Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[DubSpur]

Grey and Bergvall look good, but it's far too early to say they are/will be an improvement on PEH and Skipp. My point is it isn't obvious.
We'll also see about the CF position as to whether it is 'sorted' as you suggest. Certainly better to have bought one and held onto Richarlison.

Moving into the new stadium should mean we do indeed go for the higher calibre of experience player. Yes, it does mean paying top money: that was the point.

I wouldn't expect every position sorted at once but seeing what we saw last season not having bought a left-sided defender is again asking for trouble given how important we know Udogie and our FBs generally are to the system...

Higher calibre of players look to go to clubs that win things. Until we start doing that it's going to be very hard to attract them.

 

[laudhh]

Higher calibre of players look to go to clubs that win things. Until we start doing that it's going to be very hard to attract them.

reports that they have a five year plan and don't want to block youngsters pathway

 

[DeanoAustin]

Higher calibre of players look to go to clubs that win things. Until we start doing that it's going to be very hard to attract them.

There is an element of that but I also think top players go where will pay them the most. That's why a lot of very good players have gone to Saudi.

And this is where ENIC's ownership model limits us IMO. We actually spend a lot on transfer fees even relative to the big boys. We don't ever go for the 100m player but cumulatively, we have been competitive.

We don't pay the wages to get the best though. And it's my belief that Levy/ENIC, as good business people and responsible business people, are very conscious of metrics like 'wages to revenue' (where we are pretty much always the lowest % in the league) and the wage inflation paying one or two players massive guaranteed wages would bring.

We're a brilliantly run football club but unless we pay the wages, that will never translate to truly dining at the top table. And Levy/ENIC will never pay those wages IMO.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There is an element of that but I also think top players go where will pay them the most. That's why a lot of very good players have gone to Saudi.

And this is where ENIC's ownership model limits us IMO. We actually spend a lot on transfer fees even relative to the big boys. We don't ever go for the 100m player but cumulatively, we have been competitive.

We don't pay the wages to get the best though. And it's my belief that Levy/ENIC, as good business people and responsible business people, are very conscious of metrics like 'wages to revenue' (where we are pretty much always the lowest % in the league) and the wage inflation paying one or two players massive guaranteed wages would bring.

We're a brilliantly run football club but unless we pay the wages, that will never translate to truly dining at the top table. And Levy/ENIC will never pay those wages IMO.

We had higher wages than arsenal very recently

 

[Bedfordspurs]

reports that they have a five year plan and don't want to block youngsters pathway

Which is something the fans won’t like but is actually the most sensible plan
The key is what we add in t(e mean time
I still think this summer was about said depth and I think we’re nearly there
Then you add the stardust
We have dine it quicker than I expected

 

[laudhh]

There is an element of that but I also think top players go where will pay them the most. That's why a lot of very good players have gone to Saudi.

And this is where ENIC's ownership model limits us IMO. We actually spend a lot on transfer fees even relative to the big boys. We don't ever go for the 100m player but cumulatively, we have been competitive.

We don't pay the wages to get the best though. And it's my belief that Levy/ENIC, as good business people and responsible business people, are very conscious of metrics like 'wages to revenue' (where we are pretty much always the lowest % in the league) and the wage inflation paying one or two players massive guaranteed wages would bring.

We're a brilliantly run football club but unless we pay the wages, that will never translate to truly dining at the top table. And Levy/ENIC will never pay those wages IMO.

just top 4 it doesn't matter whether we got the squad to compete, once in it, but it's cash cow

 

[DubSpur]

There is an element of that but I also think top players go where will pay them the most. That's why a lot of very good players have gone to Saudi.

And this is where ENIC's ownership model limits us IMO. We actually spend a lot on transfer fees even relative to the big boys. We don't ever go for the 100m player but cumulatively, we have been competitive.

We don't pay the wages to get the best though. And it's my belief that Levy/ENIC, as good business people and responsible business people, are very conscious of metrics like 'wages to revenue' (where we are pretty much always the lowest % in the league) and the wage inflation paying one or two players massive guaranteed wages would bring.

We're a brilliantly run football club but unless we pay the wages, that will never translate to truly dining at the top table. And Levy/ENIC will never pay those wages IMO.

Putting Saudi aside, we are competitive on wages. We're 6th on the overall wage bill which is what you would roughly expect. I agree that we could push the boat out a little on occasions but I don't think it would make a major difference if any of the big teams are interested in a player.

Hopefully the new sustainability rules will close the gap as well on wages.

 

[DeanoAustin]

We had higher wages than arsenal very recently

I'm gonna make a bet that was the year when our revenue was also much higher than theirs so as a % of revenue, our wages were lower than theirs.

Levy is notorious for having performance clauses in contracts which will mean when we qualify for CL, the players will get paid more because the club is making more. But it's a one-off really for a club like us because we don't qualify every year (aside from the Poch years). It's a brilliant and sensible way to run a business but not to compete as a football club because if I'm a top player, I'll take guaranteed money rather than relying on too many variables I've limited control over.

 

[DeanoAustin]

From statista.com, the average salary of players for 2022/23:


So, we're slightly higher than Woolwich on wages but we also had 85m more revenue than them.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

From statista.com, the average salary of players for 2022/23:
View attachment 17604

So, we're slightly higher than Woolwich on wages but we also had 85m more revenue than them.

View attachment 17603

And if the players had achieved anything their wages may have gone up more
We have also spent more I believe

 

[DeanoAustin]

That's the percentage. We're the lowest and 14% behind the average. You can clearly see a lot of clubs living dangerously on this chart and I wouldn't advocate for that in a million years. But if this metric is consistently the lowest in the league, you're very unlikely to ever attract top players.

Good business sense, good way to run an organisation. Not a good way to break through to the top table.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

View attachment 17605
That's the percentage. We're the lowest and 14% behind the average. You can clearly see a lot of clubs living dangerously on this chart and I wouldn't advocate for that in a million years. But if this metric is consistently the lowest in the league, you're very unlikely to ever attract top players.

Good business sense, good way to run an organisation. Not a good way to break through to the top table.

I disagree
It just shows the issue clubs face
It’s why arsenal have loaned in two players rather than buy them because they restrictions on them, and they are a huge club

 

[DeanoAustin]

I disagree
It just shows the issue clubs face
It’s why arsenal have loaned in two players rather than buy them because they restrictions on them, and they are a huge club

Who was the last proven top player at his peak that we signed?

You could probably argue Davids but, realistically, you're looking at Klinsmann I reckon. 30 years ago.

I'm not damning ENIC here by any means. They run a good ship and football is batbrick crazy around finances in a way that wouldn't fly in many other industries. But they'll never compete for really top players because they will never pay the wages.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Who was the last proven top player at his peak that we signed?

You could probably argue Davids but, realistically, you're looking at Klinsmann I reckon. 30 years ago.

I'm not damning ENIC here by any means. They run a good ship and football is batbrick crazy around finances in a way that wouldn't fly in many other industries. But they'll never compete for really top players because they will never pay the wages.

Davids was past it but was a name
He also did some good and some bad things
Who signs anyone in their prime?
City
Arsenal haven’t from what I can tell
United have kinda tried but got it wrong
Who did Pool sign who was proven top flight? Thiago who was constantly injured
Chelsea was probably Silva

what is proven?

 

[DubSpur]

View attachment 17605
That's the percentage. We're the lowest and 14% behind the average. You can clearly see a lot of clubs living dangerously on this chart and I wouldn't advocate for that in a million years. But if this metric is consistently the lowest in the league, you're very unlikely to ever attract top players.

Good business sense, good way to run an organisation. Not a good way to break through to the top table.

So there's four clubs in real trouble, Brighton are probably ok as they sell well. Saudi Sportswashing Machine are struggling to buy as they will be outside the rules. Even Utd have had issues with buying as they will also fall outside the rules. I'm not saying Levy is perfect and we;ve probably missed out on one or two players because of wages but it's starting to look like the others will have to come more inline with the model Levy already has us working under.

 

[billyiddo]

I think our wages will jump up quite a bit in the coming seasons. We've cleared the squad of the older players not in our plans, replaced with younger (hopefully better) players on lower wages - our youngsters will get incremental wage hikes as is standard at Spurs if they impress, our more established senior players will also get wage increases as they negotiate new contracts.

What our position re wage bill currently means is that we can start being more competitive with wages with new signings now that the work needed on the team/squad is less. Currently top players aren't going to come here over CL clubs until we have re-established ourselves at that level, you'd imagine we will be competing with big clubs for that level of player so until we're able offer wages and being able to compete on the pitch we will likely be rejected by any serious player.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I think our wages will jump up quite a bit in the coming seasons. We've cleared the squad of the older players not in our plans, replaced with younger (hopefully better) players on lower wages - our youngsters will get incremental wage hikes as is standard at Spurs if they impress, our more established senior players will also get wage increases as they negotiate new contracts.

What our position re wage bill currently means is that we can start being more competitive with wages with new signings now that the work needed on the team/squad is less.

I don't believe that Levy will ever allow our wages to revenue ratio go over a certain level. That means we will always pay less than the big boys because our % is lower and that'll be exacerbated by the fact our revenue is lower than them too.

Our model, under ENIC, will always be to sign lads with potential, sell on value and have their contracts heavily loaded with pay for performance.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't believe that Levy will ever allow our wages to revenue ratio go over a certain level. That means we will always pay less than the big boys because our % is lower and that'll be exacerbated by the fact our revenue is lower than them too.

Our model, under ENIC, will always be to sign lads with potential, sell on value and have their contracts heavily loaded with pay for performance.

Again I don’t agree
Our wages have gone up as our turnover has gone up
But who have we missed out in because of wages????
Toney who we got solanke instead of
Outside of that, I don’t know

Do know that Osihmen hasn’t signed for any English side because of his wages
And we also know that clubs won’t be able to pay more wages soon because the new rules are about ratios

 

[DeanoAustin]

Again I don’t agree
Our wages have gone up as our turnover has gone up
But who have we missed out in because of wages????
Toney who we got solanke instead of
Outside of that, I don’t know

Do know that Osihmen hasn’t signed fir any English side because of his wages

As turnover goes up, our wages will go up in absolute terms but not in relative terms. And we're well behind the top clubs on both counts. ENIC will not bridge that gap.

Would we sign a Declan Rice? Would we sign an Erling Haaland? Would we try to sign Mo Salah if he leaves Liverpool in the summer? They are top players who would help you challenge for top prizes.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Higher calibre of players look to go to clubs that win things. Until we start doing that it's going to be very hard to attract them.

You tend to win things when you set out to - that means in part going for the higher calibre of players, i.e. paying the higher wages that we were told we needed the bigger stadium for....