Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Mikey10]

It’s not a sample size
It’s scarily reactionary
You can’t continue one seasons results into the other unless a manager has had time… like ETH for example, but he has a trophy

You did, credit where it’s due, make your calls on Ange ball last year when we were on the great run.

But I just can’t fathom how people can just look at what they are seeing on the pitch and not see that the issues are not the system as much as it’s individuals failing at basics… again

It’s now very much his players repeatedly making the same errors. It’s the manager’s job to fix that. Whether he can will play a huge part in determining how long he’ll be with us.

For me, unless we’re in the bottom half of the table for an extended period, that has to be all of this year. By then we’ll know for sure one way or the other whether he can take us further forward.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It’s now very much his players repeatedly making the same errors. It’s the manager’s job to fix that. Whether he can will play a huge part in determining how long he’ll be with us.

For me, unless we’re in the bottom half of the table for an extended period, that has to be all of this year. By then we’ll know for sure one way or the other whether he can take us further forward.

I agree
It’s his job to fix the issue either through coaching or changing personnel
It’s why I say 10 games is enough to see a trend

 

[Gazza]

Anytime I read this about how Aussie Ardilles needs to change or tweak this on this forum all I can hear is “It’s not what we are about mate” … that’s not coincidental … he is just not going to change his winning formula from lesser leagues and is getting found out by astute managers who know how to play football in more than one way/system.

I know @tommysvr is desperate for him to do well but honestly we are currently playing into the hands of the opposition. So easy to beat Spurs under Aussie

 

[Mikey10]

According to today’s View from the Lane podcast, we’ve won 3 out of our last 15 away games, conceded 30 goals in those, and have an average point gain in them of 0.9 per game.

That’s lower mid-table form, surely?

 

[Baleforce]

conceding 2 a game in the PL is relegation form

 

[metalgear]

Well slow and steady wins the race. I think Arsenal have the makings of a top team and they can remain consistent they are bound to win something soon.

When do you think we will win something with angeball? I'm starting to suspect that without serious changes we won't soon as angeball is too risky, throwing too much into attack and not getting the best out of individual players.

The key being they havent actually won anything since he stuck with a fixed team each season..l and they falter at the end

 

[braineclipse]

View attachment 17605
That's the percentage. We're the lowest and 14% behind the average. You can clearly see a lot of clubs living dangerously on this chart and I wouldn't advocate for that in a million years. But if this metric is consistently the lowest in the league, you're very unlikely to ever attract top players.

Good business sense, good way to run an organisation. Not a good way to break through to the top table.

Back of the napkin maths here.

According to Google our revenue that season was £550m. Say our wages to turnover ratio changed to 67%, spending 10% more of our revenue on wages. That would be £55m more of our revenue on wages. In recent seasons that would at least come close to halving our net spend transfer budget. Meaning that we either wouldn't be able to sign "top" players anyway, or if we did be left with no money to fix other issues within the squad. Even 5% more would take close to a Odobert sized chunk out of our transfer budget every season.

In short I doubt that would be worth it. I doubt that would be a realistic way to break through to the top of the table.

With this model we've been able to attract essentially all of our starting 11. A lot of very good players there. We need more players at that kind of level.

At one point our squad may be at the point where going for one top player would be better, but we've not reached that point yet at least. Had we gone for that strategy this summer, last summer or the summer before I would not be optimistic about it working out.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Well slow and steady wins the race. I think Arsenal have the makings of a top team and they can remain consistent they are bound to win something soon.

When do you think we will win something with angeball? I'm starting to suspect that without serious changes we won't soon as angeball is too risky, throwing too much into attack and not getting the best out of individual players.

Everyone thought the same about us under Poch

 

[braineclipse]

Anytime I read this about how Aussie Ardilles needs to change or tweak this on this forum all I can hear is “It’s not what we are about mate” … that’s not coincidental … he is just not going to change his winning formula from lesser leagues and is getting found out by astute managers who know how to play football in more than one way/system.

I know @tommysvr is desperate for him to do well but honestly we are currently playing into the hands of the opposition. So easy to beat Spurs under Aussie

I think this highlights one of the big differences in how people view Ange. Personally I disagree for three reasons:

1. Drawing to Leicester and losing to Saudi Sportswashing Machine is disappointing for sure, but hardly the end of the world for a top 4 challenge. It's about how often it happens of course. Including our second half of last season makes for an overall underwhelming pattern over some time. But I also think our performances from the start of this season have been significantly better than those of second half last season.

Keep playing like this and I see us getting good results with a good frequency from this style. Good enough to challenge for top 4 for sure. But title contention it's not. We're not there yet, that's fine. I don't think he was found out against Leicester or Saudi Sportswashing Machine. They hung on and got a break. They couldn't live with us, but got away with it. It happens sometimes.

2. The chances of us getting to where we really want to be (top of the table) are limited no matter who is in charge. I don't think Ange is less likely to get us there than a more "pragmatic" manager. He may be so in the short term, but we know, we've experienced, how deeply sour pragmatic and boring football gets when the results aren't there. The Ange way actually has a chance to fail somewhat and keep going rather than just leading to a new cycle of new management and rebuild. We have a better chance of getting through a slump without restarting.

3. Attracting players. Essentially I don't think Bergvall choose us over Barcelona with Mourinho in charge. I'm not sure Moore signs that contract with Mourinho or Conte in charge. I think having an attacking and entertaining style helps us attract the best talents around. Players want that, young players want that. The less "pragmatic" choice also better lends itself to developing young players. There's an acceptance of risk and variance rather than going safety first, experienced players. And developing players to the point where they become better than players we could sign is imo our best realistic path to becoming a team challenging for titles.

Even if Ange ultimately fails the players we're signing now can be successful here for many years. Those signings make more sense under him than under a more pragmatic manager.

 

[tommysvr]

I know @tommysvr is desperate for him to do well but honestly we are currently playing into the hands of the opposition. So easy to beat Spurs under Aussie

Let me clear one thing up because it's something I've been accused of many times. I couldn't give a brick if it was Ange, Ange's uncle or any other random manager. I don't support Ange because I picked him out early, I picked him out early because I felt he was what we needed.

THFC was a shambles of a Premier League football club in April/May/June 2023. Not even 18 months ago. An absolute fudging shambles. We went to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and got absolutely annilhated. One of the most embarrassing matches I've ever watched as a Spurs fan. Genuine emotional pain of seeing the team I love in the shape that it was in.

At that point it was very clear: the next manager had a huge fudging job on their hands. The remit was to get us playing exciting football again. To set us up for success in the future; to get back to where we were at Poch's peak. Before any of that was possible, the manager had to sort out the disaster of a football club they took over. To repair a completely broken relationship between the club and its fans.

It was obvious to me, having watched Ange's style -- take no brick, if you don't like it my way there's plenty of other football clubs out there -- that he was the perfect fit for what the club needed. Buy in, strap in and enjoy the ride. It'll be extremely bumpy at first but -- like pretty much everything in life -- if you stick with it you'll see results.

Under Conte/Stelling/Mason the stadium was dead. People were barely even angry anymore. It was completely apathetic. No one gave a brick. It was a complete chore to watch Tottenham Hotspur.

Our first home game vs Manchester United last season and the stadium was rocking. Within weeks Ange had completely reversed the entire mood around the club. From doom and gloom to "wait, can we win the league?" by October. He had no right to do it that quickly. It didn't happen by luck; there was nothing magical that came over us. Everyone saw how he handled himself publicly. That he spoke about the club as we'd like it to be spoken about. He showed us that 'he gets it.'

That he did it so quickly is I believe what is leading the current negativity. It seems to me that everyone has lost track of where this club was when he took over. Everything is about RIGHT NOW. Because he seemed to flick a switch to lift the mood so quickly, well surely he can do the same tactically as well.

I mean he did, right? The first 10 games we absolutely blew everyone away? Not quite. If you watch those first 10 games back, only Burnley (5-2) was comfortable. Man Utd and Bournemouth feel comfortable now (both 2-0) but they weren't without scares. Against Sheffield United we needed 2 injury time goals to beat a team that went down as one of the worst in Premier League history. We needed an injury time own goal to beat 9-man Liverpool. etc etc.

There's no point repeating the entire story of the season because everyone knows it. But the facts are clear: he got 5th with constant injuries to key players, two mid-season tournaments and players he doesn't particularly want/that don't suit his system. Oh and yeah we sold our best player ever the night before the season started.

He's been backed pretty well this summer. The squad looks far more like his. We were missing 3 key players last weekend yet still fielded a very strong team. We dominate just about every single team we play in just about every stat possible. Yes, the two that matter -- for and against -- too often don't reflect that, and there are repetitive issues. But the signs are there. The dominance will turn into results. It's how every other job he's had has gone. It will happen again, if we give it time. That time is at the very least this full season, but in my opinion he needs a third season before we can really judge it.

There are two very recent examples of clubs in a similar state to Spurs were:

Liverpool:
2014/15 - 8th
2015/16 - 4th (Klopp takes over in October)
2016/17 - 4th
2017/18 - 4th
2018/19 - 2nd
2019/20 - 1st

First trophy: Champions League in 2018/19.

Arsenal:
2018/19: 5th
2019/20: 8th (Arteta takes over in December)
2020/21: 8th
2021/22: 5th
2022/23: 2nd
2023/24: 2nd

First (and only trophy to date): FA Cup 2019/20

The blueprint is clear. Managers need time. How much of a backbone do Spurs fans have? How many people are willing to stick it out for a bit, riding out the rough parts? Or do you want to sack the manager and start again? Because that's clearly worked every other time.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Let me clear one thing up because it's something I've been accused of many times. I couldn't give a brick if it was Ange, Ange's uncle or any other random manager. I don't support Ange because I picked him out early, I picked him out early because I felt he was what we needed.

THFC was a shambles of a Premier League football club in April/May/June 2023. Not even 18 months ago. An absolute fudging shambles. We went to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and got absolutely annilhated. One of the most embarrassing matches I've ever watched as a Spurs fan. Genuine emotional pain of seeing the team I love in the shape that it was in.

At that point it was very clear: the next manager had a huge fudging job on their hands. The remit was to get us playing exciting football again. To set us up for success in the future; to get back to where we were at Poch's peak. Before any of that was possible, the manager had to sort out the disaster of a football club they took over. To repair a completely broken relationship between the club and its fans.

It was obvious to me, having watched Ange's style -- take no brick, if you don't like it my way there's plenty of other football clubs out there -- that he was the perfect fit for what the club needed. Buy in, strap in and enjoy the ride. It'll be extremely bumpy at first but -- like pretty much everything in life -- if you stick with it you'll see results.

Under Conte/Stelling/Mason the stadium was dead. People were barely even angry anymore. It was completely apathetic. No one gave a brick. It was a complete chore to watch Tottenham Hotspur.

Our first home game vs Manchester United last season and the stadium was rocking. Within weeks Ange had completely reversed the entire mood around the club. From doom and gloom to "wait, can we win the league?" by October. He had no right to do it that quickly. It didn't happen by luck; there was nothing magical that came over us. Everyone saw how he handled himself publicly. That he spoke about the club as we'd like it to be spoken about. He showed us that 'he gets it.'

That he did it so quickly is I believe what is leading the current negativity. It seems to me that everyone has lost track of where this club was when he took over. Everything is about RIGHT NOW. Because he seemed to flick a switch to lift the mood so quickly, well surely he can do the same tactically as well.

I mean he did, right? The first 10 games we absolutely blew everyone away? Not quite. If you watch those first 10 games back, only Burnley (5-2) was comfortable. Man Utd and Bournemouth feel comfortable now (both 2-0) but they weren't without scares. Against Sheffield United we needed 2 injury time goals to beat a team that went down as one of the worst in Premier League history. We needed an injury time own goal to beat 9-man Liverpool. etc etc.

There's no point repeating the entire story of the season because everyone knows it. But the facts are clear: he got 5th with constant injuries to key players, two mid-season tournaments and players he doesn't particularly want/that don't suit his system. Oh and yeah we sold our best player ever the night before the season started.

He's been backed pretty well this summer. The squad looks far more like his. We were missing 3 key players last weekend yet still fielded a very strong team. We dominate just about every single team we play in just about every stat possible. Yes, the two that matter -- for and against -- too often don't reflect that, and there are repetitive issues. But the signs are there. The dominance will turn into results. It's how every other job he's had has gone. It will happen again, if we give it time. That time is at the very least this full season, but in my opinion he needs a third season before we can really judge it.

There are two very recent examples of clubs in a similar state to Spurs were:

Liverpool:
2014/15 - 8th
2015/16 - 4th (Klopp takes over in October)
2016/17 - 4th
2017/18 - 4th
2018/19 - 2nd
2019/20 - 1st

First trophy: Champions League in 2018/19.

Arsenal:
2018/19: 5th
2019/20: 8th (Arteta takes over in December)
2020/21: 8th
2021/22: 5th
2022/23: 2nd
2023/24: 2nd

First (and only trophy to date): FA Cup 2019/20

The blueprint is clear. Managers need time. How much of a backbone do Spurs fans have? How many people are willing to stick it out for a bit, riding out the rough parts? Or do you want to sack the manager and start again? Because that's clearly worked every other time.

That's a really well articulated and well argued post. Fair play. And I agree with much of it. The change Ange has brought to our club, in terms of style of play and connection with the fans is incredible. He certainly deserves this season and I'd argue, as long as he doesn't finish below 8th or 10th, deserves next season too.

Here's the but. We concede too many goals. We're scoring 2 a game on average. City score 2.5. We aren't, and never will be, City. We conceded almost a goal a game more than Woolwich last season. Even Klopp as his craziest without VVD and Alisson conceded about 15%-20% less goals than us. Arteta at his worst (finishing 8th for two seasons) conceded far fewer goals than us. And a lot of the same issues that we saw last season are evident this season. It's the same regardless of who plays at the back. I'm seeing a lot of analysis and comment focusing on "taking our chances" but our biggest issue is not up front.

Until we stop conceding at this rate, Ange will do very, very well even to get top 4. However, he definitely should have the chance to try. And if we're the team who plays like we do and finishes 4th-7th, is that really a disaster?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Let me clear one thing up because it's something I've been accused of many times. I couldn't give a brick if it was Ange, Ange's uncle or any other random manager. I don't support Ange because I picked him out early, I picked him out early because I felt he was what we needed.

THFC was a shambles of a Premier League football club in April/May/June 2023. Not even 18 months ago. An absolute fudging shambles. We went to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and got absolutely annilhated. One of the most embarrassing matches I've ever watched as a Spurs fan. Genuine emotional pain of seeing the team I love in the shape that it was in.

At that point it was very clear: the next manager had a huge fudging job on their hands. The remit was to get us playing exciting football again. To set us up for success in the future; to get back to where we were at Poch's peak. Before any of that was possible, the manager had to sort out the disaster of a football club they took over. To repair a completely broken relationship between the club and its fans.

It was obvious to me, having watched Ange's style -- take no brick, if you don't like it my way there's plenty of other football clubs out there -- that he was the perfect fit for what the club needed. Buy in, strap in and enjoy the ride. It'll be extremely bumpy at first but -- like pretty much everything in life -- if you stick with it you'll see results.

Under Conte/Stelling/Mason the stadium was dead. People were barely even angry anymore. It was completely apathetic. No one gave a brick. It was a complete chore to watch Tottenham Hotspur.

Our first home game vs Manchester United last season and the stadium was rocking. Within weeks Ange had completely reversed the entire mood around the club. From doom and gloom to "wait, can we win the league?" by October. He had no right to do it that quickly. It didn't happen by luck; there was nothing magical that came over us. Everyone saw how he handled himself publicly. That he spoke about the club as we'd like it to be spoken about. He showed us that 'he gets it.'

That he did it so quickly is I believe what is leading the current negativity. It seems to me that everyone has lost track of where this club was when he took over. Everything is about RIGHT NOW. Because he seemed to flick a switch to lift the mood so quickly, well surely he can do the same tactically as well.

I mean he did, right? The first 10 games we absolutely blew everyone away? Not quite. If you watch those first 10 games back, only Burnley (5-2) was comfortable. Man Utd and Bournemouth feel comfortable now (both 2-0) but they weren't without scares. Against Sheffield United we needed 2 injury time goals to beat a team that went down as one of the worst in Premier League history. We needed an injury time own goal to beat 9-man Liverpool. etc etc.

There's no point repeating the entire story of the season because everyone knows it. But the facts are clear: he got 5th with constant injuries to key players, two mid-season tournaments and players he doesn't particularly want/that don't suit his system. Oh and yeah we sold our best player ever the night before the season started.

He's been backed pretty well this summer. The squad looks far more like his. We were missing 3 key players last weekend yet still fielded a very strong team. We dominate just about every single team we play in just about every stat possible. Yes, the two that matter -- for and against -- too often don't reflect that, and there are repetitive issues. But the signs are there. The dominance will turn into results. It's how every other job he's had has gone. It will happen again, if we give it time. That time is at the very least this full season, but in my opinion he needs a third season before we can really judge it.

There are two very recent examples of clubs in a similar state to Spurs were:

Liverpool:
2014/15 - 8th
2015/16 - 4th (Klopp takes over in October)
2016/17 - 4th
2017/18 - 4th
2018/19 - 2nd
2019/20 - 1st

First trophy: Champions League in 2018/19.

Arsenal:
2018/19: 5th
2019/20: 8th (Arteta takes over in December)
2020/21: 8th
2021/22: 5th
2022/23: 2nd
2023/24: 2nd

First (and only trophy to date): FA Cup 2019/20

The blueprint is clear. Managers need time. How much of a backbone do Spurs fans have? How many people are willing to stick it out for a bit, riding out the rough parts? Or do you want to sack the manager and start again? Because that's clearly worked every other time.

I think the last paragraph is key. We’ve had this discussion before but it is also vital that the owners and chairman show patience. It’s not the fans who sack the manager ultimately.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I think the last paragraph is key. We’ve had this discussion before but it is also vital that the owners and chairman show patience. It’s not the fans who sack the manager ultimately.

Anyone even thinking Ange should be under pressure is an imbecile. It'd be so fudging stupid to contemplate sacking him right now and starting again. Disagree with his approach all you like, I do, but there is a possibility it works and he has more than enough credit in the bank.

Fans need to ask themselves what is success for Tottenham Hotspur and be really honest about it. If they think it's challenging for the title as things currently stand, it's not a football manager they need. It's a bloody magician.

 

[glasgowspur]

Anyone even thinking Ange should be under pressure is an imbecile. It'd be so fudging stupid to contemplate sacking him right now and starting again. Disagree with his approach all you like, I do, but there is a possibility it works and he has more than enough credit in the bank.

Fans need to ask themselves what is success for Tottenham Hotspur and be really honest about it. If they think it's challenging for the title as things currently stand, it's not a football manager they need. It's a bloody magician.

No manager is coming into Tottenham and having us seriously challenging for the title within 3 seasons.
It's not happening, our base is not strong enough as a club.

 

[parklane1]

I think this highlights one of the big differences in how people view Ange. Personally I disagree for three reasons:

1. Drawing to Leicester and losing to Saudi Sportswashing Machine is disappointing for sure, but hardly the end of the world for a top 4 challenge. It's about how often it happens of course. Including our second half of last season makes for an overall underwhelming pattern over some time. But I also think our performances from the start of this season have been significantly better than those of second half last season.

Keep playing like this and I see us getting good results with a good frequency from this style. Good enough to challenge for top 4 for sure. But title contention it's not. We're not there yet, that's fine. I don't think he was found out against Leicester or Saudi Sportswashing Machine. They hung on and got a break. They couldn't live with us, but got away with it. It happens sometimes.

2. The chances of us getting to where we really want to be (top of the table) are limited no matter who is in charge. I don't think Ange is less likely to get us there than a more "pragmatic" manager. He may be so in the short term, but we know, we've experienced, how deeply sour pragmatic and boring football gets when the results aren't there. The Ange way actually has a chance to fail somewhat and keep going rather than just leading to a new cycle of new management and rebuild. We have a better chance of getting through a slump without restarting.

3. Attracting players. Essentially I don't think Bergvall choose us over Barcelona with Mourinho in charge. I'm not sure Moore signs that contract with Mourinho or Conte in charge. I think having an attacking and entertaining style helps us attract the best talents around. Players want that, young players want that. The less "pragmatic" choice also better lends itself to developing young players. There's an acceptance of risk and variance rather than going safety first, experienced players. And developing players to the point where they become better than players we could sign is imo our best realistic path to becoming a team challenging for titles.

Even if Ange ultimately fails the players we're signing now can be successful here for many years. Those signings make more sense under him than under a more pragmatic manager.

Let me clear one thing up because it's something I've been accused of many times. I couldn't give a brick if it was Ange, Ange's uncle or any other random manager. I don't support Ange because I picked him out early, I picked him out early because I felt he was what we needed.

THFC was a shambles of a Premier League football club in April/May/June 2023. Not even 18 months ago. An absolute fudging shambles. We went to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and got absolutely annilhated. One of the most embarrassing matches I've ever watched as a Spurs fan. Genuine emotional pain of seeing the team I love in the shape that it was in.

At that point it was very clear: the next manager had a huge fudging job on their hands. The remit was to get us playing exciting football again. To set us up for success in the future; to get back to where we were at Poch's peak. Before any of that was possible, the manager had to sort out the disaster of a football club they took over. To repair a completely broken relationship between the club and its fans.

It was obvious to me, having watched Ange's style -- take no brick, if you don't like it my way there's plenty of other football clubs out there -- that he was the perfect fit for what the club needed. Buy in, strap in and enjoy the ride. It'll be extremely bumpy at first but -- like pretty much everything in life -- if you stick with it you'll see results.

Under Conte/Stelling/Mason the stadium was dead. People were barely even angry anymore. It was completely apathetic. No one gave a brick. It was a complete chore to watch Tottenham Hotspur.

Our first home game vs Manchester United last season and the stadium was rocking. Within weeks Ange had completely reversed the entire mood around the club. From doom and gloom to "wait, can we win the league?" by October. He had no right to do it that quickly. It didn't happen by luck; there was nothing magical that came over us. Everyone saw how he handled himself publicly. That he spoke about the club as we'd like it to be spoken about. He showed us that 'he gets it.'

That he did it so quickly is I believe what is leading the current negativity. It seems to me that everyone has lost track of where this club was when he took over. Everything is about RIGHT NOW. Because he seemed to flick a switch to lift the mood so quickly, well surely he can do the same tactically as well.

I mean he did, right? The first 10 games we absolutely blew everyone away? Not quite. If you watch those first 10 games back, only Burnley (5-2) was comfortable. Man Utd and Bournemouth feel comfortable now (both 2-0) but they weren't without scares. Against Sheffield United we needed 2 injury time goals to beat a team that went down as one of the worst in Premier League history. We needed an injury time own goal to beat 9-man Liverpool. etc etc.

There's no point repeating the entire story of the season because everyone knows it. But the facts are clear: he got 5th with constant injuries to key players, two mid-season tournaments and players he doesn't particularly want/that don't suit his system. Oh and yeah we sold our best player ever the night before the season started.

He's been backed pretty well this summer. The squad looks far more like his. We were missing 3 key players last weekend yet still fielded a very strong team. We dominate just about every single team we play in just about every stat possible. Yes, the two that matter -- for and against -- too often don't reflect that, and there are repetitive issues. But the signs are there. The dominance will turn into results. It's how every other job he's had has gone. It will happen again, if we give it time. That time is at the very least this full season, but in my opinion he needs a third season before we can really judge it.

There are two very recent examples of clubs in a similar state to Spurs were:

Liverpool:
2014/15 - 8th
2015/16 - 4th (Klopp takes over in October)
2016/17 - 4th
2017/18 - 4th
2018/19 - 2nd
2019/20 - 1st

First trophy: Champions League in 2018/19.

Arsenal:
2018/19: 5th
2019/20: 8th (Arteta takes over in December)
2020/21: 8th
2021/22: 5th
2022/23: 2nd
2023/24: 2nd

First (and only trophy to date): FA Cup 2019/20

The blueprint is clear. Managers need time. How much of a backbone do Spurs fans have? How many people are willing to stick it out for a bit, riding out the rough parts? Or do you want to sack the manager and start again? Because that's clearly worked every other time.

Both very good posts and i agree.

 

[Muttley]

Let me clear one thing up because it's something I've been accused of many times. I couldn't give a brick if it was Ange, Ange's uncle or any other random manager. I don't support Ange because I picked him out early, I picked him out early because I felt he was what we needed.

THFC was a shambles of a Premier League football club in April/May/June 2023. Not even 18 months ago. An absolute fudging shambles. We went to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and got absolutely annilhated. One of the most embarrassing matches I've ever watched as a Spurs fan. Genuine emotional pain of seeing the team I love in the shape that it was in.

At that point it was very clear: the next manager had a huge fudging job on their hands. The remit was to get us playing exciting football again. To set us up for success in the future; to get back to where we were at Poch's peak. Before any of that was possible, the manager had to sort out the disaster of a football club they took over. To repair a completely broken relationship between the club and its fans.

It was obvious to me, having watched Ange's style -- take no brick, if you don't like it my way there's plenty of other football clubs out there -- that he was the perfect fit for what the club needed. Buy in, strap in and enjoy the ride. It'll be extremely bumpy at first but -- like pretty much everything in life -- if you stick with it you'll see results.

Under Conte/Stelling/Mason the stadium was dead. People were barely even angry anymore. It was completely apathetic. No one gave a brick. It was a complete chore to watch Tottenham Hotspur.

Our first home game vs Manchester United last season and the stadium was rocking. Within weeks Ange had completely reversed the entire mood around the club. From doom and gloom to "wait, can we win the league?" by October. He had no right to do it that quickly. It didn't happen by luck; there was nothing magical that came over us. Everyone saw how he handled himself publicly. That he spoke about the club as we'd like it to be spoken about. He showed us that 'he gets it.'

That he did it so quickly is I believe what is leading the current negativity. It seems to me that everyone has lost track of where this club was when he took over. Everything is about RIGHT NOW. Because he seemed to flick a switch to lift the mood so quickly, well surely he can do the same tactically as well.

I mean he did, right? The first 10 games we absolutely blew everyone away? Not quite. If you watch those first 10 games back, only Burnley (5-2) was comfortable. Man Utd and Bournemouth feel comfortable now (both 2-0) but they weren't without scares. Against Sheffield United we needed 2 injury time goals to beat a team that went down as one of the worst in Premier League history. We needed an injury time own goal to beat 9-man Liverpool. etc etc.

There's no point repeating the entire story of the season because everyone knows it. But the facts are clear: he got 5th with constant injuries to key players, two mid-season tournaments and players he doesn't particularly want/that don't suit his system. Oh and yeah we sold our best player ever the night before the season started.

He's been backed pretty well this summer. The squad looks far more like his. We were missing 3 key players last weekend yet still fielded a very strong team. We dominate just about every single team we play in just about every stat possible. Yes, the two that matter -- for and against -- too often don't reflect that, and there are repetitive issues. But the signs are there. The dominance will turn into results. It's how every other job he's had has gone. It will happen again, if we give it time. That time is at the very least this full season, but in my opinion he needs a third season before we can really judge it.

There are two very recent examples of clubs in a similar state to Spurs were:

Liverpool:
2014/15 - 8th
2015/16 - 4th (Klopp takes over in October)
2016/17 - 4th
2017/18 - 4th
2018/19 - 2nd
2019/20 - 1st

First trophy: Champions League in 2018/19.

Arsenal:
2018/19: 5th
2019/20: 8th (Arteta takes over in December)
2020/21: 8th
2021/22: 5th
2022/23: 2nd
2023/24: 2nd

First (and only trophy to date): FA Cup 2019/20

The blueprint is clear. Managers need time. How much of a backbone do Spurs fans have? How many people are willing to stick it out for a bit, riding out the rough parts? Or do you want to sack the manager and start again? Because that's clearly worked every other time.

Great post.

I'm wondering whether our new problem might eventually be having the tough choice to change the manager because he's plateau'd. Brendan Rodgers is a good manager but was replaced by Klopp. Pellegrini likewise, but Pep is clearly another level. Emery is another that has shown his talents since being replaced by Arteta. With guys like Eddie Howe and Ange, it does get you wondering whether they will be replaced without really doing much wrong. They have great opportunities with their clubs though and are the good guys in football.

 

[Aldo]

Let me clear one thing up because it's something I've been accused of many times. I couldn't give a brick if it was Ange, Ange's uncle or any other random manager. I don't support Ange because I picked him out early, I picked him out early because I felt he was what we needed.

THFC was a shambles of a Premier League football club in April/May/June 2023. Not even 18 months ago. An absolute fudging shambles. We went to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and got absolutely annilhated. One of the most embarrassing matches I've ever watched as a Spurs fan. Genuine emotional pain of seeing the team I love in the shape that it was in.

At that point it was very clear: the next manager had a huge fudging job on their hands. The remit was to get us playing exciting football again. To set us up for success in the future; to get back to where we were at Poch's peak. Before any of that was possible, the manager had to sort out the disaster of a football club they took over. To repair a completely broken relationship between the club and its fans.

It was obvious to me, having watched Ange's style -- take no brick, if you don't like it my way there's plenty of other football clubs out there -- that he was the perfect fit for what the club needed. Buy in, strap in and enjoy the ride. It'll be extremely bumpy at first but -- like pretty much everything in life -- if you stick with it you'll see results.

Under Conte/Stelling/Mason the stadium was dead. People were barely even angry anymore. It was completely apathetic. No one gave a brick. It was a complete chore to watch Tottenham Hotspur.

Our first home game vs Manchester United last season and the stadium was rocking. Within weeks Ange had completely reversed the entire mood around the club. From doom and gloom to "wait, can we win the league?" by October. He had no right to do it that quickly. It didn't happen by luck; there was nothing magical that came over us. Everyone saw how he handled himself publicly. That he spoke about the club as we'd like it to be spoken about. He showed us that 'he gets it.'

That he did it so quickly is I believe what is leading the current negativity. It seems to me that everyone has lost track of where this club was when he took over. Everything is about RIGHT NOW. Because he seemed to flick a switch to lift the mood so quickly, well surely he can do the same tactically as well.

I mean he did, right? The first 10 games we absolutely blew everyone away? Not quite. If you watch those first 10 games back, only Burnley (5-2) was comfortable. Man Utd and Bournemouth feel comfortable now (both 2-0) but they weren't without scares. Against Sheffield United we needed 2 injury time goals to beat a team that went down as one of the worst in Premier League history. We needed an injury time own goal to beat 9-man Liverpool. etc etc.

There's no point repeating the entire story of the season because everyone knows it. But the facts are clear: he got 5th with constant injuries to key players, two mid-season tournaments and players he doesn't particularly want/that don't suit his system. Oh and yeah we sold our best player ever the night before the season started.

He's been backed pretty well this summer. The squad looks far more like his. We were missing 3 key players last weekend yet still fielded a very strong team. We dominate just about every single team we play in just about every stat possible. Yes, the two that matter -- for and against -- too often don't reflect that, and there are repetitive issues. But the signs are there. The dominance will turn into results. It's how every other job he's had has gone. It will happen again, if we give it time. That time is at the very least this full season, but in my opinion he needs a third season before we can really judge it.

There are two very recent examples of clubs in a similar state to Spurs were:

Liverpool:
2014/15 - 8th
2015/16 - 4th (Klopp takes over in October)
2016/17 - 4th
2017/18 - 4th
2018/19 - 2nd
2019/20 - 1st

First trophy: Champions League in 2018/19.

Arsenal:
2018/19: 5th
2019/20: 8th (Arteta takes over in December)
2020/21: 8th
2021/22: 5th
2022/23: 2nd
2023/24: 2nd

First (and only trophy to date): FA Cup 2019/20

The blueprint is clear. Managers need time. How much of a backbone do Spurs fans have? How many people are willing to stick it out for a bit, riding out the rough parts? Or do you want to sack the manager and start again? Because that's clearly worked every other time.

Fantastic post, mate…great summary.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Great post.

I'm wondering whether our new problem might eventually be having the tough choice to change the manager because he's plateau'd. Brendan Rodgers is a good manager but was replaced by Klopp. Pellegrini likewise, but Pep is clearly another level. Emery is another that has shown his talents since being replaced by Arteta. With guys like Eddie Howe and Ange, it does get you wondering whether they will be replaced without really doing much wrong. They have great opportunities with their clubs though and are the good guys in football.

I think Arteta is a very interesting case. I roared laughing when they appointed him. For 2-3 seasons, I couldn't see them becoming a team at all. It was very, very mediocre and wasn't even a good watch if you're misfortunate enough to support them. He was probably lucky that stadiums were empty in that time because there was a lot of fan sentiment against him. There was one Covid game where Villa dingdonged them 3-0 at their place and I was 100% certain Arteta was done.

He's turned them into a hell of a team (fudge I need a shower after saying that). That's why I can't get bogged down in my opinion on Ange's tactics. I've got to look at what I think is success (top 6) and allow him a little leeway on top of that. If he reaches those levels or gets close, he should stay.

Not every manager will do what Arteta has done, of course, but I couldn't have been more wrong about him.

 

[tommysvr]

Great post.

I'm wondering whether our new problem might eventually be having the tough choice to change the manager because he's plateau'd. Brendan Rodgers is a good manager but was replaced by Klopp. Pellegrini likewise, but Pep is clearly another level. Emery is another that has shown his talents since being replaced by Arteta. With guys like Eddie Howe and Ange, it does get you wondering whether they will be replaced without really doing much wrong. They have great opportunities with their clubs though and are the good guys in football.

I think there’s a lot of logic in that. But I think we’ve been there before: definitely with Jol, and probably Poch.

 

[Muttley]

He's turned them into a hell of a team (fudge I need a shower after saying that). That's why I can't get bogged down in my opinion on Ange's tactics. I've got to look at what I think is success (top 6) and allow him a little leeway on top of that. If he reaches those levels or gets close, he should stay.

I'm actually a little confused as to what our expectations should be nowadays. When I look at some of the spend charts, I'm left wondering whether 6th is OK anymore. I'm definitely in the camp that 6th and a cup trophy is better than 4th and no trophy though. Not sure what age posters are on here, but 1981-84 felt great for me as a kid. I'd love to see a new generation feel some of that cup success.

Ange is perhaps the manager who can bring that with his style of football. It doesn't yet look like he can sustain a 38 game challenge because of the flaws we all discuss. He is brave enough to get the footballing gods on his side and get the rewards that Arteta got with the FA Cup win though. ETH proved that last season.