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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Muttley said:
I'm actually a little confused as to what our expectations should be nowadays. When I look at some of the spend charts, I'm left wondering whether 6th is OK anymore. I'm definitely in the camp that 6th and a cup trophy is better than 4th and no trophy though. Not sure what age posters are on here, but 1981-84 felt great for me as a kid. I'd love to see a new generation feel some of that cup success.

Ange is perhaps the manager who can bring that with his style of football. It doesn't yet look like he can sustain a 38 game challenge because of the flaws we all discuss. He is brave enough to get the footballing gods on his side and get the rewards that Arteta got with the FA Cup win though. ETH proved that last season.
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It's a good question. I don't think 6th can be unacceptable for us. Disappointing? Possibly. But it can't be a sackable offence unless there are other factors at play (e.g. Conte-like meltdown). Chelsea, United, Liverpool, Arsenal have all been outside the top 6 multiple times in the last 15 years.

People need some perspective on what we are too. Yes, we should aim high. But in almost 150 years, we've won the league twice and rarely ever challenged. To expect that we will now is a little bit fanciful. Of course, we should hope but I don't think we have the right to expect at the moment.

I'd absolutely love a pot. Don't care what it is but it's been too long and I'd just love the day out at the game with my young fella and a reward at the end of it. Would also cut down a lot of the "witty" banter from other fans.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I think Arteta is a very interesting case. I roared laughing when they appointed him. For 2-3 seasons, I couldn't see them becoming a team at all. It was very, very mediocre and wasn't even a good watch if you're misfortunate enough to support them. He was probably lucky that stadiums were empty in that time because there was a lot of fan sentiment against him. There was one Covid game where Villa dingdonged them 3-0 at their place and I was 100% certain Arteta was done.

He's turned them into a hell of a team (fudge I need a shower after saying that). That's why I can't get bogged down in my opinion on Ange's tactics. I've got to look at what I think is success (top 6) and allow him a little leeway on top of that. If he reaches those levels or gets close, he should stay.

Not every manager will do what Arteta has done, of course, but I couldn't have been more wrong about him.
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Arteta is a very strange one, he's worked under three of the best managers in the game and they all thought very highly of him.
He's obviously clever, tactically astute, has faith in himself and his methods.
Where I think he is vulnerable is in man management, I don't think he is easy to get on with and that is fine when everything is going your way, but when the pressure is on it may unravel.
 
glasgowspur said:
Arteta is a very strange one, he's worked under three of the best managers in the game and they all thought very highly of him.
He's obviously clever, tactically astute, has faith in himself and his methods.
Where I think he is vulnerable is in man management, I don't think he is easy to get on with and that is fine when everything is going your way, but when the pressure is on it may unravel.
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For me Arteta's 'success' has less to do with him personally and more to do with the extremely well-functioning, everyone pulling in the same direction system they've managed to build. The club look totally aligned in everything they do. There's a confidence in every decision. They were derided for signing Havertz, but they owned it and it's paying off.

I think we are well on our way to that. Munn, Lange and Ange are seemingly all pulling in the same direction. Only time will tell.
 
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DeanoAustin said:
I think Arteta is a very interesting case. I roared laughing when they appointed him. For 2-3 seasons, I couldn't see them becoming a team at all. It was very, very mediocre and wasn't even a good watch if you're misfortunate enough to support them. He was probably lucky that stadiums were empty in that time because there was a lot of fan sentiment against him. There was one Covid game where Villa dingdonged them 3-0 at their place and I was 100% certain Arteta was done.

He's turned them into a hell of a team (fudge I need a shower after saying that). That's why I can't get bogged down in my opinion on Ange's tactics. I've got to look at what I think is success (top 6) and allow him a little leeway on top of that. If he reaches those levels or gets close, he should stay.

Not every manager will do what Arteta has done, of course, but I couldn't have been more wrong about him.
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I was definitely in a pretty small minority when lots of Spurs fans were saying 'I hope they keep Arteta'. I really wanted them to sack him and have to start all over again as I could see that he was implementing an effective pattern of play that some of his team weren't suited to playing but those that were more suited were getting better and better at implementing.

While he didn't have all of the players for that pattern at first but knew that if he could have multiple windows then he could gradually get more and more of the players required for his pattern of play and, as the team were playing the same way and becoming comfortable with that style, the journey was likely to deliver continual improvements.

The Arsenal board then had the right level of patience in him (probably helped by fans not being in the stadium during covid) stuck by him and, equally importantly, really back him and they are now reaping the rewards.

The question is whether our board have the same patience? History indicates to me that they probably don't. Though I'm hoping some lessons have been learned over the past few years.
 
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Finney Is Back said:
I was definitely in a pretty small minority when lots of Spurs fans were saying 'I hope they keep Arteta'. I really wanted them to sack him and have to start all over again as I could see that he was implementing an effective pattern of play that some of his team weren't suited to playing but those that were more suited were getting better and better at implementing.

While he didn't have all of the players for that pattern at first but knew that if he could have multiple windows then he could gradually get more and more of the players required for his pattern of play and, as the team were playing the same way and becoming comfortable with that style, the journey was likely to deliver continual improvements.

The Arsenal board then had the right level of patience in him (probably helped by fans not being in the stadium during covid) stuck by him and, equally importantly, really back him and they are now reaping the rewards.

The question is whether our board have the same patience? History indicates to me that they probably don't. Though I'm hoping some lessons have been learned over the past few years.
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It has Poch vibes around it
 
tommysvr said:
For me Arteta's 'success' has less to do with him personally and more to do with the extremely well-functioning, everyone pulling in the same direction system they've managed to build. The club look totally aligned in everything they do. There's a confidence in every decision. They were derided for signing Havertz, but they owned it and it's paying off.

I think we are well on our way to that. Munn, Lange and Ange are seemingly all pulling in the same direction. Only time will tell.
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100%
He is a functioning part of what they needed
Now though it’s all about delivery
The investment they have made is huge and they now need the silverware
I’m personally not sure how much coaching or tactical improvements he has made but what he has done is add the right parts. He now has more and more “senior” players to manage and keep happy. As long as its going well that’s easy
Saturday was a very interesting view point of how they look emotionally when things aren’t going their way
 
DeanoAustin said:
It's a good question. I don't think 6th can be unacceptable for us. Disappointing? Possibly. But it can't be a sackable offence unless there are other factors at play (e.g. Conte-like meltdown). Chelsea, United, Liverpool, Arsenal have all been outside the top 6 multiple times in the last 15 years.

People need some perspective on what we are too. Yes, we should aim high. But in almost 150 years, we've won the league twice and rarely ever challenged. To expect that we will now is a little bit fanciful. Of course, we should hope but I don't think we have the right to expect at the moment.

I'd absolutely love a pot. Don't care what it is but it's been too long and I'd just love the day out at the game with my young fella and a reward at the end of it. Would also cut down a lot of the "witty" banter from other fans.
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I really agree with this. I’ve seen people say we can challenge this year, I think they need to be more realistic. A top 4 push is most definitely achievable. Talk of pushing the top 2 is fanciful. The priority for me this season is a trophy in any form. I’d accept a lower league finish but whether the club would or not I’m not sure.
 
glasgowspur said:
No manager is coming into Tottenham and having us seriously challenging for the title within 3 seasons.
It's not happening, our base is not strong enough as a club.
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A lot can change in 3 seasons, we've a better base than when Pochettino took charge and have more money to invest
 
Bullet said:
Sit back and enjoy the ride.
Spurs are the fourth best team in Britain.
We are not Sheffield Wednesday.
ENJOY IT.
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Being the fourth best team brings associated expectations and pressures...particularly when it's coming towards two decades since we last won a trophy...
 
Finney Is Back said:
The question is whether our board have the same patience? History indicates to me that they probably don't. Though I'm hoping some lessons have been learned over the past few years.
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Do not disagree with most of your post but this is the bit that i think is important. My biggest worry is not whether the board have the patience but the fans turning on Ange. sadly its allready started by the kneejerkers among us.
 
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