• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

*** Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa ***

We were OK up until conceding. Far from great, but OK. We didn't create enough, but they created just about nothing, then a shot from way out, Hugo spills it, chaos.

Compared to our recent run of first half performances that was a step up. Need to create more though.

Can point blame in a lot of directions. With Kulusevski and Bentancur out, Son completely off form. No Richarlison. It's apparently a big ask. But we need to find some answers.
 
Either way, the club has to make a stand. Either we back Conte with what he needs (exactly what he says he needs, within reason. Sorry mate, no Mbappe) AND hold him accountable for it (you get sacked, 25% of the transfer fees come out of your sendoff payment or whatever it's called) or we cut the tie. We can't throw away a season and potential CL play having a manager sulking about not having this and that and a creative player out of a squad of 40 or whatever, and players refusing to play for 90 minutes. And having a few injuries shouldn't lead to the rest of the players going into a collective depression where they seem to forget how to do the most basic things. No risk, no reward. Without having a microounce of saying in that matter, I'd go with that.

I very much doubt any manager - regardless one of Conte's calibre - would agree to such a deal. However, since I'm not a board member but just a simple fan, I tend to see things a bit differently.

There's no doubt in my mind that Conte is a top manager. He's been dealt a brick hand, not so much because of injuries but because of what happened at the World Cup, the loss of his fitness coach and the number of games played so far this season, as already mentioned in this thread.

My feeling is that when his plan works, you get a team that is stronger than the sum of its parts (to coin a phrase) because the system is more important than the individuals. Three years down the line, I believe he could have better results with a new striker who'd be vastly inferior to Kane, for instance. But three years is an awfully long time. It's actually the average lifespan of a football manager at a club. On the flip side, his system relies on a very stable first XI, which means results will suffer when many players get injured at the same time or when he needs to rest a lot of players. From what I've seen, it's very difficult to break into the side, because newcomers need to adapt to the system itself and need to know their closest partners like the back of their hands.

It took Perisic (who knew the system) some time to break into the side. Doherty is doing fairly well but mostly because Royal couldn't fit in and Bissouma, for instance, hasn't been anywhere near the player he was at Brighton, so far (all in my opinion, of course).

But from an observer's point of view... well, we're not very fun to watch, are we? As I watched the game yesterday, I couldn't help but think that, at least, under Mourinho, we had the Kane/Son partnership to look forward to. Until he lost the rest of the dressing room, we played with more flair under Mourinho than we've been so far this season. Now, it's just people passing the ball about with little conviction for 60 minutes, plus a couple of guys who look lost on the pitch.

Changing managers every time the weather turns foul is no way to build a successful club, that goes without saying. At the same time, you could argue that Conte did himself no favour by constantly threatening to leave last season and with his brand of football (although the latter is hardly a surprise). If I were Levy, I wouldn't pull the trigger; as a fan, I wouldn't mind if he left.
 
My feeling is that when his plan works, you get a team that is stronger than the sum of its parts (to coin a phrase) because the system is more important than the individuals. Three years down the line, I believe he could have better results with a new striker who'd be vastly inferior to Kane, for instance. But three years is an awfully long time. It's actually the average lifespan of a football manager at a club.

I agree with a lot of what you say, and in theory with the above too, but the longest he's ever stayed at a club is 3 years (Juventus) and they won the league each season. I just don't see how it works with him at Spurs.
 
vs Brentford and today we didn’t get the luck that you sometimes need, but the fudging desire was lacking so much it was scary
Villa had a French kid in CM who absolutely owned Bissouma
Konsa (very good Cb) won everything that came near him and was outstanding
Players can step up if they work hard but we didn’t work hard enough

against Brentford I still think we did enough to win it but didn’t get the rub of the green. But we could have made it much easier

Thought our effort dropped towards the end. But it didn't seem like an issue against Brentford or against Villa up until the end to me at least.

Short on quality and decision making though. I strongly believe that Kulusevski and Bentancur would have made a real difference. But we're carrying Son out there. Bissouma is looking completely out of place. We can't have that and miss Kulusevski and Bentancur at the same time.
 
Enic will go when someone offers them enough money
We have this every time we’re poor…
Enic need to go
Get out of my club
It’s all their fault
The reality though is someone has to offer them enough money to buy it. It’s really that simple and won’t change until that happens
doesn,t the buck stop with those who are running the show..All I am saying is that on the playing field they have improved us..
but have failed to get us to win a single trophy. Another throw of the dice of owner might backfire unless we get some super rich
company who are willing to spend. Anyway Money has ruined the game hasn,t it. Admitted contradiction there but the club needs so to get some bottle from somewhere..we are too nicey and need to go out with a diferent attitude especially in the games
that count when we have had a chance to go near the top and challenge..and then we blow it. How many times does it happen? its as if the pressure too much at being a top side.........
 
We need more quality depth. Injuries aside, we need to be able to rest Kane, rest Son, rest them both at the same time occasionally. Dier was rested yet the same issues occurred (unsurprisingly I might add), so we need another CB, we need better quality at WB. I felt we needed an extra but am starting to think Sarr can be that man. We will sell Skippy in the next 6 months IMO, and I personally would be looking to upgrade on Bissouma, as I don’t think he’s going to be good enough for us.

Agree we needed to be able to rest and rotate the front players especially in the first half of the season where being in the CL this season has created a schedule like no other due to the world cup.

Its so rare we had the luxury to do it during that spell of a PL or CL game every few days from August 28th through to November 6th, save for one international break during that period. Mostly there was always one or two missing out of our 5 primary attacking options, this putting increasing strain on those who were fit playing in this relentless schedule.

The plan could never have been for Kane to play 90 mins in all these games. He should by all accounts have broken down like all others around him. And to your point I think the plan was to rest Kane occasionally and play Richy in the middle with Son and Kulu wide.

Again you are right depth is key as whilst a freak situation (injuries and unique schedule) has crippled our multiple viable options in attack, all we have to do is lose one defender (Romero) and one midfielder (Bentancur) and the drop in quality is huge.

The good news is the unique schedule is over with occasional moments of a week between games coming up or a domestic cup against lower league sides where we could rest players. Just need to get Bentancur, Richy, Kulu, Lucas back fit and do some solid business in January.
 
So Romero, Deki and Richarlison have missed loads of games by your own numbers. Bentancur missed game(s) prior to the world cup and has missed our last two since we returned and will miss more from Palace onwards no doubt, ditto for Kulu. Lucas has missed loads of games and will continue to miss loads of games. Doherty has been unable to start in loads of games as he got back up to speed after his serious injury last season. Son was injured. Others have been injured too.

There are two specific points however that you seem either unable or unwilling to understand. The first is how our attack has been decimated by injuries. Kulu, Richy and Lucas have all missed loads of games often at the same time. Son has also missed games. Kane has therefore had to play 90 mins every few days for many many games. The other point which magnifies the injury situation is the schedule which you refer to as ‘the nature of the modern game’. That is simply not correct. This season the schedule has been like no other for those teams playing in the CL. Since the CL began these teams have literally been playing highly competitive games every few days all the way through until the world cup. That is not the modern game, it is the symptom of having a winter world cup which has never happened in football history.

Its fair enough if you are unable or unwilling to understand the significance of what I have outlined. It would be interesting to know what you would like to see happen moving forward however. Are you advocating for some kind of change within the structure of the club. You are clearly very unhappy and do not feel there are any justifiable mitigating factors for performances this season, so what is it you want?

I’ll certainly give you Kulu, Richarlison and Romero. But in the league and CL combined, Son’s missed 2 games and Bentancur’s missed 3 - don’t think you can include them as part of a freak injury crisis.
 
Last edited:
I’ll certainly give you Kulu, Richarlison and Romero. But Son’s missed 2 league games and Bentancur’s missed 3 - don’t think you can include them as part of a freak injury crisis.

I don't think there's been a freak injury crisis. Mostly an expected number of injuries, but unfortunate with them coming mostly for players we don't have good cover for.

Son has been missing most of the season, but not with injury. Just missing the form and quality we know he's been capable of.
 
We were OK up until conceding. Far from great, but OK. We didn't create enough, but they created just about nothing, then a shot from way out, Hugo spills it, chaos.

Compared to our recent run of first half performances that was a step up. Need to create more though.

Can point blame in a lot of directions. With Kulusevski and Bentancur out, Son completely off form. No Richarlison. It's apparently a big ask. But we need to find some answers.

It was a similar first half performance to any game where the opponents sit back and rarely venture forward - sometimes in these types of games we have made the costly mistakes during this period and gone behind despite us having most the ball, the only difference yesterday was we didn't balls up until the second half.
 
I don't think there's been a freak injury crisis. Mostly an expected number of injuries, but unfortunate with them coming mostly for players we don't have good cover for.

Son has been missing most of the season, but not with injury. Just missing the form and quality we know he's been capable of.

The issue of injuries to our front players is magnified when due to being in the CL and due to the one off winter world cup we had to play a PL or CL game every few days between late August and early November apart from one international break where the likes of Kane played two more games.

Worth adding btw that I feel like I am defending a man who has led us to mid table this season and relegation from our CL group to the EL. Whereas in reality we made our best ever start to a PL season, sat 4th before the break, and topped our CL group.
 
Has anybody mentioned Kane's part in our defeat yet? The fact he had such an off game along with Son must surely be a big reason why we lost.

He had zero touches in the first 15 minutes, and Son only 4, so it was a bit like nine against 11.

He got a bit more involved thereafter but his touch was largely missing. Passes were going astray and I believe he had just one attempt on target all game. If that had gone mind, good chance Villa would have started to sit back and we would have rallied.

Does not help that Son is going through such a prolonged spell of poor form, but with Kulu, Richy and Benty out you are hardly going to leave him out too. Gil showed us why, he offered practically zero threat. But Son clearly needs a spell on the sidelines in order to re-stoke his boilers asap.

Final point. Seem to remember we were all in despair arounfd this time last year but then along came Kulu and Benty and everything changed. So I think we need to allow Conte a bit more slack.

Let's see how things pan out once those two and Richarilson are back before we bay for Conte to be sacked.
 
Has anybody mentioned Kane's part in our defeat yet? The fact he had such an off game along with Son must surely be a big reason why we lost.

He had zero touches in the first 15 minutes, and Son only 4, so it was a bit like nine against 11.

He got a bit more involved thereafter but his touch was largely missing. Passes were going astray and I believe he had just one attempt on target all game. If that had gone mind, good chance Villa would have started to sit back and we would have rallied.

Does not help that Son is going through such a prolonged spell of poor form, but with Kulu, Richy and Benty out you are hardly going to leave him out too. Gil showed us why, he offered practically zero threat. But Son clearly needs a spell on the sidelines in order to re-stoke his boilers asap.

Final point. Seem to remember we were all in despair arounfd this time last year but then along came Kulu and Benty and everything changed. So I think we need to allow Conte a bit more slack.

Let's see how things pan out once those two and Richarilson are back before we bay for Conte to be sacked.

Was disappointed in Harry. I've been watching him closely in his last few games, and he doesn't look like he has the same drive and hunger he used to. He tends to just hang around between the two central defenders waiting for something to happen. Compare that to Haaland who as soon as City are attacking is constantly moving and looking for space.
 
I agree with a lot of what you say, and in theory with the above too, but the longest he's ever stayed at a club is 3 years (Juventus) and they won the league each season. I just don't see how it works with him at Spurs.

Which again begs the question, why do those at the top appoint these type of managers if they don’t have plans to fully back them?
 
Was disappointed in Harry. I've been watching him closely in his last few games, and he doesn't look like he has the same drive and hunger he used to. He tends to just hang around between the two central defenders waiting for something to happen. Compare that to Haaland who as soon as City are attacking is constantly moving and looking for space.

Could be in part that he is a yellow card away from a ban, also hard to get space when Villa are literally playing a back 6 at times.

Anyway everyone has an opinion doesn’t mean its right. There were city fans on the radio after they drew with Everton bemoaning that Haaland apparently others absolutely nothing apart from goals, whereas according to them Kane gives you an all round game ;)
 
If we're worried about who holds the cards then the problems run deep - without all on the same page at the top level we're going nowhere. Conte always has the option to walk away from a long contract, so not much changes in that regard.

If he wants to be judged long term, then he needs to show us that's what he's here for.

So if he can walk away from a long contract its meaningless.
For my mind a lot of this conversation would not be happening if arsenal weren't doing so well and poch was in a job.
No manager is going to come in and change the mess we were in in two windows, and conte knows it.
And were would he go if he leaves? There's no top job out there and when one does come up tuchel, poch are also available.
I can't see any real reason for him to leave.
 
Which again begs the question, why do those at the top appoint these type of managers if they don’t have plans to fully back them?

I think its premature to say he is not being fully backed after two windows. I think the plan was to back him and also make the occasional club signing like Spence. Doesn’t mean I agree with it but Conte hinted as much that would be the approach not long after he was appointed.

We certainly aren’t appointed managers on the remit of what will placate the fans!
 
So if he can walk away from a long contract its meaningless.
For my mind a lot of this conversation would not be happening if arsenal weren't doing so well and poch was in a job.
No manager is going to come in and change the mess we were in in two windows, and conte knows it.
And were would he go if he leaves? There's no top job out there and when one does come up tuchel, poch are also available.
I can't see any real reason for him to leave.

It's not meaningless as it at least shows some form of intent to the fans and will, imv at least, buy you time with them - as stated he currently is on a short term contract so how can you judge him on the long term? There's nothing to suggest a new contract would be agreed at this stage so he's here for another season contractually assuming the extension gets taken up.
 
Was disappointed in Harry. I've been watching him closely in his last few games, and he doesn't look like he has the same drive and hunger he used to. He tends to just hang around between the two central defenders waiting for something to happen. Compare that to Haaland who as soon as City are attacking is constantly moving and looking for space.

Its the way he plays now, and he played exactly the same for England at the World Cup. He doesnt hare around the place for either club or country

What would help him a lot is if we had players who could run in behind the defence or beat players 1:1. We're so easy to defend against because we just play in front of an opposition so are easily contained.

In Conte's system a lot of that needs to come from the WBs. Ours are slow and ponderous
 
Back