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American politics

monkeybarry said:
I don't think this will end up in end full scale uprising - mainly because the US is too spread out and the majority of Trump supporters are more mouth than action and won't want to risk their secure lives.

That said, the events of yesterday are a very normal early act in uprisings that lead to months of civil unrest - I think we'll see pockets of that.
There is a really interesting documentary about the Ukrainian uprising of 2013/14 - Winter on Fire. It's on Netflix if anyone has any free time :D:D
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brilliant documentary
 
Diamond Lights said:
So many thoughts after last night (i take an interest in politics/geo-politics anyway):

  1. nice to not have to read about coronavirus for a change
  2. the police and other security bodies will put on a show when black people are protesting, and arrested 14,000 people during george floyd protests, but last night, only 52 people were arrested for non-figuratively breaking and destroying the nations capitol building
  3. as i said on another page, this isn't down to trump solely but all those that enabled him, Cruz, Fox News etc
  4. This isn't over. After the return to the vote, over 140 republicans voted to block the Pennsylvania votes for Biden. If you thought "well finally they might learn their lesson" - they haven't
  5. yes it was good to see some republicans call out the horse brick, but bolting the door well after the horse has disappeared benefits no one
  6. the people who stormed the capitol today are the same people who found Kaepernick kneeling disrespectful (stolen from Twitter)
  7. they won't invoke the 25th
  8. Serial winner Trump has lost the House, the Senate and the Presidency. Unfortunately, it's his party now and the Republicans will not bring it back in the next four years. Expect more of the same and him or one of his lackeys up in 2024.
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I wouldn't be too sure on number 7 just yet. Mother might instruct Pence to start proceedings on this after Trump was mean to him.
 
Rorschach said:
I wouldn't be too sure on number 7 just yet. Mother might instruct Pence to start proceedings on this after Trump was mean to him.
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I get your reasoning but quite simply, they don't have the guts. Trump's almost ensured it won't happen because he'll just tweet his army of arseholes and they'll all kick off and storm the Capitol again baying for blood. So it's a risky manouevere anyway. That and the mini republicans still supporting him will kick off about other republicans being traitors, including Pence, and he won't risk that himself.

Secondly, his cabinet would have to support 25th and too many of them drink from the rooster of trump fountain. So again, won't sway enough.

Lastly, it's too late, as per point 5, horse has bolted.
 
Diamond Lights said:
I get your reasoning but quite simply, they don't have the guts. Trump's almost ensured it won't happen because he'll just tweet his army of arseholes and they'll all kick off and storm the Capitol again baying for blood. So it's a risky manouevere anyway. That and the mini republicans still supporting him will kick off about other republicans being traitors, including Pence, and he won't risk that himself.

Secondly, his cabinet would have to support 25th and too many of them drink from the rooster of trump fountain. So again, won't sway enough.

Lastly, it's too late, as per point 5, horse has bolted.
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You may be right on their spinelessness but there is plenty of insider info coming out that it is being considered. It is not too late as congress doesn't have to vote on the 25A. Pence just needs to start proceedings which required 8 department heads to go along with him. Congress can just postpone the vote by up to 3 weeks and Trump's presidency is over.

I think many of the sane GOP members are coming to the conclusion that leaving Trump in power is far more dangerous than not. 2 weeks is a big enough window to start a war, launch some nukes, foster a real insurrection (but not come up with a health plan apparently o_O). You are probably right that nothing will come of it but remember Pence was in the firing line last night too. His COS is barred from the White House which is another direct rebuke. Pence is already under the bus it would seem. I would rule nothing out at this stage.
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
What I do find odd is I told the wife this would happen a couple of weeks ago, as soon as I saw at Trump tweet on wait until the 6th...

why was this kinda unexpected?

the missus non-figuratively said to me this morning this is exactly as you predicted over here in sunny (icy) Bedford... are you some kind of genius (which clearly I’m not)

We know America is a huge country with many great and sensible people. Hell every country has their element of nutters too, it’s just rare for them to be elected to lead those countries.

But the lack of control and foresight here is just bizarre IMO. There was and is no way he was going out without a bang, to leave his mark and stroke his ego. It’s his whole MO and non-figuratively how people even know who he is

just very odd and quite disheartening in the modern age
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Which begs the question, why wasn't there a protocol in place for today - no necessary extra security as that would send the wrong message, but some kind of rapid response unit.

The intelligence services will have been aware of this and I'd go so far as to say it was more of an inconvenience than a threat - extra security or a heavy handed approach would have caused a far bigger incident; letting it happen shows the world and anyone that believes in democracy exactly what Trump is and what the consequences of supporting him are (and I'm talking about the likes of Ted Cruz here)
 
Rorschach said:
I wouldn't be too sure on number 7 just yet. Mother might instruct Pence to start proceedings on this after Trump was mean to him.
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I don't think they will - it will be spun as tyranny and create more civil unrest.
Best just to manage the situation for 12 days.

On what grounds could they justify that he is not capable of carrying out his duties? Perhaps you can argue he's "not protecting the constitution" - but we all know how well trying to create reason for the masses goes when it comes to interpreting the constitution.
 
monkeybarry said:
I don't think they will - it will be spun as tyranny and create more civil unrest.
Best just to manage the situation for 12 days.

On what grounds could they justify that he is not capable of carrying out his duties? Perhaps you can argue he's "not protecting the constitution" - but we all know how well trying to create reason for the masses goes when it comes to interpreting the constitution.
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I don't think they will go that way either but the threat of it might be the way they manage Trump's last couple of weeks. This statement from him that the transition will be orderly (it's not) may actually be that. Remember this will never actually face a vote in congress one way or another so any premise they come up with will only be superficially tested.

Another perspective is that zero accountability for this will just lead to a call to arms in every state capital. I've just read that there is talk of this repeating on the 19th but with added guns. I don't believe that will occur either but it's a counterargument against doing nothing.
 
Rorschach said:
I don't think they will go that way either but the threat of it might be the way they manage Trump's last couple of weeks. This statement from him that the transition will be orderly (it's not) may actually be that. Remember this will never actually face a vote in congress one way or another so any premise they come up with will only be superficially tested.

Another perspective is that zero accountability for this will just lead to a call to arms in every state capital. I've just read that there is talk of this repeating on the 19th but with added guns. I don't believe that will occur either but it's a counterargument against doing nothing.
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I was just about to post your first point about leaking the discussions might be the way to manage it - possibly even seeing what reaction it gets from the crazy people.
And that extends to the justification they give - it's not about creating a good justification, it's about not creating something that becomes the spark that sets of the tinderbox.

I think there will be lots of leaked talking about things and tweets and statements between now and the 19th whilst the intellectual services position themselves to stop any ringleaders.

Strange times.
 
monkeybarry said:
I was just about to post your first point about leaking the discussions might be the way to manage it - possibly even seeing what reaction it gets from the crazy people.
And that extends to the justification they give - it's not about creating a good justification, it's about not creating something that becomes the spark that sets of the tinderbox.

I think there will be lots of leaked talking about things and tweets and statements between now and the 19th whilst the intellectual services position themselves to stop any ringleaders.

Strange times.
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The ringleader is Trump ;)
 
milo said:
That's low. Even if you are trying to be funny. It's statements like this that give racists room to operate.
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Whilst said as a quip, I'm addressing what I think is a very serious point.

If people cry wolf and assume racism every time a rioter is shot by police (and that assumption was very much the case here and across social media) it lessens the value of the real calls of racism we make when we do see it.
 
scaramanga said:
Whilst said as a quip, I'm addressing what I think is a very serious point.

If people cry wolf and assume racism every time a rioter is shot by police (and that assumption was very much the case here and across social media) it lessens the value of the real calls of racism we make when we do see it.
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Not racism. Privilege.
 
You’re really not this stupid Scara so I’m not sure whether you’re doing this for sport or you enjoy being contrary in a manner most of us grew out of after college.
 
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