Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Bedfordspurs]

We/Ange just needs some of that organisation for us to go places. ETH was in a fix going into yesterday (he still might get sacked regardless) but he at least made it difficult for his team to get beaten when he was up against the wall.
My worry is i haven't seen one do-or-die game when Ange has shown he is capable of doing the same...

We haven’t had a do or die game but he maybe Coventry in the cup recently… and hai subs changed the game in which we were awful by all accounts

Ange will never set us up to not lose. That’s not his way and the not the Tottenham way. It may be his downfall but that’s his call

 

[Grays_1890]

We haven’t had a do or die game but he maybe Coventry in the cup recently… and hai subs changed the game in which we were awful by all accounts

Ange will never set us up to not lose. That’s not his way and the not the Tottenham way. It may be his downfall but that’s his call

If we made the subs and we lost I don't think people are consistent enough to say "he tried" as the rhetoric today suggests they would, the needle would move in another direction I am sure.

 

[glorygloryeze]

But conceded 6 in two games previously so with what ever you give in football you taketh away. Yes last night was upsetting and not ideal but you can at least see a semblance of what we are trying to achieve against a side like United who are clearly going backwards badly under ETH. The two other than points are not comparable IMO

I can see what Ange is trying to achieve...the problem is no-one has achieved it without an open blank chequebook...more often than not such attempts end in failure that feels worse because it's like groundhog day

We haven’t had a do or die game but he maybe Coventry in the cup recently… and hai subs changed the game in which we were awful by all accounts

Ange will never set us up to not lose. That’s not his way and the not the Tottenham way. It may be his downfall but that’s his call

It WILL be his downfall unless it changes. If we beat Emirates Marketing Project and go on to win the league cup no-one will care, but that win was the biggest robbery since the great train one. I've never felt so hollow after a win, even a cup win, because of how absolutely atrocious we were. And that was Coventry, i'm already dreading our trip to the Emirates...and it's not exactly like i look forward to them...!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I can see what Ange is trying to achieve...the problem is no-one has achieved it without an open blank chequebook...more often than not such attempts end in failure that feels worse because it's like groundhog day



It WILL be his downfall unless it changes. If we beat Emirates Marketing Project and go on to win the league cup no-one will care, but that win was the biggest robbery since the great train one. I've never felt so hollow after a win, even a cup win, because of how absolutely atrocious we were. And that was Coventry, i'm already dreading our trip to the Emirates...and it's not exactly like i look forward to them...!

We play them at home .

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If we made the subs and we lost I don't think people are consistent enough to say "he tried" as the rhetoric today suggests they would, the needle would move in another direction I am sure.

I don’t get the obsession with subs
But that’s just me maybe
If we had a strong bench with experience like Sonny and Richy I’d get it

 

[glorygloryeze]

We play them at home .

I meant Arsenal...they play at the Emirates. We've already played them at home...

 

[glorygloryeze]

I don’t get the obsession with subs
But that’s just me maybe
If we had a strong bench with experience like Sonny and Richy I’d get it

It's not an obsession with subs though, it's a football management critique, in this case the lack of attempting to manage and try to change things.

Subs could have been made and we might still have lost, but not making them and saying we were playing brick and i didn't want to change it and get a 'false victory' is just bizzare and not something you hear from top coaches.

Ange has put himself out there as someone who only wants to win and isn't bothered by plaudits etc etc (remember his interview with in-house Spurs media after the West Ham home loss last season? Remember hsi comments after the City game about how he wants to win every game and doesn't care about whether doing so gives the title to our bitter rivals??) so that is why it is especially odd he would say what he said yesterday.

 

[Grays_1890]

I don’t get the obsession with subs
But that’s just me maybe
If we had a strong bench with experience like Sonny and Richy I’d get it

There was a doc about the idea of "super subs" a while back and the impact that subs made on results was under 10% (caveat its majorly nuanced because a sub made by a winning side that wins could be seen as an "impact" when its not.

I think they can play their part but I also think the idea you chuck players on and they magically turn a tide is not the full picture, with that I agree with Ange in that if those players on the pitch could not react to the issues, then we were fcuked.

 

[glasgowspur]

I can see what Ange is trying to achieve...the problem is no-one has achieved it without an open blank chequebook...more often than not such attempts end in failure that feels worse because it's like groundhog day



It WILL be his downfall unless it changes. If we beat Emirates Marketing Project and go on to win the league cup no-one will care, but that win was the biggest robbery since the great train one. I've never felt so hollow after a win, even a cup win, because of how absolutely atrocious we were. And that was Coventry, i'm already dreading our trip to the Emirates...and it's not exactly like i look forward to them...!

The win against Coventry was awful, strangely some of the players that came on and changed the game are the same ones that let us down yesterday by not showing up in the second half.
That is what he is battling against, as have all our managers going back as long as I can remember.

Ange isn't going to change, and I really don't want him to, what we need is someone on the pitch who will make the call and take it out of ange hands for 10-15 minutes.
Pull players into a slightly more compact and play deeper. Clear the ball, go down under contact take our time with dead balls.
Manage the situation basically.

 

[Grays_1890]

It WILL be his downfall unless it changes. If we beat Emirates Marketing Project and go on to win the league cup no-one will care, but that win was the biggest robbery since the great train one. I've never felt so hollow after a win, even a cup win, because of how absolutely atrocious we were. And that was Coventry, i'm already dreading our trip to the Emirates...and it's not exactly like i look forward to them...!

Hahaha literally explained perfectly Ange comments about "hollow wins"..........

 

[glorygloryeze]

Hahaha literally explained perfectly Ange comments about "hollow wins"..........

Yes, but you take such hollow wins and DON'T bask in them and also try to learn from them.
You don't say "No, we played brick and i don't ever want to win when we've played brick"...


It's not like we have never had lucky/undeserved wins in the past or even under Ange..

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There was a doc about the idea of "super subs" a while back and the impact that subs made on results was under 10% (caveat its majorly nuanced because a sub made by a winning side that wins could be seen as an "impact" when its not.

I think they can play their part but I also think the idea you chuck players on and they magically turn a tide is not the full picture, with that I agree with Ange in that if those players on the pitch could not react to the issues, then we were fcuked.

One reaction of like to have seen is us kill the game… fake the break like Arsenal do. Take so momentum out and get some tactical advice

Arteta does it all the time because he so the captain of their team. He acts like it on the sideline and they revel in it.

 

[Grays_1890]

One reaction of like to have seen is us kill the game… fake the break like Arsenal do. Take so momentum out and get some tactical advice

Arteta does it all the time because he so the captain of their team. He acts like it on the sideline and they revel in it.

Yeh and ideally you want the major players in the side to be smarter and lead better.

The theme that has constantly let us down for years is that lack of leader or players that hide, IMO subs don't change that. I would expect Romero and even Madders to have better "smarts" to get this game ground down to a pace where we win easily

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeh and ideally you want the major players in the side to be smarter and lead better.

The theme that has constantly let us down for years is that lack of leader or players that hide, IMO subs don't change that. I would expect Romero and even Madders to have better "smarts" to get this game ground down to a pace where we win easily

You would assume so
My nervousness with them as the leadership group is they ages never been the big fish
I think I’m right in saying the Romero never won anything in Italy and did win the World Cup but messi was the Leader
Maddison won a cup at Lestah?
Son hasn’t won anything here
None are leaders

 

[90291Spur]

If we made the subs and we lost I don't think people are consistent enough to say "he tried" as the rhetoric today suggests they would, the needle would move in another direction I am sure.

Not sure if it’s already been said, but making subs sends a message to the substituted player that there is competition for their place. For example, Udogie having a mare, getting a cheap yellow, could potentially worry about his place if Spence comes on and does well.

 

[parklane1]

TBF the subs talk is the stick to beat the manager with, I get it, its an easy win, but there was nothing about subs that stops a player slicing it after the restart into the path of the striker and one player waltzing past 4 players with 7 or 8 behind the ball with toothless attempts to get he ball, that was not fatigue or being bullied, it was players not taking a lead, that happens with or without the subs IMO. As @harr1984 said, I have seen this movie a million times over and yes we have given up leads plenty of times in the past in the same way.

At the end of the day, fine sack Ange, lets write off another season, have another two windows where we need to overhaul the squad because they are "not their players" and go midtable - midtable, at this point I am almost beyond caring, another year another manager..............great vision

Have to agree with this, fans are fickle [ at all clubs not just ours] as soon as they see us get a few bad results the same rubbish comes out. one of the main reasons we have struggled since Pooch was here is that as soon as we get a bad run/s the crys go out [ SACK THE MANAGER] and we do and we are going to have to stop changing managers every year or so.

It takes time to establish a decent team and sooner or later we will have to give that time to a manager, if not we will be back in the circle evey couple of years of having to find another one. One of the best managers the Prem has seen was Fergie at Utd, i was working in Manchester at the time and after two poor seasons under his leadership there were Banners in the crowd saying We want Fergie out, the Utd board grew a pair and the rest was history.

 

[Mikey10]

Ah but it’s only 10 points form 7
There is some spin if people want it
Which they do
Why look at positives when negatives are why some people claim to support spurs. teletext is full of it

But it is only 10 points from 7 games - added to the fact that our form in the second half of last season had us around 10th, more or less exactly where we sit now.

I don’t think anyone needs to spin anything. It’s reality and the league table at present, and the stats from last year, are there for all to see.

We may improve, we may not. I hope we do. Only time will tell but, for now, there is no denying where we are - midtable and playing with the consistency of a team that probably deserves to be there.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But it is only 10 points from 7 games - added to the fact that our form in the second half of last season had us around 10th, more or less exactly where we sit now.

I don’t think anyone needs to spin anything. It’s reality and the league table at present, and the stats from last year, are there for all to see.

We may improve, we may not. I hope we do. Only time will tell but, for now, there is no denying where we are - midtable and playing with the consistency of a team that probably deserves to be there.

5 wins in 6 is great form though
Does that not count?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Have to agree with this, fans are fickle [ at all clubs not just ours] as soon as they see us get a few bad results the same rubbish comes out. one of the main reasons we have struggled since Pooch was here is that as soon as we get a bad run/s the crys go out [ SACK THE MANAGER] and we do and we are going to have to stop changing managers every year or so.

It takes time to establish a decent team and sooner or later we will have to give that time to a manager, if not we will be back in the circle evey couple of years of having to find another one. One of the best managers the Prem has seen was Fergie at Utd, i was working in Manchester at the time and after two poor seasons under his leadership there were Banners in the crowd saying We want Fergie out, the Utd board grew a pair and the rest was history.

Is it any more "fickle" to call out some bad things being seen on the coaching/management front than calling out that x or y player "has never proven he's this good" or "always flattered top deceive" etc?

 

[glorygloryeze]

5 wins in 6 is great form though
Does that not count?

On paper, yes. But how many of the wins were against teams we wouldn't expect to beat or actively expect to lose to?
At a push, maybe you'd say Man utd, anyone else?

The point being when it's not 'easy' or it's going to be a tactical battle or 'hard game' we invariably don't win these days...