Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Gazza]

I think we've had this discussion before, it is kind of the nature of his football that we need to kind of blow away the opposition to win and we did in the first half, but it's probably the case that we do have to score the 3 or so to actually win the match. a third goal would have demoralised Brighton to the point that they wouldn't have felt they could recover.


The idea of subs is to try and change the shape of the game. After the first goal for instance we have wingers like Werner and Johnson (in particular) on the pitch neither of whom neither are possessional players nor are they particularly good defensively or covering wise. Swapping Kulu out to the right hand side and bringing say Bissouma in may and I admit it's only supposition but it may well have helped stem the tide or at least slowed the momentum shift.


What I think we saw from Ange was instead an absolute belief in his squad and system. If we were good enough to get the two goal lead then we should be good enough to wrestle control back. I think he felt that at 1-2 and even 2-2 we would eventually regain control. Unfortunately it never happened and we saw the end result.

Surely not even he is so naive to assume we would snap out of it and regain control … we have consistently leaked goals and can’t hold a lead. It’s delusional not to think that to make a change or two in personnel tactics etc couldn’t make a difference. A proper manager does that.

 

[Baleforce]

we need to start cheating

 

[90291Spur]

we need to start cheating

Maybe our keeper needs to go down with what looks like a leg injury - the game stops, the one-way traffic to out goal stops, the physio comes on, other players get a chance to chat with Uncle Ange, the physio goes off and we re-group. PLUS, the keeper doesn't have to wait 30 seconds to come back on. I guess that Ange will feel that's not doing things the right way, but I don't give a toss.

 

[Robbo]

Maybe our keeper needs to go down with what looks like a leg injury - the game stops, the one-way traffic to out goal stops, the physio comes on, other players get a chance to chat with Uncle Ange, the physio goes off and we re-group. PLUS, the keeper doesn't have to wait 30 seconds to come back on. I guess that Ange will feel that's not doing things the right way, but I don't give a toss.

As long as it's a widely accepted practice, we should do it too. I don't like it, but it's not technically illegal and gives those teams who do it an advantage.

And who knows, maybe when we start implementing it, football's authorities might actually take action against it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

As long as it's a widely accepted practice, we should do it too. I don't like it, but it's not technically illegal and gives those teams who do it an advantage.

And who knows, maybe when we start implementing it, football's authorities might actually take action against it.

It’s a missed trick
That break in play is what is needed to reset
I heard someone call it a fake a break

 

[Baleforce]

It’s a missed trick
That break in play is what is needed to reset
I heard someone call it a fake a break

It’s a time out

Most sports have them

 

[DeanoAustin]

we need to start cheating

I’m not sure you can win without it at this level but I do love that Ange doesn’t do it. If there is a footballing purist managing in the league, Ange is it and I admire him for it.

Maybe it’s naive but in 4 or 5 weeks at my son’s games (he’s 12), I’ve seen lads roll around to waste time, roll around to get another sent off, constant berating of the ref to “make sure he gives us the 50:50s”, players and coaches calling on a lad to “clip him and take a yellow” and two vicious challenges that could have resulted in serious injury.

What the pros do counts and influences kids and I honestly find it very worrying to see kids carrying on like that.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1843278292339875898

This was part of the video used by the MOTD2 analysis yesterday
Look how the press changed ..

 

[braineclipse]

I think our losses under Ange look like simple tweaks that are obvious could hand results rather than being stubborn and playing only one way. It’s this one way management that gets you sacked sooner rather than later. I expect managers to change things according to the way the game is going and I think this is Auzzies biggest downfall.

I get that he believes in his system but when does that become delusional and arrogant in thinking? I’m not saying to sack him or don’t get being him etc but this is a forum and it’s up for debate and his current management.

It’s a big job and perhaps he needs to adapt quicker rather than just saying it’s one way, because this one way of playing is getting found out quite quickly.

The best and most successful managers are not one dimensional so let’s see him not be so naive and stubborn.

I’ve seen some changes already but currently I think he needs to have more urgency in making changes, not only substitutions but also in game management

I thought we did adjust quite well in the last 10-15 minutes of the first half. Weren't able to press with the same level of intensity, stepped off a bit collectively. Adjusted.

We failed to do that in the second half. They got the first goal and we seemed to be a bit of a mixed bag and different players were trying to do different things. Didn't press high as a unit, didn't step it off a bit as a unit.

I get the point about in game management, but also think it's still about learning the system for the players. Learning when and how to adapt. And probably also that we're a fairly young team.

It's definitely something to look out for. How we react and adjust when the momentum changes in games.

Edit: Perhaps also about players learning new roles, Kulusevski and Bentancur in particular.

 

[braineclipse]

Surely not even he is so naive to assume we would snap out of it and regain control … we have consistently leaked goals and can’t hold a lead. It’s delusional not to think that to make a change or two in personnel tactics etc couldn’t make a difference. A proper manager does that.

People will think different things about Ange, that I get. But I just don't get seeing him as naive. I find it just about impossible to believe that he's come this far by being naive.

He seemed really disappointed post match. I think it's quite likely that he expected the players that started the game to be able to respond better to the adversity at the start of the second half than they did. Not sure if "snap out of it" would have been what he expected, but to find the willingness and ability to fight for everything and to regain their composure and belief in what they're supposed to do I think perhaps he did expect.

If so he was obviously wrong about that, for quite a few of the players at the very least.

I don't think he's naive. I think he's well aware of the risks involved with how we play. I think he's well aware of how games chang momentum with goals and other stuff going on. An assumption on my part is that how the players respond in these moments is something that's being worked on in training and conversations with the players.

I think an expectation on the players to respond better than they did is fair. He was wrong in this instance, they responded exactly as they actually did. Work to be done on that. But I also think it's good for him to expect more.

I hope the players will learn from this. I think that's where the learning is needed, not with Ange.

 

[yiddo37]

Didn't see the 2nd half as had to go out. 1st half was great bar the Welbeck opportunity. As poor as it seems we played 2nd half it basically came down to brick defending that cost us, all 3 bloody goals were shocking from our viewpoint.

 

[Legohamster]

Course the long term visions matters, the bloke went into the first season selling the best striker in the world and he IMO kept the side together pretty well first season considering the nuances which that impact and others through the season had. The fact we are now what, 7 games into a period where he has a recognisable striker, for example.

The changes and the vision have impacted the journey and that it is still a process to continue, we could spend all day unpicking it but for me its pretty clear that the overhaul and progress is still very much ongoing.

Yes we can say he is wrong (I don't believe he is) and we can start again, as I say, but for me thats far more damaging than continuing at this stage, he is far from the places of previous managers when they were sacked IMO.

As someone said magnificently on twitter yesterday, people seemingly parking their doubts when we win and then go hell for leather when we lose, I mean I can expect some excuses such as "poor oppo" but we are off the back of a 5 wins on the bounce, its far from Nunoball

The set up of the club means the long term vision doesn't change from manager to manager, I'm very supportive of going back to buying young players and improving them, it's what we've done well over the years, we've struggled in the past 5 years or so as we didn't have an identity, that's changing and credit to Levy for this.


The 5 on the bounce includes a lucky win against Coventry and 2 patchy wins against Europa league teams - and an excellent win at OT, so it's not overly impressive when broken down.

I just don't see him learning

I don't think he goes this season, so I'll guess we will see in May, hopefully I am very wrong

 

[Grays_1890]

The set up of the club means the long term vision doesn't change from manager to manager, I'm very supportive of going back to buying young players and improving them, it's what we've done well over the years, we've struggled in the past 5 years or so as we didn't have an identity, that's changing and credit to Levy for this.


The 5 on the bounce includes a lucky win against Coventry and 2 patchy wins against Europa league teams - and an excellent win at OT, so it's not overly impressive when broken down.

I just don't see him learning

I don't think he goes this season, so I'll guess we will see in May, hopefully I am very wrong

ALot of credit also goes to Ange for having the vision and the confidence to cut through the mess, our squad overhaul and changes comes in massive part due to his ability to know what he wants for better or worse.

Yes that system remains but for it to continue you need to go and identify a manager of the same ilk, I am a Levy backist (I know its not a word) but do I trust that should Ange go that we don't get the wrong fit for that system? I am not so sure

 

[billyiddo]

ALot of credit also goes to Ange for having the vision and the confidence to cut through the mess, our squad overhaul and changes comes in massive part due to his ability to know what he wants for better or worse.

Yes that system remains but for it to continue you need to go and identify a manager of the same ilk, I am a Levy backist (I know its not a word) but do I trust that should Ange go that we don't get the wrong fit for that system? I am not so sure

Now we have the makings of a proper football management team above the coach and below the chairman we shouldn't really be worried about the next coach being suitable - there will be people employed to ensure that they are. Proof will be in the pudding though I guess.

 

[Grays_1890]

Now we have the makings of a proper football management team above the coach and below the chairman we shouldn't really be worried about the next coach being suitable - there will be people employed to ensure that they are. Proof will be in the pudding though I guess.

You hope so, lets see

 

[braineclipse]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1843278292339875898

This was part of the video used by the MOTD2 analysis yesterday
Look how the press changed ..

So weak from our midfield. No aggression, no intensity. Jogging. No cohesion with Solanke, essentially means we're playing with 10 men, and poorly at that. Brighton aren't even doing anything impressive at all to bypass our midfield. Just simple touches and passes with loads of time to pick out a pass.

This isn't an issue with the high press, high line, inverted full backs, counter attacks or whatever. This isn't physical exhaustion either, it's 2 and 12 minutes into the second half. Whatever Ange said at half time this couldn't possibly be what he wanted from them.

This also isn't on our defenders though obviously they could have done better. But leave this kind of space to attack and get into good wide positions and bad stuff will happen.

The players need to make sure this doesn't happen again. With help from Ange and the players if need be, but this should be their responsibility as a group to figure out.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

So weak from our midfield. No aggression, no intensity. Jogging. No cohesion with Solanke, essentially means we're playing with 10 men, and poorly at that. Brighton aren't even doing anything impressive at all to bypass our midfield. Just simple touches and passes with loads of time to pick out a pass.

This isn't an issue with the high press, high line, inverted full backs, counter attacks or whatever. This isn't physical exhaustion either, it's 2 and 12 minutes into the second half. Whatever Ange said at half time this couldn't possibly be what he wanted from them.

This also isn't on our defenders though obviously they could have done better. But leave this kind of space to attack and get into good wide positions and bad stuff will happen.

The players need to make sure this doesn't happen again. With help from Ange and the players if need be, but this should be their responsibility as a group to figure out.

Thats why the video is damming
And I’d wager it’s why Ange didn’t respond as some fans think he should
He can see what is going on and can see that drop off pitch side
It wasn’t this obvious to me on TV that’s for sure

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The set up of the club means the long term vision doesn't change from manager to manager, I'm very supportive of going back to buying young players and improving them, it's what we've done well over the years, we've struggled in the past 5 years or so as we didn't have an identity, that's changing and credit to Levy for this.


The 5 on the bounce includes a lucky win against Coventry and 2 patchy wins against Europa league teams - and an excellent win at OT, so it's not overly impressive when broken down.

I just don't see him learning

I don't think he goes this season, so I'll guess we will see in May, hopefully I am very wrong

Well worth looking at pochs record in Europe against these weaker sides for reflection …

 

[glorygloryeze]

Thats why the video is damming
And I’d wager it’s why Ange didn’t respond as some fans think he should
He can see what is going on and can see that drop off pitch side
It wasn’t this obvious to me on TV that’s for sure

I don't see why it cannot be thought that the drop-off was at least partly to do with fatigue as well as mentally switching-off.
A substitution could easily have been a kick up the back-side needed (it often is at other clubs...)

 

[Bishop]

Thats why the video is damming
And I’d wager it’s why Ange didn’t respond as some fans think he should
He can see what is going on and can see that drop off pitch side
It wasn’t this obvious to me on TV that’s for sure

I personally think he made the wrong decision in not reacting but I do think like yourself that he thought the team would wrestle the game back considering how well they played in the first half.

Seeing the press had dropped it would have possibly and I admit we don't know how it would have turned out but changing the personnel might well have galvanised the side. Sitting and waiting certainly didn't.

Again though if he uses that as a lesson and going forward he adjusts to the situation then it's a lesson well learned.