Morgan Gibbs-White

[Bedfordspurs]

It was messy because Southampton accused them of tapping him up and weren't willing to sell at the time, but it was eventually sorted out by Liverpool "slapping the money down and getting their man". It was only as complicated as the expense of buying him.

Fee never changed
Then brought him for the original fee

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Actually I meant vvd, phone must have auto corrected.
Original post was that Liverpool went out slapped the money down and hey presto best CB in the world rolled in.
I seem to remember it being a bit messy.

My point isn’t that these deals aren’t sometimes complicated. Like I’m sure clubs thought they could get players out of us more easily and we held on, as well we should, in order to get the maximum value.

So what I’m saying with Liverpool is that they decided they were going to make a push, and then they did it. There were no excuses, there was no ‘this deal was just too hard to do’, they just did it. And if it wasn’t VVD, they probably would have got someone else at that level.

I don’t get the sense that we will do the same. And I don’t think until that changes things are going to meaningfully change for us as a club.

 

[DaveT316]

My point isn’t that these deals aren’t sometimes complicated. Like I’m sure clubs thought they could get players out of us more easily and we held on, as well we should, in order to get the maximum value.

So what I’m saying with Liverpool is that they decided they were going to make a push, and then they did it. There were no excuses, there was no ‘this deal was just too hard to do’, they just did it. And if it wasn’t VVD, they probably would have got someone else at that level.

I don’t get the sense that we will do the same. And I don’t think until that changes things are going to meaningfully change for us as a club.

It certainly helps to make that push with conviction when you’re flush from having £140m+ from Barcelona burning a hole in your pocket.

I take your point though, particularly that we only spend big when the leverage is with us.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

think it just feels like…when Liverpool decided they wanted to push to win the league, they decided they needed a world class keeper and centre back, and they went and got them. They paid record money, and they just made it happen. But when we discuss Spurs doing the same there’s all sorts of reasons why it doesn’t happen. We know what those reasons are.

I'll bore you with the obvious answer ...£135m for Coutinho...that might have helped when they 'just made it happen'

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I don't want to get into the whole convo but Levy is not our owner so not sure whey this is the defense. The issue is ENIC who can afford to invest more if they chose to, they choose not to.

Well he is a part owner to be accurate.

Hes the one that gets it in the ear about spending/investing. But as you say it's Enic who aren't investing, yes they may have the money, but they ain't spending it on us. That is crystal clear.

It's not a defense...it's acceptance of reality.

 

[parklane1]

It certainly helps to make that push with conviction when you’re flush from having £140m+ from Barcelona burning a hole in your pocket.

I take your point though, particularly that we only spend big when the leverage is with us.

This

I'll bore you with the obvious answer ...£135m for Coutinho...that might have helped when they 'just made it happen'

And this.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I'll bore you with the obvious answer ...£135m for Coutinho...that might have helped when they 'just made it happen'

I do get that, but we’ve had periods in roughly the same time period where Liverpool have been below us, and now they’re ahead. We’ve also had in that same rough time frame periods where we’ve sold key players for big windfalls, and haven’t pushed on in the same way.

Did Liverpool just strike it lucky? Or did they make some big moves, pay the wages required, and get after it? And are we just unlucky in comparison? I think the reality is that Liverpool just got after it.

And we know the reason. As you acknowledge, it’s ENIC. I’m not anti Levy, but there is a clear reality with our owners. We can talk in all sorts of ways about why we couldn’t quite make something work, but we’ve seen other clubs do it. They’ve been able to stretch themselves just enough when it matters to
make that next step,

 

[yiddo37]

Close the thread.
Was quite excited at the thought of him coming, now he's not...end of discussion.
We move on.

 

[RunTMC]

My point isn’t that these deals aren’t sometimes complicated. Like I’m sure clubs thought they could get players out of us more easily and we held on, as well we should, in order to get the maximum value.

So what I’m saying with Liverpool is that they decided they were going to make a push, and then they did it. There were no excuses, there was no ‘this deal was just too hard to do’, they just did it. And if it wasn’t VVD, they probably would have got someone else at that level.

I don’t get the sense that we will do the same. And I don’t think until that changes things are going to meaningfully change for us as a club.

How about Tel? We went in for him, then it collapsed. But we stuck with it and eventually got our man.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Close the thread.
Was quite excited at the thought of him coming, now he's not...end of discussion.
We move on.

I suspect he will still come in 12 months time, when we move Maddison on

 

[DeanoAustin]

I do get that, but we’ve had periods in roughly the same time period where Liverpool have been below us, and now they’re ahead. We’ve also had in that same rough time frame periods where we’ve sold key players for big windfalls, and haven’t pushed on in the same way.

Did Liverpool just strike it lucky? Or did they make some big moves, pay the wages required, and get after it? And are we just unlucky in comparison? I think the reality is that Liverpool just got after it.

And we know the reason. As you acknowledge, it’s ENIC. I’m not anti Levy, but there is a clear reality with our owners. We can talk in all sorts of ways about why we couldn’t quite make something work, but we’ve seen other clubs do it. They’ve been able to stretch themselves just enough when it matters to
make that next step,

Their revenue has been higher than ours pretty consistently and substantially for most of the last 7 or 8 years IIRC. I do agree that their owners are probably a bit more willing to take a risk than ours but it helps when you’re taking in more money.

The problem I have with the anti-Levy phalanx is that he’s become a by-word for our caution. It’s not really Levy. He has no wealth to inject. Therefore, he has to run the club sustainably. Where we say “ah, just spend the extra 5 or 10 million”, that’s a big chunk of money for no guarantees.

The problem is Uncle Joe or his family or whoever owns the majority of ENIC these days. They seem to have no interest in injecting the money needed and unfortunately Levy becomes the poster boy for that because of the position he holds.

 

[Muttley]

Their revenue has been higher than ours pretty consistently and substantially for most of the last 7 or 8 years IIRC. I do agree that their owners are probably a bit more willing to take a risk than ours but it helps when you’re taking in more money.

The problem I have with the anti-Levy phalanx is that he’s become a by-word for our caution. It’s not really Levy. He has no wealth to inject. Therefore, he has to run the club sustainably. Where we say “ah, just spend the extra 5 or 10 million”, that’s a big chunk of money for no guarantees.

The problem is Uncle Joe or his family or whoever owns the majority of ENIC these days. They seem to have no interest in injecting the money needed and unfortunately Levy becomes the poster boy for that because of the position he holds.

I agree with you when talking about any specific deal. Where I'm in a different place is having observed Spurs just buy quantity over quality over the years. I still think if we had used our budget on less players, but thrown a little more budget at each we would have found ourselves in a better place many more times. Obviously the most obvious example was Bale + Caulker leaving and seeing 7 come the other direction. There have been plenty more occasions where it's happened on a smaller scale though. The problem is, it then takes years to churn these players out and get the squad lean again. I do have mild concerns we are falling into this trap again at the moment.

What I would say though that this one isn't completely on Levy either. That was your point. I think he's been part of the problem, but not solely responsible for it like some would like to think.

We absolutely do need quality over quantity in the next phase.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

How about Tel? We went in for him, then it collapsed. But we stuck with it and eventually got our man.

I’m not arguing that we won’t sign a player, or even a good player, or even a player that costs up to 60m.

I want us to sign enough good, proven players to challenge for the title.

In the Tel example, was it not a phone call with Ange that got it over the line, rather than any specific point around deal making from the clubs?

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Their revenue has been higher than ours pretty consistently and substantially for most of the last 7 or 8 years IIRC. I do agree that their owners are probably a bit more willing to take a risk than ours but it helps when you’re taking in more money.

The problem I have with the anti-Levy phalanx is that he’s become a by-word for our caution. It’s not really Levy. He has no wealth to inject. Therefore, he has to run the club sustainably. Where we say “ah, just spend the extra 5 or 10 million”, that’s a big chunk of money for no guarantees.

The problem is Uncle Joe or his family or whoever owns the majority of ENIC these days. They seem to have no interest in injecting the money needed and unfortunately Levy becomes the poster boy for that because of the position he holds.

Yeah, to be clear I am NOT ‘anti Levy’. I’m also not anti ENIC in the sense that people say they are ‘cheap’ or whatever such nonsense. I actually think the people who are running the anti ENIC campaigns would have a lot more success if they actually understand what they are protesting against, rather than the caricature they have built up in their minds. ‘Profit over Glory’ and other such nonsense is extremely dumb and easy for ENIC to combat.

I am simply anti remaining as a top 4-6 club rather than a title challenging club. I want to take that next step. It probably requires different owners. I don’t blame Levy, I don’t even blame the current owners. I think they’ve done a great job, consistent with their strategy to get us to this point. I just want to keep pushing on. Otherwise other clubs will continue improving around us. I know that it isn’t Levy as an individual that is keeping us there, and I know he’s doing the job he’s basically been asked to do.

 

[Lilbaz]

I do get that, but we’ve had periods in roughly the same time period where Liverpool have been below us, and now they’re ahead. We’ve also had in that same rough time frame periods where we’ve sold key players for big windfalls, and haven’t pushed on in the same way.

Did Liverpool just strike it lucky? Or did they make some big moves, pay the wages required, and get after it? And are we just unlucky in comparison? I think the reality is that Liverpool just got after it.

And we know the reason. As you acknowledge, it’s ENIC. I’m not anti Levy, but there is a clear reality with our owners. We can talk in all sorts of ways about why we couldn’t quite make something work, but we’ve seen other clubs do it. They’ve been able to stretch themselves just enough when it matters to
make that next step,

They didn't make big moves. Didn't really spend more than us in the last 5 years. They just made the right moves.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I agree with you when talking about any specific deal. Where I'm in a different place is having observed Spurs just buy quantity over quality over the years. I still think if we had used our budget on less players, but thrown a little more budget at each we would have found ourselves in a better place many more times. Obviously the most obvious example was Bale + Caulker leaving and seeing 7 come the other direction. There have been plenty more occasions where it's happened on a smaller scale though. The problem is, it then takes years to churn these players out and get the squad lean again. I do have mild concerns we are falling into this trap again at the moment.

What I would say though that this one isn't completely on Levy either. That was your point. I think he's been part of the problem, but not solely responsible for it like some would like to think.

We absolutely do need quality over quantity in the next phase.

This is what I’m driving at. We’ve had at least two situations (Kane and Bale) where we’ve had a big windfall. Certainly with the Bale money we went for quantity, and typically we have to when signing young players because you need to spread the odds on how many are going to ‘hit’.

And maybe that’s all we can do with our turnover relative to Liverpool. But I feel like with the best stadium and the best training ground and the highest ticket prices and whatever headroom we may have from a PSR perspective, there is scope to improve.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

They didn't make big moves. Didn't really spend more than us in the last 5 years. They just made the right moves.

VVD and Allison were big moves. Wirtz is another big move.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

VVD and Allison were big moves. Wirtz is another big move.

That was 7 years ago for the first two

 

[DeanoAustin]

I agree with you when talking about any specific deal. Where I'm in a different place is having observed Spurs just buy quantity over quality over the years. I still think if we had used our budget on less players, but thrown a little more budget at each we would have found ourselves in a better place many more times. Obviously the most obvious example was Bale + Caulker leaving and seeing 7 come the other direction. There have been plenty more occasions where it's happened on a smaller scale though. The problem is, it then takes years to churn these players out and get the squad lean again. I do have mild concerns we are falling into this trap again at the moment.

What I would say though that this one isn't completely on Levy either. That was your point. I think he's been part of the problem, but not solely responsible for it like some would like to think.

We absolutely do need quality over quantity in the next phase.

On the Bale money, fair enough, we did go for quantity. And there was a fair bit of brick in that quantity. But there was also Christian Eriksen who became one of the most important cogs in the team that challenged for the league and arguably the best Spurs side in my lifetime. We also got Lamela who, while less successful, was a decent buy (as was Chadli to a smaller extent). We spread the risk and it arguably paid dividends.

Spend all that money on 1-2 players and you may get a van Dijk or you may get a Ndombele.

 

[Lilbaz]

VVD and Allison were big moves. Wirtz is another big move.

Wirtz was this summer. As i said over the last 5 years we've spent comparibly to liverpool. Yes vvd was big money. Richarlison wasn't cheap, johnson, solanke, porro, ndombele, lo celso, sanchez (€42m).
They spent their money efficiently. We haven't.