• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Daniel Levy - Chairman

Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
Incorrect, I think, weren’t we considered part of the “big 6 “ clubs that led the formation of the premier league back in the early 90’s?
Click to expand...
Big 5 as in the big clubs not Top 6 as in the teams that typically finish in the top 6 positions.

A subtle but real difference.
 
Bishop said:
Big 5 as in the big clubs not Top 6 as in the teams that typically finish in the top 6 positions.

A subtle but real difference.
Click to expand...

Whether it's top 4, 6 or 7 really depends on the European places. Getting into Europe is always the target. With English clubs doing well this season it might be that the top 5 gets CL.
 
Jordinho said:
Whether it's top 4, 6 or 7 really depends on the European places. Getting into Europe is always the target. With English clubs doing well this season it might be that the top 5 gets CL.
Click to expand...

Does anyone understand this? - https://www.footballseeding.com/uefa/country-ranking/2024-25/

Last season we missed out to Germany and Italy because ECL and EL hold the same weight as CL from memory.

This season we need all our English teams staying in (GGRRRR!!!). Then next season we can get back in ourselves with no UEFA football. (oh yes we can)
 
Bishop said:
No one gave a fudge about the top 6 15 years ago. Hell the top 4 only came into existence once the CL expanded so please, talking about the top 6 in the last 15 years is disengerous.
Click to expand...
While no one was worrying about top 6/4 we were languishing constantly towards the bottom half of the table relying on the likes of Rory Allen to become a star. Go back 10 years earlier and we were even worse having to bring back Klinsmann to save our butts!!

I get the frustrations but sometimes perspective is needed, it’s only since about 2008 we managed to catch up a bit to the top 6-8 consistently (15yrs of prem football) and took another 7/8 years before we managed to get towards top 4 consistently. That on its own considering the state of play is progress, there will be blips but everything is in place now thanks to a lot of hard work by the club for us to be able to at least be in the conversation. It might take another 15 years, some lucky recruitment, the right manager/style for us to really be in that hat consistently to win the league but the fan base has also changed, now instant success is the only option and unfortunately that just is not reality
 
demotw said:
While no one was worrying about top 6/4 we were languishing constantly towards the bottom half of the table relying on the likes of Rory Allen to become a star. Go back 10 years earlier and we were even worse having to bring back Klinsmann to save our butts!!

I get the frustrations but sometimes perspective is needed, it’s only since about 2008 we managed to catch up a bit to the top 6-8 consistently (15yrs of prem football) and took another 7/8 years before we managed to get towards top 4 consistently. That on its own considering the state of play is progress, there will be blips but everything is in place now thanks to a lot of hard work by the club for us to be able to at least be in the conversation. It might take another 15 years, some lucky recruitment, the right manager/style for us to really be in that hat consistently to win the league but the fan base has also changed, now instant success is the only option and unfortunately that just is not reality
Click to expand...


Another 15 years? So 40 years of Levy and then we can expect to win the league?

You take Stockholm Syndrome and you raise it by a thousand.

Instant success? Waiting a quarter of a century is considered instant success? When levy took over we didn't have flat screen TVs. Blockbuster video shops were abundant on the high street as the nations favourite entertainment centres. Woolworths existed. Nokia 3310s were considered cutting edge tech. Tony Blair was still liked. It was a different era. But yet you think we are expecting instant success? 25 years is instant success?

Are you a Greenland shark paid by enic to schill for them?
 
Batspur said:
Another 15 years? So 40 years of Levy and then we can expect to win the league?

You take Stockholm Syndrome and you raise it by a thousand.

Instant success? Waiting a quarter of a century is considered instant success? When levy took over we didn't have flat screen TVs. Blockbuster video shops were abundant on the high street as the nations favourite entertainment centres. Woolworths existed. Nokia 3310s were considered cutting edge tech. Tony Blair was still liked. It was a different era. But yet you think we are expecting instant success? 25 years is instant success?

Are you a Greenland shark paid by enic to schill for them?
Click to expand...
We have no GHod given right to win the league at all, that’s the type of thing I was talking about. We are not the biggest in terms of fan base/income/history so yes it may take awhile to win the league, in 100+ years under many different owners we have won a grand total of 1, yet you expect us to just do it now.

Put another way, Enic bought spurs in 2000 when the club was 121 yrs old. At our pre-Enic rate of winning the league we should win another one by 2121 🤣 so we have plenty of room left.

It took 19 years to get the right infrastructure in place, planning permission etc to get the training facilities/stadium up to the required levels, I see no issues waiting a little longer now the focus is more on the playing team for us to start moving forward
 
demotw said:
While no one was worrying about top 6/4 we were languishing constantly towards the bottom half of the table relying on the likes of Rory Allen to become a star. Go back 10 years earlier and we were even worse having to bring back Klinsmann to save our butts!!
Click to expand...

I do hear of that, I guess my point is more so to say the benefit of finishing in the top 4 really became a significant thing to do because of the financial rewards and prestige of playing in the expanded CL. In the 80s and 90s up until it became the PL we were considered one of the big 5 clubs but we didn't always finish in a top 5 position, we had multiple finishes in the bottom half but we were still one of the big 5 clubs.

That's different to the Top 6 proposition that's been built on the back of a cabal of winning clubs that yes we were the first to breakthrough and hold position with. So now yes finishing top is something tangible that wasn't the case at the time Saramanga mentioned it.

demotw said:
I get the frustrations but sometimes perspective is needed, it’s only since about 2008 we managed to catch up a bit to the top 6-8 consistently (15yrs of prem football) and took another 7/8 years before we managed to get towards top 4 consistently. That on its own considering the state of play is progress, there will be blips but everything is in place now thanks to a lot of hard work by the club for us to be able to at least be in the conversation. It might take another 15 years, some lucky recruitment, the right manager/style for us to really be in that hat consistently to win the league but the fan base has also changed, now instant success is the only option and unfortunately that just is not reality
Click to expand...

I hear the argument about a fan demand for instant success bandied around a lot but that's not really accurate is it? Most of the fans have been fans for decades, we've witnessed the dry spell, the failures, signings for 18 months but also the good times; CL for the first time, Bale torching Maicon.

All great times but it's not instant success Tottenham fans are demanding, its some success or at least for me a genuine attempt to succeed by utilising all of the avenues available to push the club forward.

My criticism of ENIC has always came from the position that there have been too many key moments when poor decisions were made.
 
Bishop said:
I do hear of that, I guess my point is more so to say the benefit of finishing in the top 4 really became a significant thing to do because of the financial rewards and prestige of playing in the expanded CL. In the 80s and 90s up until it became the PL we were considered one of the big 5 clubs but we didn't always finish in a top 5 position, we had multiple finishes in the bottom half but we were still one of the big 5 clubs.

That's different to the Top 6 proposition that's been built on the back of a cabal of winning clubs that yes we were the first to breakthrough and hold position with. So now yes finishing top is something tangible that wasn't the case at the time Saramanga mentioned it.
Click to expand...

I think there are 2 delineations nowadays. The first is CL vs No CL Football. The second UEFA vs No UEFA football.

We are about to learn the hard way about being a team that alternates between UEFA and non UEFA football. It will be a really tough gig going back to league and domestic cups.

CL is quite black and white as it's top 4. It might even be a top 5 soon if the UEFA coefficient comes back into our favour.

The UEFA one is much messier. You need to see if any of the top 4 win the domestic cups to see if the extra league places appear. Then you get a perspective that ECL is worth less than no ECL. Some want it, some don't. I don't think that top X is as easy.

What I do feel is that 6th has always been our wealth position, but even that isn't stable anymore.
 
Bishop said:
I do hear of that, I guess my point is more so to say the benefit of finishing in the top 4 really became a significant thing to do because of the financial rewards and prestige of playing in the expanded CL. In the 80s and 90s up until it became the PL we were considered one of the big 5 clubs but we didn't always finish in a top 5 position, we had multiple finishes in the bottom half but we were still one of the big 5 clubs.

That's different to the Top 6 proposition that's been built on the back of a cabal of winning clubs that yes we were the first to breakthrough and hold position with. So now yes finishing top is something tangible that wasn't the case at the time Saramanga mentioned it.



I hear the argument about a fan demand for instant success bandied around a lot but that's not really accurate is it? Most of the fans have been fans for decades, we've witnessed the dry spell, the failures, signings for 18 months but also the good times; CL for the first time, Bale torching Maicon.

All great times but it's not instant success Tottenham fans are demanding, its some success or at least for me a genuine attempt to succeed by utilising all of the avenues available to push the club forward.

My criticism of ENIC has always came from the position that there have been too many key moments when poor decisions were made.
Click to expand...
Well rounded post and while I understand all those points, while it differs from my own I absolutely can see why people would feel that way.

I think the only comment i would have is around poor decisions. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in order to understand if a decision is poor or not we need to know all the variables that made up that decision, which we don't. Take the amazing window of signing Saha and Nelson, we have no idea if these were primary targets - we may have been progressing and been given the green light by better players only to change their mind too late in the window, or the Bale sale for taking so long to happen - for all we know we might have had offers of 30-40m all the way until the last couple of the weeks of the window, had we taken that maybe we would not have got Eriksen or Lamela but instead just got Soldaldo.

If i was to criticise Levy there are a few elements that stand out for me. Firstly transparency, I get he is quiet but a lot of these grumbles would go away if he was open with how a window went or what we were trying to do as a club. The second and probably his biggest poor decision is the people he has around him. Trusting the likes of Hitchen when it is clear it is not working set us back for far too long. The rest, I just don't know enough as I don't sit in the boardroom so would be speculation only as to his failings (such as his interference with team/transfers etc or his reluctance to fund transfers).
 
demotw said:
We have no GHod given right to win the league at all, that’s the type of thing I was talking about. We are not the biggest in terms of fan base/income/history so yes it may take awhile to win the league, in 100+ years under many different owners we have won a grand total of 1, yet you expect us to just do it now.

Put another way, Enic bought spurs in 2000 when the club was 121 yrs old. At our pre-Enic rate of winning the league we should win another one by 2121 🤣 so we have plenty of room left.

It took 19 years to get the right infrastructure in place, planning permission etc to get the training facilities/stadium up to the required levels, I see no issues waiting a little longer now the focus is more on the playing team for us to start moving forward
Click to expand...
2 (and if you know your history!..... ;) )

If we set the clock ticking from the first time we actually ever had any chance, which was 1909 i.e. the first time that we actually set foot in the top division of football, it is 2 league titles in 91 years prior to ENIC.

Therefore by the law of averages - we're due another league title around 2045. :)
 
Last edited:
demotw said:
Well rounded post and while I understand all those points, while it differs from my own I absolutely can see why people would feel that way.

I think the only comment i would have is around poor decisions. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in order to understand if a decision is poor or not we need to know all the variables that made up that decision, which we don't. Take the amazing window of signing Saha and Nelson, we have no idea if these were primary targets - we may have been progressing and been given the green light by better players only to change their mind too late in the window, or the Bale sale for taking so long to happen - for all we know we might have had offers of 30-40m all the way until the last couple of the weeks of the window, had we taken that maybe we would not have got Eriksen or Lamela but instead just got Soldaldo.

If i was to criticise Levy there are a few elements that stand out for me. Firstly transparency, I get he is quiet but a lot of these grumbles would go away if he was open with how a window went or what we were trying to do as a club. The second and probably his biggest poor decision is the people he has around him. Trusting the likes of Hitchen when it is clear it is not working set us back for far too long. The rest, I just don't know enough as I don't sit in the boardroom so would be speculation only as to his failings (such as his interference with team/transfers etc or his reluctance to fund transfers).
Click to expand...

I always have a chuckle when I see the names Saha and Nelsen. It's like a stick to beat Levy with.

What had really happened was Harry was just being Harry and Levy was being Levy. Let me explain. Harry stockpiled players everywhere he went. We had spent his entire tenure starting the summer with 35 senior players trying to pair it down to 25 that we could name as a squad. The naivety of Levy running football ops to keep pandering to his desires and not making him work with the right numbers of players. We were haemorrhaging money on salaries left, right and centre on players that had no 1st team impact. Harry should have been sacked for the Pienaar debacle. That was Harry at his very worst. Harry used his transfer budget on salaries.

In a quiet moment Levy would tell you he learned a lot from working with Harry. He got done up like a kipper and then his manager had the audacity to start blaming him publicly. In that quiet moment Levy would also tell you that it was because he always tries to do the right things by his managers that he got it so wrong.

The reality on Saha was that he only ever got a 6-month contract. Nelsen was a free signing and so did he. They were both gone by the summer. So was the manager. It wasn't a biggie at all. The biggie was that the day Harry walked into our club we never got any manoeuvrability in the transfer market because our manager was a kiddie in a sweetshop. He had no type he wanted to buy. He just wanted every sweet on the shelf and then wondered why we couldn't make progress on the pitch. He wasted our money and had no DoF to stop him.

I'm so glad we don't have this nonsense anymore. For all Ange's faults, he is playing nicely with THFC. Unlike Harry, he wears a THFC badge and works for the company. We've got the squad lean and even in a crisis don't have Ange leaning out his car window telling us Nelsen and Saha are good lads and great signings for the future. Total conman.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back