Bishop
Paul Walsh
Gazza is seen as one of the lads, troubled but a "good lad at heart".
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Djed Spence
- Thread starter Jordinho
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NaijaSpurs
Cecil Poynton
And yet that Cup Final tackle aside people were not focusing on Gazza's temperament because it was accepted he was "as daft as a brush".
Even Beckham, there was a total "lovin' until he got sent off against Argentina in the WC. Then, and only then, were comments made about his temperament
Yiddo
Nayim
Not by everyone. People disliked Gazza because they thought he was a bit of a clam.
I think some people are talking a lot of gonads when they automatically make everything about race. Of course, there are people who target players because of their race, and that’s completely unacceptable. But that doesn’t mean every criticism of a Black footballer is racially motivated. Sometimes a player is criticised for the same reasons any other player would be, whether that’s attitude, effort or performances. We shouldn’t tarnish everyone with the same brush or assume the motive behind every criticism is racism.
Some white players rightly get labelled these things, some wrongly. Same for black players, people who have suggested these things with Spence are doing it rightly or wrongly because of what they believe they've seen - not because of the colour of their skin, it's utterly ridiculous to accuse people you don't know on a forum of doing so(and I know you personally have stopped yourself short of doing that)....
He's widely given a pass on here and by many, fairly liberal and decent, Spurs fans I know.
As Mathew McConaughey says in a Time to Kill at the end of his closing in the case "now imagine...."
Yiddo
Nayim
I called Hojberg lazy multiple times whilst he was here, its funny that no one had a problem with that. Do i go full circle and claim they don’t care because of his skin colour?
Nobody has said every criticism of a black player is racism. There's specific tropes and comments which feel like they are driven by some subconscious bias. I think it takes courage to see it.
There are posters on here who have a history of these things. And one of them cut out a critical bit of Anges statement on Djed to try tell their story. I don't call them racist. But it's right to challenge them when they are being irrational and using cut and paste quotes to prove something which they are the same time saying they don't believe.
NaijaSpurs
Cecil Poynton
Lets make it simple and stick to the issue at hand, let's forget about black players, how many white footballers have you ever seen described in print as having "an attitude problem", over to you, anybody.....
MartyFunkhouser
Vic Buckingham
Ffs
I haven't stopped myself short, I just haven't because I am genuinely interested to know why people see Djed as they do, I actually have to keep repeating myself in the fact I don't want to engage on the race stuff. Anyway so far, its been a whole lot of nothingness other than personality that doesn't align with their own and no handshake. No one seems to have much conviction about why they think he has an attitude, so if that creates a complex for them or others to question, thats on them
I think your comment on "what they believe they have seen" is accurate though, because there isn't much else other than perception over fact
Thats the difference I wanted to highlight between the examples you gave (Barton has done bird for example) and what people think about Djed
I haven't stopped myself short, I just haven't because I am genuinely interested to know why people see Djed as they do, I actually have to keep repeating myself in the fact I don't want to engage on the race stuff. Anyway so far, its been a whole lot of nothingness other than personality that doesn't align with their own and no handshake. No one seems to have much conviction about why they think he has an attitude, so if that creates a complex for them or others to question, thats on them
I think your comment on "what they believe they have seen" is accurate though, because there isn't much else other than perception over fact
Thats the difference I wanted to highlight between the examples you gave (Barton has done bird for example) and what people think about Djed
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Mosquito_Coasting
Mauricio Taricco
Don't think we should sell Spence for less than 50m. Good player, still young, think he has at least three years left on the contract?
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Luka Modric
It's important that players with such temperaments work in the right environment to reach their potential, certainly need a close relationship with manager and a mentor in the team. Sometimes it's far easier to ignore issues when results are good, many manager appear to do that.
I believed the move to Madrid was not right for him at that stage of his development it's a great club but full of egos and politics.
He's not a lazy player and I'm sure he'll be one of England's greats, needs suport and understanding.
MartyFunkhouser
Vic Buckingham
I think we live in a world where sport is medieval in its views, every player is looked and judged the same despite having very different journeys and circumstances. Thats why I hate and rarely engage in arguments about if a Championship player can come up and make it based on half a dozen players not or half a dozen making it like everyone's the same.
I don't think any two players are the same in sport, never are, never will be, you have to take each on their own merit. The problem is peoples largest prejudice IMO is likely not race (I think it does play at times TBH) but more bias and comparisons to others and not taking into account fact or circumstance around the person they are talking about
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Luka Modric
I think that's going to be difficult as it appears to me "attitude" has become an issue with the growth of social media, before it was born many fans may have thought it but didn't have the facility to tell the world what they thought.
Back in the dark ages I know that many fans thought Johnny Haynes (England captain, first £100 a week footballer) had a bad attitude but it was called lazy and arrogant in that time.
I'd rather he stayed but given he's likely to be backup I could understand that he wants to be first choice somewhere and if we can get 50m for him then I think that would represent a good deal.
Such a shame about last season, if we had Europe we'd have enough games for him and Porro.
Such a shame about last season, if we had Europe we'd have enough games for him and Porro.
NaijaSpurs
Cecil Poynton
In the current England side I can name Spence, Bellingham and Rashford who on occasion have been accused of having attitude problems, but you are saying that it is going to be difficult to name.a.white player.
How about if we expand it to the last 25 years any where else in Europe?
Heck, a WC player like Vincious Jr gets racially abused and you have some people,including Mourinho, implying it is because of his attitude
Now some people notice this discrepancy and realise it is wrong. Some don't, maybe it is an unconscious bias, or maybe it just a simple matter of because you are not black you might not notice it, it happens.
I just know that every single black friend I have that I discuss football with, be it in person or in a WhatsApp group, notices it.
I wonder where Craig Hope is now? You know, the Daily Mail journalist who said Bellingham should not go to the WC because of his attitude.
Anyway, this use to be a Djed Spence thread, and he did good against Mexico, and I sincerely hope we do not sell him to Everton.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Luka Modric
In the current England side I can name Spence, Bellingham and Rashford who on occasion have been accused of having attitude problems, but you are saying that it is going to be difficult to name.a.white player.
How about if we expand it to the last 25 years any where else in Europe?
Heck, a WC player like Vincious Jr gets racially abused and you have some people,including Mourinho, implying it is because of his attitude
Now some people notice this discrepancy and realise it is wrong. Some don't, maybe it is an unconscious bias, or maybe it just a simple matter of because you are not black you might not notice it, it happens.
I just know that every single black friend I have that I discuss football with, be it in person or in a WhatsApp group, notices it.
I wonder where Craig Hope is now? You know, the Daily Mail journalist who said Bellingham should not go to the WC because of his attitude.
Anyway, this use to be a Djed Spence thread, and he did good against Mexico, and I sincerely hope we do not sell him to Everton.
Before you get too hot under the collar with me I'm trying to make the point that's it's the sort of person who uses the social media that have created this "attitude" issue. People with extreme views dominate the internet and influence the weak minded. I've know and met far more white people with attitude problems socially and at work than any other group but I don't think its exclusive to them. I can understand how people feel targeted by this label as I feel the same when its assumed as I'm old I hold certain views and are responsible for all the ills in the world and our society.
I was just going to write something very similar
robp135
Terry Fenwick
What abhorrent things has David Bentley done?
robp135
Terry Fenwick
Ibrahimovic, Stephen Ireland, Cantona spring to mind.