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American politics

Diamond Lights said:
Was watching CNN interview a protestor and his words were "the police are cool with us, i think a lot of them are on our side".

He's not wrong that's for sure. And now it's come out a Policeman died. Thank GHod it was the hands of a far right white mob otherwise it may have been a real problem to tackle.
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I just saw that. He actually even said ‘it was weird’
 
Diamond Lights said:
Was watching CNN interview a protestor and his words were "the police are cool with us, i think a lot of them are on our side".

He's not wrong that's for sure. And now it's come out a Policeman died. Thank GHod it was the hands of a far right white mob otherwise it may have been a real problem to tackle.
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Interesting dilemma for the right wingers as they worship the police. Do they continue to blindly back Trump or do they turn on the people that stormed the capitol now that a blue life has been lost.
 
Rorschach said:
The pardoning himself thing will be very interesting. The legal opinions I have read say quite the opposite, that he cannot do this. I guess we'll see.

There is a list circulating (not sure if genuine) of the people he was planning to pardon on the 19th. Don Jr and Erik are not on it funnily enough.
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Don't forget that acceptance of a pardon has to be an admission of guilt. He won't want to pardon anyone who doesn't absolutely have to be as they won't want to make the admission unless they have to.

Equally, if someone has been pardoned then they no longer have the Fifth Amendment defence of self incrimination as they have no defence to be harmed. He may avoid pardoning those who are too close and know too much as they could then be in contempt and/or obstructing justice if they don't give evidence against him.
 
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thfcsteff said:
Errr...if you have to "create a plan" as it is happening, that is the biggest problem of all.

Proper logistical production work would've seen this coming from a mile off and the situation would never have unfolded. Security teams would've advanced the situation two weeks ago, from sniper positions to breach points. That no-one thought of double ring-fencing the building 50 and 100 feet out smacks of negligence. If that negligence was willful, then you have bigger issues even than what happened. If it was "oops didn't see that coming" then the idiots in charge need sacking and replacing with people who have a degree of fudging competence.

You're choosing to debate points with limited context. Of course given the fact they were outnumbered there was little more to be done, but the point is it did not have to be that way.

This happened because one man wanted it to. You appear to think otherwise.
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I don't know anything about the planning of it, so can't comment on that regard.

I certainly didn't know they were planning it, so it happened well outside of my tiny part of social media knowledge. The whole world knew BLM protests would be happening there because selfie-stick socialism doesn't work without an audience.
 
Boris and Farage are no better than Trump and those who voted for bloody Brexit, they are all part of the same tribe.

Trump labelled himself "Mr Brexit."
 
scaramanga said:
Don't forget that acceptance of a pardon has to be an admission of guilt. He won't want to pardon anyone who doesn't absolutely have to be as they won't want to make the admission unless they have to.

Equally, if someone has been pardoned then they no longer have the Fifth Amendment defence of self incrimination as they have no defence to be harmed. He may avoid pardoning those who are too close and know too much as they could then be in contempt and/or obstructing justice if they don't give evidence against him.
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And I'm not sure he actually likes the two Fredo's either :) He'd throw them under a bus in an instant. Not so of Ivanka and Jared though. They actually know where the bodies are buried whereas Tweedledum and Tweedledee are just vying for daddy's attention. Jvanka will certainly get a blanket pardon and then hopefully hauled before the courts to testify. And it gets more complicated. The jury is out on whether pardoning co-conspirators in a crime will hold when tested in the courts. That'll be an interesting one too.

I think Trump's belated concession speech last night was solely an attempt to stave off losing his pardon power in the dying weeks.
 
Rorschach said:
And I'm not sure he actually likes the two Fredo's either :) He'd throw them under a bus in an instant. Not so of Ivanka and Jared though. They actually know where the bodies are buried whereas Tweedledum and Tweedledee are just vying for daddy's attention. Jvanka will certainly get a blanket pardon and then hopefully hauled before the courts to testify. And it gets more complicated. The jury is out on whether pardoning co-conspirators in a crime will hold when tested in the courts. That'll be an interesting one too.

I think Trump's belated concession speech last night was solely an attempt to stave off losing his pardon power in the dying weeks.
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Pardoning co-conspirators is certainly untested but the pardon power is absolute so he'd probably get away with it even without a tame SC.

The really interesting one is if he's been bribed to give pardons. That has been tested and he can be charged for the bribery. Obviously that would also play into the self-pardon se he'd have to be impeached first.
 
scaramanga said:
Pardoning co-conspirators is certainly untested but the pardon power is absolute so he'd probably get away with it even without a tame SC.

The really interesting one is if he's been bribed to give pardons. That has been tested and he can be charged for the bribery. Obviously that would also play into the self-pardon se he'd have to be impeached first.
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The argument against is that one cannot be a judge in one's own case, which is self pardon counterargument too. A veritable constitutional rock and hard place case. And indeed I've seen the opinion that Trump pardoning himself and his cronies would actually force the courts into play.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/a-self-pardon-wont-save-trump/617592/

One thing yesterday's maga riot ensured is that there will be no forgive and forget now. Courts cases will be this year's big reality show.

edit: I meant to comment on your 2nd point. Bribing some with a pardon would in effect be a new crime outside of the pardon is what I've read so yes, that would be interesting also.
 
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Rorschach said:
The argument against is that one cannot be a judge in one's own case, which is self pardon counterargument too. A veritable constitutional rock and hard place case. And indeed I've seen the opinion that Trump pardoning himself and his cronies would actually force the courts into play.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/a-self-pardon-wont-save-trump/617592/

One thing yesterday's maga riot ensured is that there will be no forgive and forget now. Courts cases will be this year's big reality show.

edit: I meant to comment on your 2nd point. Bribing some with a pardon would in effect be a new crime outside of the pardon is what I've read so yes, that would be interesting also.
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The whole pardoning farce needs to be shutdown/abolished its positively primitive .
 
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