Bedfordspurs
Les Bennett
An individual in the backline.. not individuals. One guy switching off stupidly, repeatedly.
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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo
- Thread starter tommysvr
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DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
For sure he deserves time. I said at the start of the season if he gets top 6, that's a job well done. Anything above is exceptional and, regardless of what I think of his tactics, if he achieves that, he's been a success and deserves another season minimum.
But at what point do you start judging a manager? Can you only judge each season in isolation? It's early days this season but we're seeing patterns repeat from last season so I think it's a worthwhile exercise to look at that period of time and it's a valid sample size (albeit my interpretation may eventually prove flawed).
Based on that sample size, we're heading for a 50-55 point season. It's fanciful, IMO, to expect Ange to push us on to be contenders - he'll need to up the run rate by 35-40 points over the next few seasons. He's not doing that playing this way IMO. He'll do well to get us around the 70 mark and challenging for top 4.
I think he can get us to a much better points total, not league winning but up there. But to do that in this system he needs top level fast defenders. At the moment we don't have that, definitely not in depth.
Bedfordspurs
Les Bennett
Each season you have to give them at least 10 games
You can’t run IMO, one season into another otherwise what’s the point of a transfer window and a pre season (not that we had much)
glasgowspur
Nayim
I see a fair amount of talk of challenging or even winning the PL, do people genuinely believe we are in a position to win the PL or get within 6 points of city?
Going to be a lot of disappointment and grief around if that is the case.
Going to be a lot of disappointment and grief around if that is the case.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
I don't think anyone believes or expects it right now. But Ange constantly talks about getting there and I get the sense fans are hoping Ange can do something that other recent managers haven't. Given we've had 3 guys who got us top 4, I think there is some hope he'll get us challenging eventually but maybe I'm off on that.
Personally, I think he gets us near top 4 and wins us a pot, he'll have done great.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
That's fair. Personally, I think our problems are structural and not personnel related but your pre-season point is a good one. I'll take a look after 10 or so games and see if it's the same pattern. I hope to GHod I'm wrong.
Bedfordspurs
Les Bennett
You went big last year in the first 10 pretty much with what your saying now..l it’s ain’t sustainable if things don’t change .. Let’s see if things do
Muttley
Paul Konchesky
Through PL history, I'm not sure I remember when all of the top clubs were on it at the same time. The first time we got CL was the end of the old top dominance of Utd, Chelsea, Gooner brick and Pool. City were one season from getting into top 4 and Crouchy did the rest. However, it was Liverpool's demise that was a major factor in us nicking that spot. I guess over the years, you can find more of this e.g. Jose's row with the club doctor and losing the changing room and plummeting in the league only for Conte to win the league the following season with no CL football. That was the year Leicester also famously snuck in an won the league on 81 points.
As I think about this season, I fear that we'll all be fighting for that 4th space slot behind City, Pool and Gooner brick who look locked in. Obviously, Villa managed to take advantage of Utd, Spurs, Chelsea and Saudi Sportswashing Machine's blip last season. Including Brighton and Villa, the question becomes whether Ange has the tools (players and tactics) to win that race? We also need the CL and EL/ECL teams to do well to get that UEFA coefficient up. It hurt when the Bundesliga got the 5th CL space.
So long way of saying that if Ange does get 4th, then that will be a massive achievement in the current climate. Par is probably 5th or 6th.
For now though, I'll just be judging on what I see with my own eyes at both ends of the pitch. There's clearly work to do on the training pitch.
glorygloryeze
Jack Jull
Sadly, i'm seeing the writing on the wall with big Ange. He's, let's be quite blunt, making us fully Spurzy..again...
I am not seeing any player actually improving the longer they are under his coaching. I'm seeing our overall play get WORSE the more time we have on the training field. We are giving away the same goals and making the same mistakes defensively, i.e. giving up high value chances from few opportunities. Yes, we can say we played well and dominated Saudi Sportswashing Machine to an extent, but frankly how long has it been since we were in a game with an opponent who would be classed as a near equal and us tactically outwit them to win a game? How many actual sitters are we actually missing these days?
In fact, who was the last 'good' opponent who we have beaten, i.e. who was the last win we've had against a team that couln't be decsribed as relegation fodder?
Also, we probably have personnel-wise much better individual defenders than what Conte and Jose had at their disposal. Yet we struggle to keep even one clean sheet in 8 games or so.
I think that is damning.
I also think our owners don't think much different given the way they've 'backed' him: when you scrutinise where we were at the end of the season and who we felt was needed to push on, have we really signed the type of players who you would look at and say 'yeah, we are really making an ambitious push upwards here'?
I don't think so, and i think again our board are playing the long-game of waiting for that once-in-decade time when the starts might align, but in the meantime lets' just admire how lovely our (mostly naive) attacking play is and make the ground a place to sing rock songs and live in our false hopes.
Sigh...
I am not seeing any player actually improving the longer they are under his coaching. I'm seeing our overall play get WORSE the more time we have on the training field. We are giving away the same goals and making the same mistakes defensively, i.e. giving up high value chances from few opportunities. Yes, we can say we played well and dominated Saudi Sportswashing Machine to an extent, but frankly how long has it been since we were in a game with an opponent who would be classed as a near equal and us tactically outwit them to win a game? How many actual sitters are we actually missing these days?
In fact, who was the last 'good' opponent who we have beaten, i.e. who was the last win we've had against a team that couln't be decsribed as relegation fodder?
Also, we probably have personnel-wise much better individual defenders than what Conte and Jose had at their disposal. Yet we struggle to keep even one clean sheet in 8 games or so.
I think that is damning.
I also think our owners don't think much different given the way they've 'backed' him: when you scrutinise where we were at the end of the season and who we felt was needed to push on, have we really signed the type of players who you would look at and say 'yeah, we are really making an ambitious push upwards here'?
I don't think so, and i think again our board are playing the long-game of waiting for that once-in-decade time when the starts might align, but in the meantime lets' just admire how lovely our (mostly naive) attacking play is and make the ground a place to sing rock songs and live in our false hopes.
Sigh...
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
We have lost/drawn more games that have been 'iffy' the other way so I would never worry about that part.
The 44 points from 31 games is worrying though. Firm midtable form.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
What did they say mate? (I couldn't bring myself to watch it).
How has he not been backed? He's been given a striker that should fit his style perfectly and that was the weakest area last year.
He's also been given a crop of really exciting young players to work with and he's stated he wants young players.
Basically highlighting Romero running almost the length of the pitch for the first goal and not getting back. Then the way he was positioned for the second goal so that he couldn't run back like the rest of the defence did.
Bedfordspurs
Les Bennett
They highlighted the attacks that w chose the wrong option
And Romero going wandering
It was lampard and shay given and honestly they nailed it
They talked about the first goal highlight that if Romero hadn’t gone wandering Bissouma would be marking the goal scorer rather then being deeper because he was covering
Showed how many times we went through the middle when we should have gone wide right
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
If I compare our performance yesterday with the one up at St James' Park last season then I'd say we have improved MASSIVELY. We got dismantled last year, second best all over the park. The complete opposite of yesterday.
I'd say the last time we beat a similar level opponent was Aston Villa away last season. When Emery tried to be a bit too clever.
glorygloryeze
Jack Jull
Where is the left-sided defender to rotate with Udogie? Who was the experienced leader in central midfielder to replace Hojbjerg?
Who's to say the 'exciting young players' won't be the next Reguillon etc who we struggle to move on in a few years? I think we've seen this whole 'exciting young players' before and how they need a smattering of higher calibre and experience to really get the best out of them (assuming the goal is to actually be as ambitious as Ange claimed he was last season..)
glorygloryeze
Jack Jull
Hmm, i'm not quite so sure. We started similarly last April vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine, they just were more ruthless with punishing our mistakes. They sat off us similarly yesterday as they did in April - we just had way more brainfarts in April but the overall way Newcaste and we approached the game was similar.
Indeed it was Villa and how long ago was that? And how many similar level opponents (or even opponents NOT involved in relegation fears) have we failed to beat since then? Not good viewing
We've sold PEH and Skipp and replaced them with Gray and Bergvall. That's already an improvement and both have the potential to be top players, PEH and Skipp didn't. We're light on LB but can cope there and there were bigger priorities to sort, especially CF which we did.
Going for high calibre and experience means paying top money and being able to attract those players. If we do manage to do that (and I think you see us as more attractive than we are) it will mean only a couple of signings are made.
We're not going to get every position sorted in one window but this did address the biggest areas of concern and hopefully next summer we can address the rest.
glorygloryeze
Jack Jull
Grey and Bergvall look good, but it's far too early to say they are/will be an improvement on PEH and Skipp. My point is it isn't obvious.
We'll also see about the CF position as to whether it is 'sorted' as you suggest. Certainly better to have bought one and held onto Richarlison.
Moving into the new stadium should mean we do indeed go for the higher calibre of experience player. Yes, it does mean paying top money: that was the point.
I wouldn't expect every position sorted at once but seeing what we saw last season not having bought a left-sided defender is again asking for trouble given how important we know Udogie and our FBs generally are to the system...