Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Bedfordspurs]

On paper, yes. But how many of the wins were against teams we wouldn't expect to beat or actively expect to lose to?
At a push, maybe you'd say Man utd, anyone else?

The point being when it's not 'easy' or it's going to be a tactical battle or 'hard game' we invariably don't win these days...

Well I’ve seen us lose to inferior teams to them before under different managers so for me.. a win is a win

No one likes to revisit the past correctly and we always remember the bits we want too but I’ve seen us fudge io Europa game enough times before
I’ve also seen us lose league cup games like we almost did
If people want to dig the team out for a bad game they should credit the team for a good one too

 

[Mikey10]

5 wins in 6 is great form though
Does that not count?

It does, for sure. The reality of some of those wins (both in terms of who they were against and the nature of the performances) perhaps paint a rosier picture than the reality, but five wins out of five is not to be sniffed at. Transferring that type of winning form from the cups to the PL is the challenge.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Well I’ve seen us lose to inferior teams to them before under different managers so for me.. a win is a win

No one likes to revisit the past correctly and we always remember the bits we want too but I’ve seen us fudge io Europa game enough times before
I’ve also seen us lose league cup games like we almost did
If people want to dig the team out for a bad game they should credit the team for a good one too

On the whole i agree with that. And i think people have been complimentary when we've won but are fairly calling out the losses when we lose (there have been plenty...)

 

[parklane1]

Is it any more "fickle" to call out some bad things being seen on the coaching/management front than calling out that x or y player "has never proven he's this good" or "always flattered top deceive" etc?

Well i suppose it depends on your/our outlook on what is more important, there are a squad of players in a team but only one manager. Seeing as he is the one that is a leader he is likely to get more flimflam from the fans then individual players.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

On the whole i agree with that. And i think people have been complimentary when we've won but are fairly calling out the losses when we lose (there have been plenty...)

Not really true
When we win the same people don’t comment. They don’t even post
When we lose… they quickly reappear to vent and rage and say I told you so
And I don’t just mean some on here
Twitter is classic sesspit for it

That first half yesterday was sublime
If they went in 3 up and we came back playing the first half football to draw the tone would be different which is kinda odd

The fact we collapsed like we did has people (Ange included) saying it’s as bad a defeat as we have seen here. Worryingly we have done that 9 more times before ….

 

[glorygloryeze]

Well i suppose it depends on your/our outlook on what is more important, there are a squad of players in a team but only one manager. Seeing as he is the one that is a leader he is likely to get more flimflam from the fans then individual players.

Sometimes it's the exact opposite though, and if that is the case where is one situation more "fickle" than the other?
I say it isn't

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sometimes it's the exact opposite though, and if that is the case where is one situation more "fickle" than the other?
I say it isn't

You don’t think it’s fickle that people don’t post on socials when the going is good but jump at it instantly … in seconds when something goes wrong?
It’s internet rubber necking

 

[parklane1]

Sometimes it's the exact opposite though, and if that is the case where is one situation more "fickle" than the other?
I say it isn't

Each to their own, as i say its up to the individual.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Not really true
When we win the same people don’t comment. They don’t even post
When we lose… they quickly reappear to vent and rage and say I told you so
And I don’t just mean some on here
Twitter is classic sesspit for it

That first half yesterday was sublime
If they went in 3 up and we came back playing the first half football to draw the tone would be different which is kinda odd

The fact we collapsed like we did has people (Ange included) saying it’s as bad a defeat as we have seen here. Worryingly we have done that 9 more times before ….

Goals change games. Wins change perceptions, continued collapses in Spurzy fashions often keeps those narratives going. Such is life.

You can have a manager that wins or loses, but it's the way those things happen over time that make people react one way or another.
If the losses get less frequent, moe heroic/unlucky then generally you get more of a benefit of the doubt amongst more people.
When it happens the same kind of way and is more predictable etc then of course you'll get the opposite (i.e. less positivity, more glass half-empty etc)

It has always been that way

 

[glorygloryeze]

You don’t think it’s fickle that people don’t post on socials when the going is good but jump at it instantly … in seconds when something goes wrong?
It’s internet rubber necking

Yes, it would be. But on the whole we don't see that here, just usually very measured opinion and reviews

 

[glorygloryeze]

Each to their own, as i say its up to the individual.

Indeed...

 

[djp82]

Not really true
When we win the same people don’t comment. They don’t even post
When we lose… they quickly reappear to vent and rage and say I told you so
And I don’t just mean some on here
Twitter is classic sesspit for it

That first half yesterday was sublime
If they went in 3 up and we came back playing the first half football to draw the tone would be different which is kinda odd

The fact we collapsed like we did has people (Ange included) saying it’s as bad a defeat as we have seen here. Worryingly we have done that 9 more times before ….

The collapse is the biggest concern. We go from as you rightly say sublime to pub team very quickly.

When a side picks up momentum against us the players look lost.

That’s got to be a mentality issue in the group. We have no answers to when it starts to go south. It’s like panic sets in. Poor choices start to be made all over the pitch.

It’s a bit of a theme. Even against Brentford at home the spell they had 10 minutes running up to half time we were a mess. HT came at a good time for us that day.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Goals change games. Wins change perceptions, continued collapses in Spurzy fashions often keeps those narratives going. Such is life.

You can have a manager that wins or loses, but it's the way those things happen over time that make people react one way or another.
If the losses get less frequent, moe heroic/unlucky then generally you get more of a benefit of the doubt amongst more people.
When it happens the same kind of way and is more predictable etc then of course you'll get the opposite (i.e. less positivity, more glass half-empty etc)

It has always been that way

When have We collapsed like yesterday previously?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes, it would be. But on the whole we don't see that here, just usually very measured opinion and reviews

I went online yesterday with 20 to go to see what was stalking …
That’s all I say

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The collapse is the biggest concern. We go from as you rightly say sublime to pub team very quickly.

When a side picks up momentum against us the players look lost.

That’s got to be a mentality issue in the group. We have no answers to when it starts to go south. It’s like panic sets in. Poor choices start to be made all over the pitch.

It’s a bit of a theme. Even against Brentford at home the spell they had 10 minutes running up to half time we were a mess. HT came at a good time for us that day.

Leaders
Leaders
Leaders
We don’t have one

 

[nattenskonge]

I dont get it! Yea I blame Ange the most about the loss, but now I see media say that fans are starting to say Ange out… wtf is this? I dont see fans saying this or am I blind? If media read X you can find ppl saying the earth is flat or the goverment makes the weather…
If we cant give him a real chance we will never make it! And I belive we are better now than we was under the last 3 managers.

In Ange we trust!

 

[SpiderSpurs]

I dont get it! Yea I blame Ange the most about the loss, but now I see media say that fans are starting to say Ange out… wtf is this? I dont see fans saying this or am I blind? If media read X you can find ppl saying the earth is flat or the goverment makes the weather…
If we cant give him a real chance we will never make it! And I belive we are better now than we was under the last 3 managers.

In Ange we trust!

There have been loads of posts across all forms of social media/forums calling for him to be removed.

A few weeks back, after the NLD, I saw several people shouting up at Fabio Paratici in the ground telling him to change the manager.

 

[Lemonade Money]

There have been loads of posts across all forms of social media/forums calling for him to be removed.

A few weeks back, after the NLD, I saw several people shouting up at Fabio Paratici in the ground telling him to change the manager.

Sounds like coke head behaviour. Just who we want making important decisions for the club.

 

[Bishop]

That’s a good point. I get on the forwards a lot and sometimes maybe I am too hard on them, but it doesn’t help that they know they have to score 3-4 goals a match more often than not to be assured that we will win the game. Arsenal and victims know 1 or 2 goals most games wins them the match.

I think we've had this discussion before, it is kind of the nature of his football that we need to kind of blow away the opposition to win and we did in the first half, but it's probably the case that we do have to score the 3 or so to actually win the match. a third goal would have demoralised Brighton to the point that they wouldn't have felt they could recover.

It's true though IMO, make subs and ok it looks proactive but it's hard for 2 or 3 players to stem a tide that's set in.

As fans we look for an obvious failing so have now latched onto subs (it was set plays).

But let's be real here, I've supposed Spurs for 35 years (of knowing what I'm seeing) and I've seen this nearly without fail every year of that time, it's not an excuse but for some reason we have this in us, I have my theory to it and that's why I back someone like Ange who wants to take the long approach to changing a culture.

The idea of subs is to try and change the shape of the game. After the first goal for instance we have wingers like Werner and Johnson (in particular) on the pitch neither of whom neither are possessional players nor are they particularly good defensively or covering wise. Swapping Kulu out to the right hand side and bringing say Bissouma in may and I admit it's only supposition but it may well have helped stem the tide or at least slowed the momentum shift.


What I think we saw from Ange was instead an absolute belief in his squad and system. If we were good enough to get the two goal lead then we should be good enough to wrestle control back. I think he felt that at 1-2 and even 2-2 we would eventually regain control. Unfortunately it never happened and we saw the end result.

 

[Gazza]

I think our losses under Ange look like simple tweaks that are obvious could hand results rather than being stubborn and playing only one way. It’s this one way management that gets you sacked sooner rather than later. I expect managers to change things according to the way the game is going and I think this is Auzzies biggest downfall.

I get that he believes in his system but when does that become delusional and arrogant in thinking? I’m not saying to sack him or don’t get being him etc but this is a forum and it’s up for debate and his current management.

It’s a big job and perhaps he needs to adapt quicker rather than just saying it’s one way, because this one way of playing is getting found out quite quickly.

The best and most successful managers are not one dimensional so let’s see him not be so naive and stubborn.

I’ve seen some changes already but currently I think he needs to have more urgency in making changes, not only substitutions but also in game management