Daniel Levy - Chairman

[glorygloryeze]

I don't really understand - the stadium has boosted our revenue and in turn the money available for transfers, that is unquestionable, but it still has a cost attached to it which means we aren't as 'rich' as the clubs overall revenue suggests we are or that we're suddenly going to throw money around like Chelsea or City.


As for this :

"We may have spent more but that's more down to transfer fees"


I don't even know where to start with that nugget

Ok, let me put it in other ways.

Has our ratio of wages to revenue changed? We notoriously had the lowest revenue to wages ratio of our top 6 rivals.
Which players since the stadium was completed have we beaten clubs who we'd consider our rivals to the signatures of because of wages?

We have often shown every now and again that we are sometimes prepared to spend relatively big on transfer fees (Sanchez, Richarlison, Solanke), but we've often been told it has been wages as to why we've missed out on many others...

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

These quotes are from a few months before the summer window in which we bought Ndombele, GLC etc and had a 90m net spend (give or take) since then we've been one of the highest spenders in the league?

Did you mean to post those ones?

Ha ha.

 

[glorygloryeze]

But we still have to actually pay for the player as well as their wages
We also have a huge transfer debt to pay not helped by not selling anyone in some time

That is all true. And we can point to the same regime overlooking all of that...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That is all true. And we can point to the same regime overlooking all of that...

Yep
So what they said is true then, right?
We have spent more and more as the money from the stadium has come in
The issue is its never enough

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ok, let me put it in other ways.

Has our ratio of wages to revenue changed? We notoriously had the lowest revenue to wages ratio of our top 6 rivals.
Which players since the stadium was completed have we beaten clubs who we'd consider our rivals to the signatures of because of wages?

We have often shown every now and again that we are sometimes prepared to spend relatively big on transfer fees (Sanchez, Richarlison, Solanke), but we've often been told it has been wages as to why we've missed out on many others...

Romero and VDV are £45/£50m transfers
So is Johnson
Gray is £30m for a kid
We spend money
A lot of it
But we fact sold anyone until recently
You need both to work

 

[braineclipse]

Ok, let me put it in other ways.

Has our ratio of wages to revenue changed? We notoriously had the lowest revenue to wages ratio of our top 6 rivals.
Which players since the stadium was completed have we beaten clubs who we'd consider our rivals to the signatures of because of wages?

We have often shown every now and again that we are sometimes prepared to spend relatively big on transfer fees (Sanchez, Richarlison, Solanke), but we've often been told it has been wages as to why we've missed out on many others...

I don't think our wages to revenue ratio has changed. But I'm not sure why it would or should.

Our revenue has increased, so if that ratio stays similar we're spending more on wages in absolute terms.

But more importantly. If we spent more on wages we'd have to spend less on transfers. We're spending more now. Would you rather have us spend less in transfer fees and more on wages?

 

[billyiddo]

Ok, let me put it in other ways.

Has our ratio of wages to revenue changed? We notoriously had the lowest revenue to wages ratio of our top 6 rivals.
Which players since the stadium was completed have we beaten clubs who we'd consider our rivals to the signatures of because of wages?

We have often shown every now and again that we are sometimes prepared to spend relatively big on transfer fees (Sanchez, Richarlison, Solanke), but we've often been told it has been wages as to why we've missed out on many others...

I expect the wages to turnover ratio to increase over the coming seasons, we're in the early years of a rebuild, you can't rebuild if you are maxed out on your spending potential. We have a pretty young squad - as players prove themselves they will be signed to bigger and better contracts meaning the ratio will increase. As the team grows & progresses we will be able to attract a higher calibre of player that will demand a bigger contract, again closing that ratio. If we were currently operating at close to our maximum wage budget then we'd have less room to better the squad.

Squad building 101 really.

Also need to realise we have cleared a lot of deadwood from the squad the last few years, higher earners out, younger players in

 

[glorygloryeze]

Yep
So what they said is true then, right?
We have spent more and more as the money from the stadium has come in
The issue is its never enough

Romero and VDV are £45/£50m transfers
So is Johnson
Gray is £30m for a kid
We spend money
A lot of it
But we fact sold anyone until recently
You need both to work

As has often been the case in the past, we spend often at the least optimal time:
- We back Poch with those summer 2019 transfers a year too late (after the final rots had settled in), they end up not working with all the subsequent managers we had most of whom had totally different philosophies

- We baulk at the prospect of buying Mane or Wijnaldum (presumably because we felt fees and wages were too high), but then end up that same summer beaking our ten transfer record and buying Sissoko...trying to save money at the beginning left us with a worse player who arguably didn't cost much less and degraded a lot of our midfield gradually over time

- We buy Reguillon, Bale only after we lose the first season game in 2020-21 to Everton; again only buying when pushed and not being strategic and seeing that we needed re-inforcements before that; maybe again Reguillon was a late panic and maybe conmtributes to him ultimately being a flop?

- Should i mention the eager pursuit of Djed Spencee even tough the then manager didn't want him? Can you imagine how things could have been if we'd bought Conte a RWB he would have wanted AND Spence?

Again, all of this is often of our own making, and under the same regime who, in my mind, have constantly shown they haven't changed despite the stadium rebuild etc.
Remember again how long it took for us to get MVDV bought and settled and the fact they left us short at CB when they KNEW Davinson Sanchez was going to be sold...

 

[glorygloryeze]

I don't think our wages to revenue ratio has changed. But I'm not sure why it would or should.

Our revenue has increased, so if that ratio stays similar we're spending more on wages in absolute terms.

But more importantly. If we spent more on wages we'd have to spend less on transfers. We're spending more now. Would you rather have us spend less in transfer fees and more on wages?

I'd expect the ratio to change as we and when the ambition does. If our revenue increases, i would expect (if we are being ambitious on the football front, which was the point of the stadium rebuild) the proportion of that which is spent on wages to also increase.

I expect the wages to turnover ratio to increase over the coming seasons, we're in the early years of a rebuild, you can't rebuild if you are maxed out on your spending potential. We have a pretty young squad - as players prove themselves they will be signed to bigger and better contracts meaning the ratio will increase.

We'll see.

As the team grows & progresses we will be able to attract a higher calibre of player that will demand a bigger contract, again closing that ratio. If we were currently operating at close to our maximum wage budget then we'd have less room to better the squad.

Squad building 101 really

It's not a given the squad will grow and progress. Just as easy for it to regress due tom lacking real world class players to elevate the team, club etc. We are not the only ones to go through a rebuild and a team can regress in any year.
When we finished 5th last season (after quite a bottlejob, if we're being truly honest) a reflection would have shown that IF we wanted to better that position, we buy more than just mostly young players with potential.

If we finish closer to mid-table this season, would that not make it more expensive for us to push on in future seasons (why sign for a mid-table club unless you're being paid for more than those who were previously our rivals)?

 

[Yiddo]

I want rid of him, i want to go back to the glory days where we won a trophy once every 10 years and we finish bottom half of the table and are seen as the whipping boys. Oh the good old days when we had the best stadium name in the league “3 point lane”. Take me back to those days.

 

[billyiddo]

I'd expect the ratio to change as we and when the ambition does. If our revenue increases, i would expect (if we are being ambitious on the football front, which was the point of the stadium rebuild) the proportion of that which is spent on wages to also increase.


We'll see.


It's not a given the squad will grow and progress. Just as easy for it to regress due tom lacking real world class players to elevate the team, club etc. We are not the only ones to go through a rebuild and a team can regress in any year.
When we finished 5th last season (after quite a bottlejob, if we're being truly honest) a reflection would have shown that IF we wanted to better that position, we buy more than just mostly young players with potential.

If we finish closer to mid-table this season, would that not make it more expensive for us to push on in future seasons (why sign for a mid-table club unless you're being paid for more than those who were previously our rivals)?

Of course it's not a given, why do you think that needs explaining? Lol

This summers transfers have already been discussed these past few days - but to recap my position on that : our first XI at the end of last season was arguably reasonably well set at GK LB CB x 2 RB CM x 2 (keeping in mind Ange doesn't play a 6) LWF - we added a CF and tried fir Neto for RWF - we mostly needed to add depth, which we did. This season we are starting to see more weaknesses in the starting XI having had more time with the manager & his tactics, so I think next windows will see us focus more on that. Once again not everything can be fixed in one window and a squads need changes through time.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Of course it's not a given, why do you think that needs explaining? Lol

This summers transfers have already been discussed these past few days - but to recap my position on that : our first XI at the end of last season was arguably reasonably well set at GK LB CB x 2 RB CM x 2 (keeping in mind Ange doesn't play a 6) LWF - we added a CF and tried fir Neto for RWF - we mostly needed to add depth, which we did. This season we are starting to see more weaknesses in the starting XI having had more time with the manager & his tactics, so I think next windows will see us focus more on that. Once again not everything can be fixed in one window and a squads need changes through time.

I disagree with your reading of the summer transfer window; i think it looked like many others in our previous incarnations especially pre-new stadium and i don't really think Ange was backed in a way to push forwards from last season. Whether Ange's tactics aid on that front or not is a separate discussion for the other thread.

I guess we can leave it there for now. Looking forward to reviewing in February

 

[Bedfordspurs]

As has often been the case in the past, we spend often at the least optimal time:
- We back Poch with those summer 2019 transfers a year too late (after the final rots had settled in), they end up not working with all the subsequent managers we had most of whom had totally different philosophies

- We baulk at the prospect of buying Mane or Wijnaldum (presumably because we felt fees and wages were too high), but then end up that same summer beaking our ten transfer record and buying Sissoko...trying to save money at the beginning left us with a worse player who arguably didn't cost much less and degraded a lot of our midfield gradually over time

- We buy Reguillon, Bale only after we lose the first season game in 2020-21 to Everton; again only buying when pushed and not being strategic and seeing that we needed re-inforcements before that; maybe again Reguillon was a late panic and maybe conmtributes to him ultimately being a flop?

- Should i mention the eager pursuit of Djed Spencee even tough the then manager didn't want him? Can you imagine how things could have been if we'd bought Conte a RWB he would have wanted AND Spence?

Again, all of this is often of our own making, and under the same regime who, in my mind, have constantly shown they haven't changed despite the stadium rebuild etc.
Remember again how long it took for us to get MVDV bought and settled and the fact they left us short at CB when they KNEW Davinson Sanchez was going to be sold...

Your back to the past but we’re talking about how we’re spending now