if they have been briefed by the club then they would at least be able to report on actual facts to make their story harder to pick apart. But the Sandro/Capoue comment is bizarre and feels shoe-horned in to pad out the story because the editor has said there is a certain amount of column inches to fill. Ditto the 'ashamed' comment which as I said previously, wasn't him saying the players should be and then subsequently causing unrest, he said everyone at the club should be but specifically said it shouldn't just be one player singled out but anyone associated, including himself and his staff.

So when it can get such easy facts completely wrong, it gives me hope that it is the business of the Guardian trying to ride what they think will be a wave of public interest in order to generate hits and sales, rather than a line from the club.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

What was the quote from AVB? It is always difficult for me to understand his mumbling speech, but I thought I heard him say " the team should be ashamed of that performance"

I took it to mean the players, but did others think that by use of the word "team", AVB was using this in the wider context of himself, the coaches, trainers etc.

Not sure personally

If someone could dig those quotes out that would be great, because it really does blow apart a big piece of the Guardian's story.

NWND, what did Stobart say following City?
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

"We have to be ashamed of OURSELVES and react to a defeat like this"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25079456

I noticed this on NewsNow.

Villas-Boas future in doubt as Tottenham boss becomes isolated at White Hart Lane

By Matt Barlow

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Villas-Boas-future-doubt-White-Hart-Lane.html

Any of us could have had AVB's success at Porto - but he was out of his depth at Chelsea and he is the wrong man for Spurs

By Neil Ashton



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...elsea-wrong-man-Tottenham--Ash-Wednesday.html

What's the beauty of being Villas-Boas? It's always someone else's fault

By Martin Samuel

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...s-best-thing--elses-fault--MARTIN-SAMUEL.html


There seems to be a pattern here and the above is from just one paper. Does seems as if the media have seen an opportunity. Backs what that kid was saying that blog I posted.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I noticed this on NewsNow.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Villas-Boas-future-doubt-White-Hart-Lane.html





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...elsea-wrong-man-Tottenham--Ash-Wednesday.html



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...s-best-thing--elses-fault--MARTIN-SAMUEL.html


There seems to be a pattern here and the above is from just one paper. Does seems as if the media have seen an opportunity. Backs what that kid was saying that blog I posted.

Martin Samual - Spammer

Who do the other Daily Fail reporters support? I wonder if we'll work out a pattern...
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The Guardian article seems like media stirring to me:

- the same paper reported the AVB said the club AND players should b e ashamed of the results; from the quotes it was CLEAR he wasn't trying to blame others
- it comes AFTER Verts article, which was far more positive
- Sandro feels he's behind Capoue? Really??
- When did he blame members of the first team squad?
- Moussa Dembele would be first choice if he wasn't so crap at spotting a pass, or shooting or scoring ffs; even Shearer on MOTD2 lambasted him for running down blind alleys and not releasing people free into space
- Remember the Guardian is full of Gooners and Mancs that would love us to go into the usual boom-bust cycle again so any chance to stir (possible with a source from within who is in an anti-AVB in-house minority) they will run with it
- Do you really see Levy using a result against Manure (a team we've won once in 12 years) as a yardstick to judge AVB?

Down fall for this BS; if you're going to WHL and you are pro-AVB sing for the team so that the press can't add more fan to the flames

Do you think David Hytner has got nothing better to do then have a go at AVB out of nowhere.
I'd understand if it was one of the usual anti AVB media outlets like talksport or the like or one of Harry mates.
But this guy has been behind AVB and writing whatever the Tottenham Press Office direct him to like a boring club reporter.
 
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I noticed this on NewsNow.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Villas-Boas-future-doubt-White-Hart-Lane.html





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...elsea-wrong-man-Tottenham--Ash-Wednesday.html



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...s-best-thing--elses-fault--MARTIN-SAMUEL.html


There seems to be a pattern here and the above is from just one paper. Does seems as if the media have seen an opportunity. Backs what that kid was saying that blog I posted.

No its what newspapers do when they're handed a big story from a club.
The club reporter will write the main new story and then big writers at the paper write their say on the piece.
 
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