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American politics

scaramanga said:
I agree, but to say that the Republicans are the establishment is just silly.

We've had 8 years of a Democrat president and are almost certain to get another 4. If there's any current "establishment" it's them.
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i'm not saying that, i'm saying it's not a one sided govt, if it was they would have universal healthcare and gun control
 
scaramanga said:
The Democrats are in power - they are the establishment.
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Talk of "the establishment" has been endemic since the 2008 crash. It has been common since for political leaders to try and present themselves as outsiders (very hard for billionaires and career politicians) fighting against a shadowy elite who don't have your interests at heart. To do this they fuel paranoia of the unknown and try to claim that the media are trying to silence their message.

Over here we saw it in the Scottish independence referendum, we saw it in the Brexit referendum, from UKIP before that and now we are seeing a similar tactic from Corbyn. What Trump is trying to do in the States is the same.

It flimflam of course and just a way of trying to deflect scrutiny and exploit genuine concerns.
 
There has always been " The establishment" for as long as i can remember, its nothing new and it will always be there for some.
 
parklane1 said:
There has always been " The establishment" for as long as i can remember, its nothing new and it will always be there for some.
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The point I was making was about politicians trying to present themselves in opposition to "the establishment". I think that this is new and a post-crash phenomenon. I also think that it is largely posturing by politicians.
 
milo said:
The point I was making was about politicians trying to present themselves in opposition to "the establishment". I think that this is new and a post-crash phenomenon. I also think that it is largely posturing by politicians.
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I understand that, but there is nothing new in that either. But you are right about the posturing as that is something politicians are good at.
 
parklane1 said:
I understand that, but there is nothing new in that either. But you are right about the posturing as that is something politicians are good at.
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I don't think that you would have seen establishment figures like Michael Gove or Boris Johnson try to paint themselves as fighting the establishment until very recently.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Wow. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt here and assume he did not mean what he appears to imply.
Because if that truly was what he was saying - well, that would be far beyond the pale.
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Er, didn't he say he could walk down 5th Ave shooting people and increase his votes?!
 
milo said:
Which bit do you disagree with? That they are part of the establishment or that they were claiming to fight the establishment?
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The bit about you saying that talk of "the establishment" has been endemic since the 2008 crash and giving the impression that it is relatively a new thing. Its not it has always been in politics in my life time.
 
parklane1 said:
The bit about you saying that talk of "the establishment" has been endemic since the 2008 crash and giving the impression that it is relatively a new thing. Its not it has always been in politics in my life time.
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So you weren't disagreeing with the point in the post that you quoted :confused:.

I am not saying that people talking about "the establishment" is new. I am saying that mainstream politicians trying to position themselves against it has increased since the crash. I'm not trying to make a point beyond that, I just think that it is interesting.
 
milo said:
This is an interesting thread of Tweets on the "just joking" defence

https://twitter.com/x/status/763098172633657344
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That's a painful read (as in it's a chore to read). Write a blog, tweet a link to it. Much easier.
But on the subject matter : yes, agree. A joke generally either re-enforces your or your 'group's' belief in something, or alienates another 'group', or both. That's not automatically bad or wrong - it's all in the context of course.
"Just joking" as a defence is trying to claim the high ground : you have over-reacted to what I said, can't you tell it's just a joke.

Does this man even get the implications of what he says? It scares the hell out of me that a President Trump might be allowed to ad-lib his way through office (obviously it scares the hell out of me even more that there could even be a President Trump in the first place). With power comes responsibility - I don't see Trump having the ability to even recognise that, never mind live by it.
 
@Glenda's Legs - agreed, linked Tweets aren't the easiest to read but they probably reach more people than linking to a blog.

I see this morning that he has since tried to claim that he meant that gun owners should petition against her. Hmmmm.
 
milo said:
So you weren't disagreeing with the point in the post that you quoted :confused:.

I am not saying that people talking about "the establishment" is new. I am saying that mainstream politicians trying to position themselves against it has increased since the crash. I'm not trying to make a point beyond that, I just think that it is interesting.
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I was only disagreeing when i thought you were trying to imply that is was a new thing, you are now saying that you did not mean to infer that so i will have to accept that.

Although this does not make a lot of sense (I think that this is new and a post-crash phenomenon) which were your words :confused:
 
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