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Daniel Levy - Chairman

billyiddo said:
I don't really understand - the stadium has boosted our revenue and in turn the money available for transfers, that is unquestionable, but it still has a cost attached to it which means we aren't as 'rich' as the clubs overall revenue suggests we are or that we're suddenly going to throw money around like Chelsea or City.


As for this :

"We may have spent more but that's more down to transfer fees"


I don't even know where to start with that nugget
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Ok, let me put it in other ways.

Has our ratio of wages to revenue changed? We notoriously had the lowest revenue to wages ratio of our top 6 rivals.
Which players since the stadium was completed have we beaten clubs who we'd consider our rivals to the signatures of because of wages?

We have often shown every now and again that we are sometimes prepared to spend relatively big on transfer fees (Sanchez, Richarlison, Solanke), but we've often been told it has been wages as to why we've missed out on many others...
 
glorygloryeze said:
Ok, let me put it in other ways.

Has our ratio of wages to revenue changed? We notoriously had the lowest revenue to wages ratio of our top 6 rivals.
Which players since the stadium was completed have we beaten clubs who we'd consider our rivals to the signatures of because of wages?

We have often shown every now and again that we are sometimes prepared to spend relatively big on transfer fees (Sanchez, Richarlison, Solanke), but we've often been told it has been wages as to why we've missed out on many others...
Click to expand...
Romero and VDV are £45/£50m transfers
So is Johnson
Gray is £30m for a kid
We spend money
A lot of it
But we fact sold anyone until recently
You need both to work
 
glorygloryeze said:
Ok, let me put it in other ways.

Has our ratio of wages to revenue changed? We notoriously had the lowest revenue to wages ratio of our top 6 rivals.
Which players since the stadium was completed have we beaten clubs who we'd consider our rivals to the signatures of because of wages?

We have often shown every now and again that we are sometimes prepared to spend relatively big on transfer fees (Sanchez, Richarlison, Solanke), but we've often been told it has been wages as to why we've missed out on many others...
Click to expand...
I don't think our wages to revenue ratio has changed. But I'm not sure why it would or should.

Our revenue has increased, so if that ratio stays similar we're spending more on wages in absolute terms.

But more importantly. If we spent more on wages we'd have to spend less on transfers. We're spending more now. Would you rather have us spend less in transfer fees and more on wages?
 
glorygloryeze said:
Ok, let me put it in other ways.

Has our ratio of wages to revenue changed? We notoriously had the lowest revenue to wages ratio of our top 6 rivals.
Which players since the stadium was completed have we beaten clubs who we'd consider our rivals to the signatures of because of wages?

We have often shown every now and again that we are sometimes prepared to spend relatively big on transfer fees (Sanchez, Richarlison, Solanke), but we've often been told it has been wages as to why we've missed out on many others...
Click to expand...

I expect the wages to turnover ratio to increase over the coming seasons, we're in the early years of a rebuild, you can't rebuild if you are maxed out on your spending potential. We have a pretty young squad - as players prove themselves they will be signed to bigger and better contracts meaning the ratio will increase. As the team grows & progresses we will be able to attract a higher calibre of player that will demand a bigger contract, again closing that ratio. If we were currently operating at close to our maximum wage budget then we'd have less room to better the squad.

Squad building 101 really.

Also need to realise we have cleared a lot of deadwood from the squad the last few years, higher earners out, younger players in
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
Yep
So what they said is true then, right?
We have spent more and more as the money from the stadium has come in
The issue is its never enough
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Bedfordspurs said:
Romero and VDV are £45/£50m transfers
So is Johnson
Gray is £30m for a kid
We spend money
A lot of it
But we fact sold anyone until recently
You need both to work
Click to expand...

As has often been the case in the past, we spend often at the least optimal time:
- We back Poch with those summer 2019 transfers a year too late (after the final rots had settled in), they end up not working with all the subsequent managers we had most of whom had totally different philosophies

- We baulk at the prospect of buying Mane or Wijnaldum (presumably because we felt fees and wages were too high), but then end up that same summer beaking our ten transfer record and buying Sissoko...trying to save money at the beginning left us with a worse player who arguably didn't cost much less and degraded a lot of our midfield gradually over time

- We buy Reguillon, Bale only after we lose the first season game in 2020-21 to Everton; again only buying when pushed and not being strategic and seeing that we needed re-inforcements before that; maybe again Reguillon was a late panic and maybe conmtributes to him ultimately being a flop?

- Should i mention the eager pursuit of Djed Spencee even tough the then manager didn't want him? Can you imagine how things could have been if we'd bought Conte a RWB he would have wanted AND Spence?

Again, all of this is often of our own making, and under the same regime who, in my mind, have constantly shown they haven't changed despite the stadium rebuild etc.
Remember again how long it took for us to get MVDV bought and settled and the fact they left us short at CB when they KNEW Davinson Sanchez was going to be sold...
 
braineclipse said:
I don't think our wages to revenue ratio has changed. But I'm not sure why it would or should.

Our revenue has increased, so if that ratio stays similar we're spending more on wages in absolute terms.

But more importantly. If we spent more on wages we'd have to spend less on transfers. We're spending more now. Would you rather have us spend less in transfer fees and more on wages?
Click to expand...

I'd expect the ratio to change as we and when the ambition does. If our revenue increases, i would expect (if we are being ambitious on the football front, which was the point of the stadium rebuild) the proportion of that which is spent on wages to also increase.

billyiddo said:
I expect the wages to turnover ratio to increase over the coming seasons, we're in the early years of a rebuild, you can't rebuild if you are maxed out on your spending potential. We have a pretty young squad - as players prove themselves they will be signed to bigger and better contracts meaning the ratio will increase.
Click to expand...
We'll see.
billyiddo said:
As the team grows & progresses we will be able to attract a higher calibre of player that will demand a bigger contract, again closing that ratio. If we were currently operating at close to our maximum wage budget then we'd have less room to better the squad.

Squad building 101 really
Click to expand...

It's not a given the squad will grow and progress. Just as easy for it to regress due tom lacking real world class players to elevate the team, club etc. We are not the only ones to go through a rebuild and a team can regress in any year.
When we finished 5th last season (after quite a bottlejob, if we're being truly honest) a reflection would have shown that IF we wanted to better that position, we buy more than just mostly young players with potential.

If we finish closer to mid-table this season, would that not make it more expensive for us to push on in future seasons (why sign for a mid-table club unless you're being paid for more than those who were previously our rivals)?
 
I want rid of him, i want to go back to the glory days where we won a trophy once every 10 years and we finish bottom half of the table and are seen as the whipping boys. Oh the good old days when we had the best stadium name in the league “3 point lane”. Take me back to those days.
 
glorygloryeze said:
I'd expect the ratio to change as we and when the ambition does. If our revenue increases, i would expect (if we are being ambitious on the football front, which was the point of the stadium rebuild) the proportion of that which is spent on wages to also increase.


We'll see.


It's not a given the squad will grow and progress. Just as easy for it to regress due tom lacking real world class players to elevate the team, club etc. We are not the only ones to go through a rebuild and a team can regress in any year.
When we finished 5th last season (after quite a bottlejob, if we're being truly honest) a reflection would have shown that IF we wanted to better that position, we buy more than just mostly young players with potential.

If we finish closer to mid-table this season, would that not make it more expensive for us to push on in future seasons (why sign for a mid-table club unless you're being paid for more than those who were previously our rivals)?
Click to expand...

Of course it's not a given, why do you think that needs explaining? Lol

This summers transfers have already been discussed these past few days - but to recap my position on that : our first XI at the end of last season was arguably reasonably well set at GK LB CB x 2 RB CM x 2 (keeping in mind Ange doesn't play a 6) LWF - we added a CF and tried fir Neto for RWF - we mostly needed to add depth, which we did. This season we are starting to see more weaknesses in the starting XI having had more time with the manager & his tactics, so I think next windows will see us focus more on that. Once again not everything can be fixed in one window and a squads need changes through time.
 
billyiddo said:
Of course it's not a given, why do you think that needs explaining? Lol

This summers transfers have already been discussed these past few days - but to recap my position on that : our first XI at the end of last season was arguably reasonably well set at GK LB CB x 2 RB CM x 2 (keeping in mind Ange doesn't play a 6) LWF - we added a CF and tried fir Neto for RWF - we mostly needed to add depth, which we did. This season we are starting to see more weaknesses in the starting XI having had more time with the manager & his tactics, so I think next windows will see us focus more on that. Once again not everything can be fixed in one window and a squads need changes through time.
Click to expand...

I disagree with your reading of the summer transfer window; i think it looked like many others in our previous incarnations especially pre-new stadium and i don't really think Ange was backed in a way to push forwards from last season. Whether Ange's tactics aid on that front or not is a separate discussion for the other thread.

I guess we can leave it there for now. Looking forward to reviewing in February :)
 
glorygloryeze said:
As has often been the case in the past, we spend often at the least optimal time:
- We back Poch with those summer 2019 transfers a year too late (after the final rots had settled in), they end up not working with all the subsequent managers we had most of whom had totally different philosophies

- We baulk at the prospect of buying Mane or Wijnaldum (presumably because we felt fees and wages were too high), but then end up that same summer beaking our ten transfer record and buying Sissoko...trying to save money at the beginning left us with a worse player who arguably didn't cost much less and degraded a lot of our midfield gradually over time

- We buy Reguillon, Bale only after we lose the first season game in 2020-21 to Everton; again only buying when pushed and not being strategic and seeing that we needed re-inforcements before that; maybe again Reguillon was a late panic and maybe conmtributes to him ultimately being a flop?

- Should i mention the eager pursuit of Djed Spencee even tough the then manager didn't want him? Can you imagine how things could have been if we'd bought Conte a RWB he would have wanted AND Spence?

Again, all of this is often of our own making, and under the same regime who, in my mind, have constantly shown they haven't changed despite the stadium rebuild etc.
Remember again how long it took for us to get MVDV bought and settled and the fact they left us short at CB when they KNEW Davinson Sanchez was going to be sold...
Click to expand...
Your back to the past but we’re talking about how we’re spending now
 
glorygloryeze said:
I disagree with your reading of the summer transfer window; i think it looked like many others in our previous incarnations especially pre-new stadium and i don't really think Ange was backed in a way to push forwards from last season. Whether Ange's tactics aid on that front or not is a separate discussion for the other thread.

I guess we can leave it there for now. Looking forward to reviewing in February :)
Click to expand...

Apologies, only just got around to reading all your responses to my earlier posts.

Perhaps the reason I am optimistic about our spending power and our attractiveness to players is that we're following a successful model that has won trophies. It was always the way of Fergie and has been emulated by Pep in the modern era. Your core platform as a club comes when you start investing in younger players and they become the core of your team and squad for 5 years or more. In order to do this, you have to consistently spend and not just when you pocket from a major player sale, or get one-off CL final revenues. It looks like Spurs are now consistently net spending. As someone said above, where we still need to improve is by making even more from sales.

When I study websites like this (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tottenham-hotspur/alletransfers/verein/148) I feel that the trend is positive. You see spending year after year. You see an opportunity to get a couple wrong and it doesn't affect the overall direction of travel too much.

I also think Ange's tactics will have a bigger impact on our success that sales or purchases. It definitely has with Pep even though people want to talk about the players. I'm still on the fence whether it will be the same with Ange, but try to stay in his corner.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
They talk about it on the athletic this week
He inherited Hugo, Walker, Verts, rose, Dembele, eriksen, Kane, who were al part of his peak side
We added Toby, Dier, Wanyama, Son and Dele to the group
And we had players like Lamela, Chadli and winks here all rest
Wimmer came and went
Trippier and Davies joined under his watch too
The key is he did inherit the core of his team. They were here. Others were added as Shiism be the case in backing him
The issue was that when we frank backed him in the summer before he left, he was given no time with those players
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I think this needs context.
The players he inherited who were part of his peak side were mostly not close to finisished realised articles. In fact, Kane was raw, Rose had been loaned for a while and was not a trusted starter, and Walker was still developing. So really, of the players he inherited who were core members of his time, only Hugo, Eriksen and Dembele could be said to have hit their strides, and even there I'd question whether Eriksen was the same player pre-Poch.

For me, what Poch did with what he inherited was unbelievable. Because it was not all that.
 
billyiddo said:
These quotes are from a few months before the summer window in which we bought Ndombele, GLC etc and had a 90m net spend (give or take) since then we've been one of the highest spenders in the league?

Did you mean to post those ones?
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For me, that summer says everything that was wrong.
Hindsight tells us that this was the time to part ways and find the right next step. Instead, perhaps because he couldn't stand the thought of being unpopular, Levy went out of his way to patch up with Poch, including sanctioning signing those two. Having done that, he then promptly allows himself to be snowed by that charlatan Mourinho and once he knows he has Mourinho in the bag (he would had to have had a written memo at least with him behind Poch's back) promptly sacks Poch knowing that he can unveil Mourinho within 24 hours.

I think it is perfectly fair to not quite trust Daniel in these moments. I still think the way he handled Poch was a total disgrace personally.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Romero and VDV are £45/£50m transfers
So is Johnson
Gray is £30m for a kid
We spend money
A lot of it
But we fact sold anyone until recently
You need both to work
Click to expand...

It is the wage bill which is worth looking at. When we signed those players, none were on large wages (I mean comparatively of course LOL).
 
thfcsteff said:
It is the wage bill which is worth looking at. When we signed those players, none were on large wages (I mean comparatively of course LOL).
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I think there's a reasonable argument to made that by paying a lower percentage of our revenue on wages than our "rivals" that it shows our relative lack of ambition.
 
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