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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

Argh, we're doing so well and people here continually trying to tinkle over everything. Wicked people are loving avb, like pele are saying its INFINTELY better than the tacos who who slag him off for no reason. And so what if its like. Cult, football IS LIKE A CULT, we love sirs no matter what and would follow them al lover the world, we have an instant connection with fellow spurs fans, you can't get more cult. But I'd prefer our cult to be a positive one where we BELIEVE we are amazing, believe we have an amazing manager and amazing players.

So much better than moaning about everything, slagging the manager off and the players off every day. So so so much better.

I would go one step further and ban everyone from the cult of glory glory who is an unreasonable, unintelligent negative bast too to be honest :)

Like?

Spurs IS my religion ....
 
I think if we had it, Levy would give more of it to AVB because his philosophy matches Levy's (as discussed a while back, Levy and Harry always had differing views of the market in this regard, and a compromise could never quite be reached)...but in the event, I think it will turn out that he will get less than Harry in this window anyway.

agree with this totally.

and its pretty much nailed on that he wont get as much money this january as harry did in his first window....for obvious reasons
 
There is a growing reality for us that despite one season in the CL, unless we want to do a Leeds so-to-speak, there has to be enormous prudence in purchasing. The size of our stadium is a physical reality. Again, I expect us to be very very shrewd in the market both now and in the summer (unless we end up selling)...

agreed
 
there is actually no doubt that redknapp was cut off more and more after that first window but whatever....i want to focus on the part in bold

so at this point in time would you say that AVB has been supported and are you saying that you dont think he'll be supported as much as redknapp? i'm not even going to waste time talking about signings with intent or signature transfers ... use whatever criteria you want. your saying that AVB wont be financially backed more than Harry was or at least you dont think he will be. irrespective of the reasons behind the money...just numbers according to you, do you think AVB receives levy blessings more or less or thereabouts the same as Harry?

I included Berbatov because I thought it was relevant. The Keane money was well and truly spent by the end of the summer of '08 when we had signed Pav, Bentley, Modric, Corluka, Gomes and Gio. Actually I was probably being a bit too lenient with the Berba money as a solid chunk of that was probably also spent in the summer window even though the sale was on the final day. I thought I could make my point while being lenient as it was.

So your point is that Redknapp was backed at first because we were in a bad position and then later on he wasn't backed when we were in a good position?

Meanwhile AVB was backed when we were in a good position? Although the backing you're talking of here so far has been a backing that has consisted of a net profit in the transfer market and even if we sign Moutinho without selling anyone else it will only be a £10-15m net spend in his first season in charge.

We did just about break even in 09/10, but after the January spending spree that seems kinda acceptable, don't you think?

Reknapp was backed in the market up to and including the 10/11 season. At least some of the money from the first window surely must be taken into consideration, even if just a part of that is included he averaged a net spend of around £15m per season in that time, his first 2.5 years at the club. Not insignificant money, and along with a reported fairly solidly increased wage budget as well, not helped by a growing squad size.

Again, if AVB is supported in the market substantially above and beyond a £15m net spend per season in his first two seasons I will be delighted. So far we haven't really seen any signs of that happening though.

After that time it will probably depend on a lot of things, like it did with Redknapp. It was only in the last 18 months he wasn't given money to spend in the transfer market. Again, we can speculate on the reasons here if we want to.
 
I included Berbatov because I thought it was relevant. The Keane money was well and truly spent by the end of the summer of '08 when we had signed Pav, Bentley, Modric, Corluka, Gomes and Gio. Actually I was probably being a bit too lenient with the Berba money as a solid chunk of that was probably also spent in the summer window even though the sale was on the final day. I thought I could make my point while being lenient as it was.

how did we spend the berbatov money if we didnt actually have it? you're talking about speculative spending i take it?

So your point is that Redknapp was backed at first because we were in a bad position and then later on he wasn't backed when we were in a good position?

yes

Meanwhile AVB was backed when we were in a good position? Although the backing you're talking of here so far has been a backing that has consisted of a net profit in the transfer market and even if we sign Moutinho without selling anyone else it will only be a £10-15m net spend in his first season in charge.

but you see here..your the guy thats classifying backing as net spend. not me. so according to your criteria...i guess whatever your saying here goes / makes sense.

I'm talking about backing when you make purchases that are intended to help you push on your philosophy and style , and the direction you want to take the club in.....which hopefully would be up. had AVB spent the same amount of money on youngsters....then i wouldnt have considered him backed. but he was give a 10 million pound player in his last year, a 12 million pound keeper and a 15 million pound central mid. thats making statements....not quite enough i dont think.....and i dont think that AVB was back ENOUGH as you could tell that there were corner stone type players that he wanted which he wasnt given

We did just about break even in 09/10, but after the January spending spree that seems kinda acceptable, don't you think?

yeah i can accept that. just like i can accept that the spending spree was done for a reason...which clearly doesnt concern you

Reknapp was backed in the market up to and including the 10/11 season. At least some of the money from the first window surely must be taken into consideration, even if just a part of that is included he averaged a net spend of around £15m per season in that time, his first 2.5 years at the club. Not insignificant money, and along with a reported fairly solidly increased wage budget as well, not helped by a growing squad size.

the wage budget was directly linked to the squad size, those arent two seperate things necesssarily..one covers the other due to the type of players we got. and that squad got us 4th so no issues there.
but yeah again if its net spend that your going by then sure.....i guess whatever your saying here falls in line

Again, if AVB is supported in the market substantially above and beyond a £15m net spend per season in his first two seasons I will be delighted. So far we haven't really seen any signs of that happening though.

we have a few more windows to see how this turns out......the net spend thing will be your line of thought...the purchase types and amount spent on them is more what i am focusing on......also where we are as a club and where the club actually wants to be going.

After that time it will probably depend on a lot of things, like it did with Redknapp. It was only in the last 18 months he wasn't given money to spend in the transfer market. Again, we can speculate on the reasons here if we want to.

strange that, i thought it was net spend primarily....just to be consistent we should focus on that...as this is the theme of the discussion, the other factors werent really taken in. Net spend(i actually think that is not a bad guage tbh. cause it'll show if the club are willing to actually INVEST in a vision).......forget the other stuff.
 
Affy:
Yes, for me net spend is pretty much the same as being backed in the transfer market. As long as it's the manager choosing the players being signed of course. But net spend is what the club has to work from. You can have all the good intentions in the world to back a manager with his style and philosophy, but without the net spend you're not really being backed unless you're taking some super long term approach - something we're not.

I'm talking about backing when you make purchases that are intended to help you push on your philosophy and style , and the direction you want to take the club in.....which hopefully would be up. had AVB spent the same amount of money on youngsters....then i wouldnt have considered him backed. but he was give a 10 million pound player in his last year, a 12 million pound keeper and a 15 million pound central mid. thats making statements....not quite enough i dont think.....and i dont think that AVB was back ENOUGH as you could tell that there were corner stone type players that he wanted which he wasnt given

AVB was backed in the way you describe, as was Redknapp. Apart from VdV and Sandro (and the youngsters) wasn't just about every player we signed under Redknapp proven in the Premiership, and most of them were over 25 and could slot straight in and perform.

Looking at the big money signings under both managers I don't think AVB has been signing older players, if anything it's the other way around I think.

Yes, Levy wants to sign younger players if possible. I think AVB does too. Redknapp seemed to focus more on the short term and there were reported discussions between Levy and Redknapp as a result. I think that's fine and the way it should be.

strange that, i thought it was net spend primarily....just to be consistent we should focus on that...as this is the theme of the discussion, the other factors werent really taken in. Net spend(i actually think that is not a bad guage tbh. cause it'll show if the club are willing to actually INVEST in a vision).......forget the other stuff.

I didn't make myself clear. I was trying to say that what kind of net spend AVB gets will depend on a lot of things, like it did with Redknapp. I still think funding dried up for Redknapp partly because he was publicly going for the England job for example. If come June AVB is angling to get the Portugal job or something like that I imagine he won't be backed in the transfer window either. It will also depend on results on the pitch of course, and the success of the players already signed.
 
In case anyone is wondering (And I was asked in another thread but didn't ever get round to answering it) I don't like AVB. Not at all.

However, he is the manager of the team I've supported for 20 years and therefore I want him to succeed as much as I've always wanted any manager we've had to succeed.
 
In case anyone is wondering (And I was asked in another thread but didn't ever get round to answering it) I don't like AVB. Not at all.

However, he is the manager of the team I've supported for 20 years and therefore I want him to succeed as much as I've always wanted any manager we've had to succeed.

Out of interest Roy - why dont you like him? I mean I dont like certain players etc just because I dont like their face - Di Maria for example I just hate the ****. Its irrational.

Just wanted to understand your rationale
 
Answered in bold within quote mate...

Agreed with everything...I would also say - I wanted him here since it became clear Harry needed to go too - that there has been clear improvement. The people that said during the shaky first few games 'stick with it, it will come good, there is a plan being put into action here' are being vindicated. I don't see how that can be argued. I know it was only Reading today, but the difference between this game and even the Villa home match for example (one of our better performances in the early days of his reign) is completely marked. So much better. Very clear improvements have been made.

We started off probably being a bit more safety first, but I think it was calculated. The way you build any team is to build from the back. He tried to make us solid at first - using double pivots even though he's stated before he doesn't like doing it as one example - and having us play a deeper defensive line than he would usually prefer. I think this is because he wanted us to not move too quickly from Harry's tactics, and also because of something he said while at Chelsea, that if you implement a new style too early and you hit bumpy results, the players lose confidence and revert to their old ways of playing anyway. So what he did, moving towards it gradually and slowly, meant that when he moved to his ideal style the players were probably actively wanting to do it, actively wanting to implement the new changes to add to what they can do, to help them. This is opposed to the Chelsea guys that tried at first to play his way, and then lost confidence and reverted back to Mourinho era style football. Which is fine, but it meant the forces of player and management were pulling in the opposite direction. A club is at it's best when everyone is pulling in the same, which we are.

I would say that the Everton game was probably the last one that happened before the transition to the style we are seeing now. AVB said that we would move up another level for the game against Swansea which was after a week's break and I think we have done. We fully deserved to win against a Swansea side that only a week or so previously won at Arsenal, and while we didn't break Stoke down, we have clearly played a style of football since then that more closely resembles what AVB was supposed to be known for. Pressing, patience in possession, intelligent movement. At the start of the season, the focus was on being solid, we had a more withdrawn pressing game. Then we moved on slightly with the introduction of Dembele and got some more improved performances, although I felt by that point we were adapting strategy game to game as opposed to imposing our own. But then, from Swansea onwards, I feel we are really playing what AVB intended us to play.

I feel that's a pretty fair summing up of the season so far - would anyone disagree? If people are apologising for AVB, it's because he received criticism 3 games in, and people were saying to give him a chance. Some people decided to be against him way too early IMO. We have seen clear improvements in terms of style and consistency. That will only get better once we sign players suited to this way of playing or our current ones learn it even better. It doesn't mean we will win every game, and we will have some bad luck and not win. We may have bad performances occasionally. But I think our chances of picking up points will be much improved in this second half of the season. We've gone to 4 of the hardest grounds in the first half and we are sitting in 4th if games go against us. Great achievement. We can push on from that with confidence now.

Another thing I would also say is that AVB has shown much more flexibility than people thought he would. They feared he would stick rigidly to his system and good players who didn't fit wouldn't get a look in. Well that hasn't been the case at all. He's shown himself to be adaptable, and has implemented his style within their strengths of our squad, and is improving players in the process. I really do believe Defoe has improved - I don't believe under Harry Defoe as a lone striker for the majority of the season would have seen us in 4th in January. But the early days of playing Defoe upfront by himself and getting through the hardship associated with that has seen us in a great position now, because if needs must Defoe can now do it again. But he's gone 4-4-2 because our current players are comfortable with it. And I really do think Bale and Lennon are making much more intelligent runs. Bale especially, still cuts in and swaps wings like under Harry, but I really think there is a process there now to doing it. It isn't as aimless as it was before. I can't really quantify that with anything, but it's the sense I get from watching the players. Everyone is playing to a plan and it's working well.
 
Out of interest Roy - why dont you like him? I mean I dont like certain players etc just because I dont like their face - Di Maria for example I just hate the ****. Its irrational.

Just wanted to understand your rationale

Everything from his mannerisms to his appearance. His voice just everything. His failures at Chelsea, the way he's compared to Mourinho, he looks about 16. It's very much my issue I'm aware of this btw lol. However, somehow, he's our boss so can't do anything about it.

I was gutted when he was appointed absolutely gutted. He's doing a decent job at the moment though so long may he prove me wrong on the footballing side of things.
 
Everything from his mannerisms to his appearance. His voice just everything. His failures at Chelsea, the way he's compared to Mourinho, he looks about 16. It's very much my issue I'm aware of this btw lol. However, somehow, he's our boss so can't do anything about it.

I was gutted when he was appointed absolutely gutted. He's doing a decent job at the moment though so long may he prove me wrong on the footballing side of things.

haha thats funny cos I can relate - I sometimes have this irrational hatred. Some people could ask me why I hate X and ill be like 'I dont know why' I just fudgein do. Its the way he ties his shoe laces or whatever haha.

I like his appearance and dont mind his mannerisms - I agree he has a strange voice but I just think he needs to have a cough once in a while.
 
crouch was 1 in 6? are you sure?

either was i respectfully disagree as well with how you see the criteria for a good and productive player

38 appearances in 09/10 8 goals
34 appearances in 10/11 4 goals
1 appearance 11/12 0 goals

73 appearances 12 goals = 1 goal every 6 appearance.

or based on time played

4174 total minutes a goal every 347 minutes.

Terrible record either way you look at it.

What exactly was it you saw from him that you liked? It couldn't have been certainly couldn't have been goals.
 
haha thats funny cos I can relate - I sometimes have this irrational hatred. Some people could ask me why I hate X and ill be like 'I dont know why' I just fudgein do. Its the way he ties his shoe laces or whatever haha.

I like his appearance and dont mind his mannerisms - I agree he has a strange voice but I just think he needs to have a cough once in a while.

I don't like his tight little black coat either. Looks gay.
 
Nah there has to be a balance tbh. You're moving into cult like territory if you're trying to praise him for every little thing whilst finding some sort of excuse for every criticism thrown at him.

Take the Scott Parker praise. Parker was deployed as a box to box midfielder for the Spammers and was regularly threading through balls/or attempting forward thinking passes. Arry bought him and deployed him as a defensive midfielder who's main job was to keep it simple. Scott Parker's defensive work was the main reason our attacking talent had so much time on the ball and looked so good....HE WON OUR PLAYER OF THE SEASON. Arry should have been praised over the hills for the decision to bring him here and the decision to deploy him in that role.

Fast forward today and posters are now saying Scott Parker has improved his passing and it's down to AVB :lol:. It's becoming tedious.

What's far more tedious is to adopt, as a default position, a dismissive attitude to those with whom you disagree, using a mocking tone or a pejorative slant on words such as "acolytes". No need.

Besides, it seems to me that you're doing something which is, at best, misleading, if not just plain wrong. What you appear to be doing is assuming that everyone who writes comments supportive of AVB agrees with every supportive comment by other posters. It's not an assumption that you can legitimately make. You're packaging up all the positive comments about AVB and attributing each of them to everyone who is broadly supportive of him. But someone who believes that AVB has improved Lennon's game might not agree with another's opinion that he has improved Parker's game.
 
I just don't see what difference it makes having Lennon come back too, he's not going to win a header. It's not a question of scoring from the counter attack, it's that you have no outlet up front and you don't have anyone to pressure the last defender if the ball gets cleared to him.

Because rather than hoof a ball up to Lennon to either chase down or get knocked off, we now try to hold the ball a second, release the runners and play them in on the counter intelligently?
 
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