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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

Exactly .. goals automatically push numbers up.

there is no way if they went on the market now (all things being even, same level clubs buying, etc.) that Kane would go for less than Sterling

Would depend on a lot of factors. Right now one of the most important factors would be that Kane has over twice as long left on his contract, that would probably influence his price a lot.

We also have to differentiate between what the clubs would be willing to sell the two players for and what potential buyers might be willing to offer. There's a chance some clubs would be willing to offer more for Sterling than for Kane, if they see Sterling as the type of player they need and a bigger talent for the future. But there's also a chance that clubs would be willing to offer just as much for Kane as for Sterling... Right now I don't think any club would offer what we would accept for Kane so it's more of a theoretical discussion. I think it's possible that a deal could be agreed for Sterling though, in part because of his contract situation. But if it had been Kane with only two years left on his contract come the summer and refusing to sign a new one I'm convinced there would be a lot of interest at this stage from big clubs willing to put some big offers on the table.
 
At this point, sure.

But he had 3 years left last summer, perhaps they could have bumped him to 70-80k p/w, added a couple of bonuses, perhaps even a year or two where the club could lengthen the contract. The kind of stuff Levy does regularly and without much fanfare.

Or perhaps they could have been smarter when they signed him to his last contract, added some options on there. Even a one year option on the contract he signed a couple of years ago would have given them much more wiggle room and negotiating power now.

i dont think the real problem here is that he "only" has two and a half years left on his 35k current deal. i think its that he feels he should be on more money. and if he cant get it at liverpool, he probably wants to move elsewhere. two and a half years is plenty long enough for liverpool to evaluate their options imo. even if he was on 80k with three and a half years left, i still think he would be kicking up a fuss about his wages not matching his current level of ability. if liverpool had signed him up last year to another contract, sure, they could have more time. but i dont think this is the issue. like i have said, two and a half years is more than enough. in the next 6 months or so, liverpool basically need to decide whether they want to match his demands or let him go. this would be the case even if sterling had more time running on his contract. just like it was with us when we had bale.

sterling basically beleives he has got too big for the club imo (unless they can match his wage demands).

on a side note, i think it would be a "shame" from a competition perspective if liverpool couldnt keep hold of sterling. it seems as if in the past couple of years arsenal have taken a significant stride in distancing themselves from us and liverpool from a financial perspective. not only have they signed 2 expensive players on ~140k wages, they have tied down the likes of Wheelchair,ramsey, walcott etc to ~100k wages with ease. compare this with how liverpool are struggling to hold of their (probably) best player (who only wants similar wages to some of those top arsenal players), unfortunately i think its possible that arsenal and man utd could create daylight between them and the other top 4 contenders.
 
i dont think the real problem here is that he "only" has two and a half years left on his 35k current deal. i think its that he feels he should be on more money. and if he cant get it at liverpool, he probably wants to move elsewhere. two and a half years is plenty long enough for liverpool to evaluate their options imo. even if he was on 80k with three and a half years left, i still think he would be kicking up a fuss about his wages not matching his current level of ability. if liverpool had signed him up last year to another contract, sure, they could have more time. but i dont think this is the issue. like i have said, two and a half years is more than enough. in the next 6 months or so, liverpool basically need to decide whether they want to match his demands or let him go. this would be the case even if sterling had more time running on his contract. just like it was with us when we had bale.

sterling basically beleives he has got too big for the club imo (unless they can match his wage demands).

on a side note, i think it would be a "shame" from a competition perspective if liverpool couldnt keep hold of sterling. it seems as if in the past couple of years arsenal have taken a significant stride in distancing themselves from us and liverpool from a financial perspective. not only have they signed 2 expensive players on ~140k wages, they have tied down the likes of Wheelchair,ramsey, walcott etc to ~100k wages with ease. compare this with how liverpool are struggling to hold of their (probably) best player (who only wants similar wages to some of those top arsenal players), unfortunately i think its possible that arsenal and man utd could create daylight between them and the other top 4 contenders.

Contract length is clearly a factor. Everyone knows that as the contract gets shorter the price drops. This is what happened at Arsenal with players like RvP, Nasri, Clichy etc.

2 years is pretty much the breaking point, and Sterling will have two years left come the summer. This will most likely be the latest point Liverpool can expect to get top money for him, as next summer he'll just have one year left. They know that next summer they will have their hands forced like Arsenal and accept a cut-rate bid, or face a Lewandowski-type situation the year after. It's not 2 and a half years and plenty of time to evaluate their options. They have no guarantees that Sterling will sign on a year from now even for £150k p/w, all they know for sure is that right now he's (reportedly) turned down £100k p/w. Cue some big club turning on the spin cycle this summer and the pressure on Liverpool will just increase, 2 years left is not plenty of time.

Time left also influences the value of taking the immediate bump in pay from signing an extension. If Sterling knew that to get a very lucrative free transfer he first has to sit out another 3 years on his current £30k p/w compared to just 2 years that's a difference. Had he had even longer left that would obviously influence the situation even more.

Essentially for every passing month their negotiating position is getting weaker, they know that, Sterling knows that, Sterling's agent knows that and every club that might be interested in signing Sterling knows that. We don't even know if he and his agent made a contract demand at this point, all that's been reported is that he turned down a 100k p/w offer. And whatever demands he did make at this point won't necessarily be accepted at some point in the next 6 months...
 
I'm not saying that there weren't other factors than Levy's handling of the situation involved in Kane signing a new contract. If this much wasn't obvious I'm wasting my time discussing this with you...

im agreeing with you, that in this case, levy did well over the factors that were in his control. but i just think that a big part of the result kane's contract negotiations were due to outside influences/factors. im as big a fan of levy as anyone, and espeically on the way he seems to extract top top fees for our best players. but lets not forget that we have our adebayor/gomes moments too. if kane continues this kind of form for another 12 months, lets see what happens then. imo we'll probably be in a similar scenario to liverpool/sterling. i bet kane will start to create a fuss over how hes only on x amount when the likes of soldado are on whatever they are on.

Edit: Oh. And £25m is nowhere near a relevant amount, even for a theoretical discussion. Liverpool paid more than that for Lallana. Big clubs would be falling over themselves bidding for Kane if he became available for that kind of price.

I genuinely think the only reason no big clubs are showing (public) interest in Kane at this point is that they know Levy and how expensive Kane would be at this point.

i doubt that anyone would be desperate to pay more than 25m for kane. there are some other top young strikers in europe who are more established than kane that are demanding that kind of fee. ie. dybala.

someone said neymar was overrated in one of the other threads on this forum a few days ago. if anything, kane is far more overrated than neymar imo. the guy is 21 and only has 2 caps for england (one of them from the bench). hes still got a long way to go if he is to be rated as highly as other wonderkids like sterling.
 
Contract length is clearly a factor. Everyone knows that as the contract gets shorter the price drops. This is what happened at Arsenal with players like RvP, Nasri, Clichy etc.

i agree, but sterling still has close to 18months left before he reaches the final 12 months. and 12 months was what arsenal had left with those three players. yet still received relatively good fees for all of them. how much more could arsenal have got for those guys if they had more time on their contracts? not much imo. the kind of amount that can be basically be offset by the fact that arsenal got to use them for a cut price fee(as they didnt renegotiate their contracts to match market rate). ie. i think rvp was on ~100k at arsenal. hes rumoured to be on ~250k at man utd. that 150k difference is ~5m over the course a year.

2 years is pretty much the breaking point, and Sterling will have two years left come the summer. This will most likely be the latest point Liverpool can expect to get top money for him, as next summer he'll just have one year left. They know that next summer they will have their hands forced like Arsenal and accept a cut-rate bid, or face a Lewandowski-type situation the year after. It's not 2 and a half years and plenty of time to evaluate their options. They have no guarantees that Sterling will sign on a year from now even for £150k p/w, all they know for sure is that right now he's (reportedly) turned down £100k p/w. Cue some big club turning on the spin cycle this summer and the pressure on Liverpool will just increase, 2 years left is not plenty of time.

I think its more than enough time for liverpool to make a decision: whether to meet his demands, or sell him. if this was any other player, there wouldnt be an issue here at all. the issue is in the fact that sterling feels he has got too big for the club. and therefore this would be an issue even if he had 4 years left. liverpool still have plenty of time to decide how to progress in this matter. and their problem is that this negotiation is going to be a precedent-setter for them. the two and a half years remaining is not a big issue for liverpool. if that were the case, pretty much every club would be in turmoil atm.

Time left also influences the value of taking the immediate bump in pay from signing an extension. If Sterling knew that to get a very lucrative free transfer he first has to sit out another 3 years on his current £30k p/w compared to just 2 years that's a difference. Had he had even longer left that would obviously influence the situation even more.

in theory you are right. but we know that this isnt how football operates at this level. players dont just accept that they signed a 30k contract a while back and deal with it if they are putting in top performances. they sulk, and kick up a fuss. and so even if they do have many years left, when a players salary doesnt match his performances, they get a new contract that does: either at the current club or elsewhere. this only really changes when the player enter the final 12-18months of his contract. before that, any additional length remaining on a contract has minimal benefits when re-negotiating a contract.
 
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http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32143181

Fair play to the kid. He wants to win trophies. He gets talking about the Fa Cup, no mention of getting a top 4 trophy.
Why would he stay at Liverpool if that is his motivation? Especially if Rodgers is off to City in the summer. Why would he sign a contract right now if he doesn't know who will be managing the club next season?
I'm sure he knows exactly what clubs want him. What if he wants to go abroad?
I think the kid should not be attacked for showing ambition.
Also the idea that he in some way owes Liverpool something is ridiculous. They outbid City, United and Arsenal him at 15 for £5m.

hello, where has this come from.........i thought City are waiting for Guardiola in 2016 when his Bayern contract ends
 
im agreeing with you, that in this case, levy did well over the factors that were in his control. but i just think that a big part of the result kane's contract negotiations were due to outside influences/factors. im as big a fan of levy as anyone, and espeically on the way he seems to extract top top fees for our best players. but lets not forget that we have our adebayor/gomes moments too. if kane continues this kind of form for another 12 months, lets see what happens then. imo we'll probably be in a similar scenario to liverpool/sterling. i bet kane will start to create a fuss over how hes only on x amount when the likes of soldado are on whatever they are on.

i doubt that anyone would be desperate to pay more than 25m for kane. there are some other top young strikers in europe who are more established than kane that are demanding that kind of fee. ie. dybala.

someone said neymar was overrated in one of the other threads on this forum a few days ago. if anything, kane is far more overrated than neymar imo. the guy is 21 and only has 2 caps for england (one of them from the bench). hes still got a long way to go if he is to be rated as highly as other wonderkids like sterling.

He's English, home grown and proven in the Premier League. That adds quite a lot to his fee. Like I said, Liverpool paid more than that for Lallana - not a goalscoring midfielder, at 26... Kane would go for much more I think.

Dybala has scored fewer Serie A goals than Kane has scored Premier League goals, not sure I'm convinced by your comparison.

Adebayor/Gomes moments are not really relevant to what I'm talking about here...

i agree, but sterling still has close to 18months left before he reaches the final 12 months. and 12 months was what arsenal had left with those three players. yet still received relatively good fees for all of them. how much more could arsenal have got for those guys if they had more time on their contracts? not much imo. the kind of amount that can be basically be offset by the fact that arsenal got to use them for a cut price fee(as they didnt renegotiate their contracts to match market rate). ie. i think rvp was on ~100k at arsenal. hes rumoured to be on ~250k at man utd. that 150k difference is ~5m over the course a year.



I think its more than enough time for liverpool to make a decision: whether to meet his demands, or sell him. if this was any other player, there wouldnt be an issue here at all. the issue is in the fact that sterling feels he has got too big for the club. and therefore this would be an issue even if he had 4 years left. liverpool still have plenty of time to decide how to progress in this matter. and their problem is that this negotiation is going to be a precedent-setter for them. the two and a half years remaining is not a big issue for liverpool. if that were the case, pretty much every club would be in turmoil atm.



in theory you are right. but we know that this isnt how football operates at this level. players dont just accept that they signed a 30k contract a while back and deal with it if they are putting in top performances. they sulk, and kick up a fuss. and so even if they do have many years left, when a players salary doesnt match his performances, they get a new contract that does: either at the current club or elsewhere. this only really changes when the player enter the final 12-18months of his contract. before that, any additional length remaining on a contract has minimal benefits when re-negotiating a contract.

His contract runs out in the summer 2 years from now, right? By refusing to sign now and stopping negotiations he's essentially saying that next negotiations will be during or after the summer transfer window. The summer transfer window essentially starts at the end of this season. That's a couple of months away, at best, for Liverpool. With little action in the January transfer windows that leaves this summer window if they want to get maximum value in the transfer market, that definitely increased the pressure on the club. The same was the situation for us with Carrick and Berbatov when they refused to sign new contracts with two years left, for financially well run clubs that two year mark is a breaking point.

I think Arsenal would have gotten significantly more, or flat out refused to sell to rivals, for RvP, Clichy and Nasri. I don't think those sales have been good deals in isolation and I think they were only made because of the contract situations.

Disagree that all clubs would be in turmoil. Most clubs, like ours, try to keep important players that are young or relatively young and performing really well on contracts with more than two years left.
 
He's English, home grown and proven in the Premier League. That adds quite a lot to his fee. Like I said, Liverpool paid more than that for Lallana - not a goalscoring midfielder, at 26... Kane would go for much more I think.

Dybala has scored fewer Serie A goals than Kane has scored Premier League goals, not sure I'm convinced by your comparison.

Adebayor/Gomes moments are not really relevant to what I'm talking about here...

Kane being english will add a few more millions, but if he really could command a fee in excess of 25m, do you really think he would have accpeted a 40/50k pw deal? name me one other young english player who would have done so. because hes english and been on a fine run of form, and because he seems a nice bloke, hes being massively overrated atm. hes the proto-typical overhyped english player in every sense (at the moment). when people talk about overrating english players, harry kane is exactly the type of player they are referring to. once a bit of time has passed, people will realise this.

Dybala has scored fewer goals, and yet i still think hes worth more. he has proven his level over a longer period of time.


His contract runs out in the summer 2 years from now, right? By refusing to sign now and stopping negotiations he's essentially saying that next negotiations will be during or after the summer transfer window. The summer transfer window essentially starts at the end of this season. That's a couple of months away, at best, for Liverpool. With little action in the January transfer windows that leaves this summer window if they want to get maximum value in the transfer market, that definitely increased the pressure on the club. The same was the situation for us with Carrick and Berbatov when they refused to sign new contracts with two years left, for financially well run clubs that two year mark is a breaking point.




I think Arsenal would have gotten significantly more, or flat out refused to sell to rivals, for RvP, Clichy and Nasri. I don't think those sales have been good deals in isolation and I think they were only made because of the contract situations.

Disagree that all clubs would be in turmoil. Most clubs, like ours, try to keep important players that are young or relatively young and performing really well on contracts with more than two years left.

according to transfermarkt.com, rvp moved for £27m, nasri for £24m, and clichy £7m. i agree that arsenal probably wouldnt have wanted to lose all of them, but to suggest that they would have got signifcantly more for these players (had their contracts been longer) is wrong imo. and they didnt have to incur the costs of administrating a new contract (ie. signing fees/ agent fees), as well as paying higher wages for the period until they sold the player (if they wanted to do so), which they would have done if they wanted to extend the players' contracts.

in the same way, had liverpool offered sterling a new deal last season, they would have incurred a bunch of these costs. yes they would probably receive a higher transfer fee, but a large part of it would be offset by these contract renogiation costs imo. and another benefit of not having offered him a new bumper deal last year (when he wasnt as proven) was that they didnt take on the risk of having an "adebayor-scenario".

i think this debate is simple really. in which of these scenarios would there be an issue at liverpool right now:

- if sterling was already on 120k and had 2 and a half years left.

- or, do you think there would be more of an issue if sterling was on 35k, but had 5 years still left on his contract?

for me its obviously the latter. This whole situation is simply about a player who thinks hes one of the best young players in europe, but being underpaid. and the friction is arising because liverpool dont have the financial capacity to pay for one of the best young players in europe.

unless liverpool change their wage structure, i dont think these two parties will be compatible, and sterling will probably have to move on.
 
Zidane has admitted they are prepared to start tapping him up as soon as he shows some form.
 
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that's the risk of making them young ones the stars of the team.
could happen to us too, you'll never know. our only insurance is our youth football development conveyor belt.
 
Is it me or is there a witch-hunt over Raheem Sterling? Have to admit the balloon laughing gas clips don't look good but now the shisha ones! Yes, it's probably not good for an athlete (as an ex-smoker and ex-shisha owner, I wouldn't touch either ever again - hopefully) but the stories! oh man! The Daily Fail true to form even talk about his Fanta!!! (yeah, it's not sugar-free or Zero).

These players do have to be wiser and choose their friends more carefully (particularly whilst being filmed by them) but seriously!?
 
I'm suprised they can even go out at all nowadays. Bloody camera phones everywhere on a night out. I bet so many people in clubs just film them for no other reason than to say 'look who was there last night' You're bound to accidently film something that could look dodgy at some point.

Can you imagine if Gazza and his era were filmed on every night out!?
 
Is it me or is there a witch-hunt over Raheem Sterling? Have to admit the balloon laughing gas clips don't look good but now the shisha ones! Yes, it's probably not good for an athlete (as an ex-smoker and ex-shisha owner, I wouldn't touch either ever again - hopefully) but the stories! oh man! The Daily Fail true to form even talk about his Fanta!!! (yeah, it's not sugar-free or Zero).

These players do have to be wiser and choose their friends more carefully (particularly whilst being filmed by them) but seriously!?

Not as much a witch-hunt as just the standard blowing everything up massively over exposure that is so standard. A full week of newspaper columns, front and back pages, clickbaity-headlines, tv hours, radio hours etc to fill in between each game. Something has to be printed/said/shown.

I do think when these players are asking for that kind of money that the fans have some right to expect some professionalism in return. It's like that Rio tweet some time ago about wanting people to spare a thought for him not being able to get drunk over Christmas or whatever it was. Nope. That's not on, you don't get to complain about that. And Sterling has to accept that if they get caught doing silly unprofessional things it will be plastered all over the front pages and will continue to be an issue for weeks. Because it's not just his future, he's (potentially) asking Liverpool to commit to paying him tens of millions of pounds over a handful of years for his footballing ability. The fans of that club will see it as an issue if he doesn't approach that with commitment and professionalism.

For ourselves it's one of those things we have to get good at as a club. Instilling the right attitude into our players at a relatively young age, if we want to really produce top class home grown young players.
 
I'm suprised they can even go out at all nowadays. Bloody camera phones everywhere on a night out. I bet so many people in clubs just film them for no other reason than to say 'look who was there last night' You're bound to accidently film something that could look dodgy at some point.

Can you imagine if Gazza and his era were filmed on every night out!?

On the other hand... Is there a chance that in today's world Gazza wouldn't have imploded the way he did because of the attention that kind of self destructive behaviour would have gotten at a much earlier stage?
 
it obviously wasn't camera phone video but the sun regularly had gazza and danny baker falling out of nightclubs or into kebab shops with jimmy five bellies as the cover story
 
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