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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach
- Thread starter Bale
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charlietheyid
Banned
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
If you're happy, thats fine.
Im not.
And me thinking this club was about aiming high... Whats that? With Dawson and Friedel?
What a joke.
If you're happy, thats fine.
Im not.
And me thinking this club was about aiming high... Whats that? With Dawson and Friedel?
What a joke.
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
We just need a new squad. Phew, I thought we were in actual trouble.
We just need a new squad. Phew, I thought we were in actual trouble.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
I
indianspur
Guest
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
apart from a left back, no more signings please, weve bought enough and spent enough.
AVB has to work with what he has got.
apart from a left back, no more signings please, weve bought enough and spent enough.
AVB has to work with what he has got.
Cochise
Steve Carr
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
Not so much top level then, but I mean to say an advanced level, more so than an average Joe
Not so much top level then, but I mean to say an advanced level, more so than an average Joe
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
If the right players are available then I would like to see us sign a left back, a second choice striker and a long term successor to Friedel in January but I would be content for only the left back to go striaght into the first team. That said, if an obvious upgrade is available for any of our players, and we can get/afford them, we should sign them.
If the right players are available then I would like to see us sign a left back, a second choice striker and a long term successor to Friedel in January but I would be content for only the left back to go striaght into the first team. That said, if an obvious upgrade is available for any of our players, and we can get/afford them, we should sign them.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
If it can some quick googling brings up some other decent examples of managers that didn't play top level football.
This article for example: http://news.yahoo.com/five-greatest-managers-never-played-043121356.html
They rule out the likes of Mourinho and Wenger because they did play at some level and were left with a top 5 of: Gerard Houllier, Carlos Alberto Parreira, Bill Struth, Arrigo Sacchi and Guy Roux
Should be enough to end the "he didn't play himself" debate I would think. Then again, plenty of things I think don't work out...
If it can some quick googling brings up some other decent examples of managers that didn't play top level football.
This article for example: http://news.yahoo.com/five-greatest-managers-never-played-043121356.html
They rule out the likes of Mourinho and Wenger because they did play at some level and were left with a top 5 of: Gerard Houllier, Carlos Alberto Parreira, Bill Struth, Arrigo Sacchi and Guy Roux
Should be enough to end the "he didn't play himself" debate I would think. Then again, plenty of things I think don't work out...
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
If AVB is the wrong man for the job we must not keep him on just because us fans cannot think of an alternative manager or for some misguided notion that continuity is best. Who would have come up with Poschetino as a name to replace Nigel Adkins that's why we pay people like Baldini to be our DOF because there might be a small chance he knows the football world better than any fan? As for continuity, well Chelsea change their manager regularly it hasn't harmed their ability to win things and a couple of seasons ago West Ham failed to get rid of Avram Grant and were relegated as a result, Fulham will have a similar decision to make with Martin Jol.
So the only reason to keep him is if Levy believes he is the right man. Do we think he is? Well from the point of view of a simple fan I will make a case. Last season we were conceding late goals, he quickly sorted it. Last season we won the most away games in our PL history and amassed the biggest total of points. We were resilient and hard to beat playing right up until the last whistle. Yes we had one of the best players in the world to score us goals but you could argue that AVB built the team to play to his strengths. This season we have a record number of clean sheets. We have also recently won a penalty shootout which may seem like a small thing in an insignificant tournament, but being that our ability to win penalty shootouts has mirrored our lack of mental strength in other areas of our play I think that is an achievement in itself. So my point is he is doing many things right and in the end we are only 5 points off Arsenal.
However, he is still very inexperienced imo and it shows, after all he had no professional foot ball career and was not even an assistant manager before becoming a manager. The Lloris decision last week, the decision to get rid of Dawson, the club captain, when he came in before taking a proper look only to have to rectify this later, now what ever you think of Dawson that smacked of a rash decision, then criticising the fans when your team is not playing well only for the fans to start cheering but your team to still play badly, are all examples of his inexperience. It's hard to believe we are the first club where he has stayed for more than 1 season. I must admit I did not support his appointment but the board must have seen something so I trusted them I still do.
Overall, for me, he has earned the benefit of the doubt at this point but he needs to sort this problem with our attack out and do it quickly as we cannot afford for us to finish outside the top 4 this season. Although I hate saying this, He has to prioritise his best team in the league, imo never play Defoe and Soldado together, do not slavishly employ tactics such as inverted wingers or a high line but be prepared to mix it a bit and finally sort his **** out with ADE, we need him.
Just my thoughts after a frustrating day. COYFS
If AVB is the wrong man for the job we must not keep him on just because us fans cannot think of an alternative manager or for some misguided notion that continuity is best. Who would have come up with Poschetino as a name to replace Nigel Adkins that's why we pay people like Baldini to be our DOF because there might be a small chance he knows the football world better than any fan? As for continuity, well Chelsea change their manager regularly it hasn't harmed their ability to win things and a couple of seasons ago West Ham failed to get rid of Avram Grant and were relegated as a result, Fulham will have a similar decision to make with Martin Jol.
So the only reason to keep him is if Levy believes he is the right man. Do we think he is? Well from the point of view of a simple fan I will make a case. Last season we were conceding late goals, he quickly sorted it. Last season we won the most away games in our PL history and amassed the biggest total of points. We were resilient and hard to beat playing right up until the last whistle. Yes we had one of the best players in the world to score us goals but you could argue that AVB built the team to play to his strengths. This season we have a record number of clean sheets. We have also recently won a penalty shootout which may seem like a small thing in an insignificant tournament, but being that our ability to win penalty shootouts has mirrored our lack of mental strength in other areas of our play I think that is an achievement in itself. So my point is he is doing many things right and in the end we are only 5 points off Arsenal.
However, he is still very inexperienced imo and it shows, after all he had no professional foot ball career and was not even an assistant manager before becoming a manager. The Lloris decision last week, the decision to get rid of Dawson, the club captain, when he came in before taking a proper look only to have to rectify this later, now what ever you think of Dawson that smacked of a rash decision, then criticising the fans when your team is not playing well only for the fans to start cheering but your team to still play badly, are all examples of his inexperience. It's hard to believe we are the first club where he has stayed for more than 1 season. I must admit I did not support his appointment but the board must have seen something so I trusted them I still do.
Overall, for me, he has earned the benefit of the doubt at this point but he needs to sort this problem with our attack out and do it quickly as we cannot afford for us to finish outside the top 4 this season. Although I hate saying this, He has to prioritise his best team in the league, imo never play Defoe and Soldado together, do not slavishly employ tactics such as inverted wingers or a high line but be prepared to mix it a bit and finally sort his **** out with ADE, we need him.
Just my thoughts after a frustrating day. COYFS
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
eh? YOU gave me the three options of sandro, dembele and paulinho.....of which paulinho is the best most consistent and varied short range passer of the lot
if you wanted others to compare to then i would have thrown others into the mix...capoue, eriksen, lamela, siggy, holtby all better passers than sandro
what am i supposed to do with just the three options you feed me on the table?
edit:- wenger will get this lot to move the ball quicker nd make them occupy spaces better. YES..i say this categorically
double edit:- and besides if you are indeed the guy i had that discussion with , what happened to all the dudes you said could thread the needle? i swear you even added lennon to that list of creative players that could slip a ball through to attacking players?
what thread was it...ws it the soldado thread where i asked who would be feeding him? i honestly cant remember...there is no way it could be you to be honest cause that would be a rich u turn. not just one or two or three but an entire squad of changed opinions.
eh? YOU gave me the three options of sandro, dembele and paulinho.....of which paulinho is the best most consistent and varied short range passer of the lot
if you wanted others to compare to then i would have thrown others into the mix...capoue, eriksen, lamela, siggy, holtby all better passers than sandro
what am i supposed to do with just the three options you feed me on the table?
edit:- wenger will get this lot to move the ball quicker nd make them occupy spaces better. YES..i say this categorically
double edit:- and besides if you are indeed the guy i had that discussion with , what happened to all the dudes you said could thread the needle? i swear you even added lennon to that list of creative players that could slip a ball through to attacking players?
what thread was it...ws it the soldado thread where i asked who would be feeding him? i honestly cant remember...there is no way it could be you to be honest cause that would be a rich u turn. not just one or two or three but an entire squad of changed opinions.
Last edited:
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
Or alternatively an acceptance that all managers make mistakes?
Just ask some reasonable Liverpool fan (if you can find one) about Rodgers, he's made some really strange decisions at times.
Or ask some Arsenal fans about Wenger. Well, perhaps not right now, go back in time 12 months though and ask, I'm sure they'd have one or two to offer up.
On Pochettino I'm not as confident as I don't follow Spanish football much and haven't watched Southampton that much either, but in the end he was let go at Espanyol. I'm guessing it wasn't because he made no mistakes.
Or alternatively an acceptance that all managers make mistakes?
Just ask some reasonable Liverpool fan (if you can find one) about Rodgers, he's made some really strange decisions at times.
Or ask some Arsenal fans about Wenger. Well, perhaps not right now, go back in time 12 months though and ask, I'm sure they'd have one or two to offer up.
On Pochettino I'm not as confident as I don't follow Spanish football much and haven't watched Southampton that much either, but in the end he was let go at Espanyol. I'm guessing it wasn't because he made no mistakes.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
I left out Capoue because he's still so unproven for us because of his injury problems. I rate him highly so far an higher than the other 3 in terms of passing, but others have disagreed completely including people that follow French football so I figured we were better off just going with the 3 we know more about.
Eriksen, Lamela and Siggy are all different players though. I was talking about central midfielders as in those that play in the slightly deeper roles, or have done so for us. And so far this season it's been Sandro, Paulinho, Dembele and Capoue.
Do you think he would do that by changing the team selection or by improving each player individually?
eh? YOU gave me the three options of sandro, dembele and paulinho.....of which paulinho is the best most consistent and varied short range passer of the lot
if you wanted others to compare to then i would have thrown others into the mix...capoue, eriksen, lamela, siggy all better passers than sandro
what am i supposed to do with just the three options you feed me on the table?
edit:- wenger will get this lot to move the ball quicker nd make them occupy spaces better. YES..i say this categorically
I left out Capoue because he's still so unproven for us because of his injury problems. I rate him highly so far an higher than the other 3 in terms of passing, but others have disagreed completely including people that follow French football so I figured we were better off just going with the 3 we know more about.
Eriksen, Lamela and Siggy are all different players though. I was talking about central midfielders as in those that play in the slightly deeper roles, or have done so for us. And so far this season it's been Sandro, Paulinho, Dembele and Capoue.
Do you think he would do that by changing the team selection or by improving each player individually?
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
Some of the debate here about 442 is misguided. It doesn't matter about the formation. It is the style of play that is troubling us at the moment.
But we have to look at it like, this is what it is, and this is what it will be. We aren't suddenly going to be playing quick tempo. We are being coaches to play a tempo that takes care of the ball, that plays the action as far away from our goal as possible, and probes for an opening. To bemoan the tempo is to say that this strategy has no benefits, while others are guaranteed to be better. But I've seen us play plenty of times under Harry like Liverpool and Arsenal have done this season, and I've also seen us try and play the same way and go on awful runs of form. And that is with players like Bale, Modric and Van der Vaart who should be able to cut teams apart. Changing manager isn't the solution, changing formation isn't the solution and changing tempo isn't the solution. We have to get better at what we are trying to do. The idea will be that once this works, once we get accustomed to it then we will reap the benefits. Until that point there will be some pain but that is natural with transition.
Our style can work. It worked against Norwich and Swansea earlier this season, and it worked for half a game against Chelsea. It works for away matches better because it lends itself to frustrating the crowd and giving the opposition less of the ball. But there are clearly still teething problems. Not entirely unexpected but this is what we are trying to achieve.
Out of interest - Milo, have you read the book that those stats come from? I was at a lecture by the author a couple of weeks back and it was interesting to hear his studies. He said if he was a chairman he would bankroll massive spending on defenders because they win the points ultimately. Stats back that up. So I think AVBs style (and Potchettino's) is informed by this kind of research. They are operating on the premise that not conceding is vital and also melding that with a strategy to score at the best times. Southampton are doing really well at the moment but we will see how it continues for them. It may be that it is harder for us to play this style because there is a different strategy to overcome as a top team in this league. I really like Potchettino though and hope he is our next manager when the time comes.
Some of the debate here about 442 is misguided. It doesn't matter about the formation. It is the style of play that is troubling us at the moment.
But we have to look at it like, this is what it is, and this is what it will be. We aren't suddenly going to be playing quick tempo. We are being coaches to play a tempo that takes care of the ball, that plays the action as far away from our goal as possible, and probes for an opening. To bemoan the tempo is to say that this strategy has no benefits, while others are guaranteed to be better. But I've seen us play plenty of times under Harry like Liverpool and Arsenal have done this season, and I've also seen us try and play the same way and go on awful runs of form. And that is with players like Bale, Modric and Van der Vaart who should be able to cut teams apart. Changing manager isn't the solution, changing formation isn't the solution and changing tempo isn't the solution. We have to get better at what we are trying to do. The idea will be that once this works, once we get accustomed to it then we will reap the benefits. Until that point there will be some pain but that is natural with transition.
Our style can work. It worked against Norwich and Swansea earlier this season, and it worked for half a game against Chelsea. It works for away matches better because it lends itself to frustrating the crowd and giving the opposition less of the ball. But there are clearly still teething problems. Not entirely unexpected but this is what we are trying to achieve.
Out of interest - Milo, have you read the book that those stats come from? I was at a lecture by the author a couple of weeks back and it was interesting to hear his studies. He said if he was a chairman he would bankroll massive spending on defenders because they win the points ultimately. Stats back that up. So I think AVBs style (and Potchettino's) is informed by this kind of research. They are operating on the premise that not conceding is vital and also melding that with a strategy to score at the best times. Southampton are doing really well at the moment but we will see how it continues for them. It may be that it is harder for us to play this style because there is a different strategy to overcome as a top team in this league. I really like Potchettino though and hope he is our next manager when the time comes.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
I don't want to be accused of being an 'AVB out' man so for balance, he has sorted our away form out which he deserves credit for.
But his subs are appalling. He seldom gets it right.
I can imagine him waffling on during training/before games going into 90 minute discussions about tactics and boring the players to tears.
By all means in games against the top 6 be cautious and make sure you're sound at the back, but for GHod sake, against everybody else, just let them run riot so to speak like we used to under Jol/Redknapp.
I don't want to be accused of being an 'AVB out' man so for balance, he has sorted our away form out which he deserves credit for.
But his subs are appalling. He seldom gets it right.
I can imagine him waffling on during training/before games going into 90 minute discussions about tactics and boring the players to tears.
By all means in games against the top 6 be cautious and make sure you're sound at the back, but for GHod sake, against everybody else, just let them run riot so to speak like we used to under Jol/Redknapp.
Kingdawson
Banned
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
It's not just "teething problems" after 1 and a quarter years and the sooner you come to realise and accept that the better.
The style AVB is trying to implement will never work for a sustained period at Home...NEVER. It worked against Swansea? you mean that scrappy 1-0 win which we barely deserved? that's what you claim 'worked'?
Away from home it has worked and will continue working but at the Lane it's a no go and the sooner he abandons it or at least makes some drastic changes we're going to be saying the same thing next season..and the season after...and the season after that.
It's not just "teething problems" after 1 and a quarter years and the sooner you come to realise and accept that the better.
The style AVB is trying to implement will never work for a sustained period at Home...NEVER. It worked against Swansea? you mean that scrappy 1-0 win which we barely deserved? that's what you claim 'worked'?
Away from home it has worked and will continue working but at the Lane it's a no go and the sooner he abandons it or at least makes some drastic changes we're going to be saying the same thing next season..and the season after...and the season after that.