Timo Werner

[Bedfordspurs]

I know that his opportunities today weren’t quite this clear cut but he’ll be 29 years old in a few months so there’s little chance of Werner’s finishing becoming any less profligate and whilst his work rate is top drawer I sincerely hope that Moore and Odobert are able to move ahead of him in the pecking order this season so that we still have a goal threat on the left when Son is unavailable.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1335922466426904576

https://twitter.com/x/status/1387388696543039492

They aren’t good misses but they were actually also very good saves. Onana is a very good one on one keeper and he did a similar thing with solanke
One miss would be accepted but two highlights the issue
What I’ll add too though is son had 2 on one ones last week and missed them without the keeper making a save …

 

[SkipRat]

They aren’t good misses but they were actually also very good saves. Onana is a very good one on one keeper and he did a similar thing with solanke
One miss would be accepted but two highlights the issue
What I’ll add too though is son had 2 on one ones last week and missed them without the keeper making a save …

Just goes to show what a complete shower we have on the left.

 

[tommysvr]

He's pretty crap but if any of Son, Odobert or Richarlison were fit he'd be on the bench. I suspect he'll have Moore in front of him by February.

 

[metalgear]

ah such an interesting "almost player" that werner is

he can pass a player and put in a cross better than most - just need to apply the same in 1-on-1's with keepers!

do we have a sports psychologist who can help him with his mental block?

 

[Gazza]

So we are allowed to be critical of Werner but not Johnson (even though he has hit a purple patch now.

What happened to cheering him on and supporting his confidence etc.

 

[fernadez]

Thought he played well, and more importantly played the position well. Beat his man on the outside repeatedly which no other winger in the squad is capable off. It's something that completely changes the dynamic of our attacking play, every other time it's, slow down, stop, play inside and let the defence regroup.

Reminds me of Perisic in that he just makes the right in game decision. Finishes were crap but I'd take his performance over the way Son has been playing.

 

[Raziel]

Thought he played well, and more importantly played the position well. Beat his man on the outside repeatedly which no other winger in the squad is capable off. It's something that completely changes the dynamic of our attacking play, every other time it's, slow down, stop, play inside and let the defence regroup.

Reminds me of Perisic in that he just makes the right in game decision. Finishes were crap but I'd take his performance over the way Son has been playing.

In a closer game he could be a problem, but his misses will cause lots of people to miss the fact his runs cause issues, force defenders back, opens spaces elsewhere.

 

[Gazza]

Think his running frightens the full backs and pins them back forcing the space in front of them. His decision making is good but is finishing needs serious attention. If he had some composure he would be such a weapon

 

[braineclipse]

Thought he played well, and more importantly played the position well. Beat his man on the outside repeatedly which no other winger in the squad is capable off. It's something that completely changes the dynamic of our attacking play, every other time it's, slow down, stop, play inside and let the defence regroup.

Reminds me of Perisic in that he just makes the right in game decision. Finishes were crap but I'd take his performance over the way Son has been playing.

In a closer game he could be a problem, but his misses will cause lots of people to miss the fact his runs cause issues, force defenders back, opens spaces elsewhere.

Fully agreed with both of you.

People will probably disagree with some of this, but I'd rather have a player that fits the system and mostly plays well within the system and struggles with end product rather than the opposite.

Shortages in end product, particularly missed chances, are much more visible or at least gets more attention. But not functioning well within the system causes so many problems.

Of course we want players who do more, do both, but for now Werner is a functional part as a squad player as we wait for Odobert, Moore, whoever ends up becoming that player.

 

[spurspinter1]

So we are allowed to be critical of Werner but not Johnson (even though he has hit a purple patch now.

What happened to cheering him on and supporting his confidence etc.

Quote a single instance of anyone saying you aren't allowed to be critical of Johnson. Who does the hyperbole benefit mate really?

The general vibe, as I understood it is that it's not cool to abuse players, but there is still the option of discussing a player / his performance.

I must say though, even as someone who appreciates why we have brought in Timo again, at a few key points yesterday I did find myself muttering "fudge off Werner" at the TV, which admittedly isn't super supportive / productive - I'm still traumatized by events at Old Trafford and against better teams we have to be more clinical.

 

[Gazza]

Quote a single instance of anyone saying you aren't allowed to be critical of Johnson. Who does the hyperbole benefit mate really?

The general vibe, as I understood it is that it's not cool to abuse players, but there is still the option of discussing a player / his performance.

I must say though, even as someone who appreciates why we have brought in Timo again, at a few key points yesterday I did find myself muttering "fudge off Werner" at the TV, which admittedly isn't super supportive / productive - I'm still traumatized by events at Old Trafford and against better teams we have to be more clinical.

Just seems the general mood about Johnson reading through the posts. I say loads when I’m watching spurs on TV or on the forum but wouldn’t carry that forward if I’m at the game. Support all of the players no matter what … only player that I have booed was hosam ghaly when he threw the shirt on the floor

 

[Jurgen the German]

I know that his opportunities today weren’t quite this clear cut but he’ll be 29 years old in a few months so there’s little chance of Werner’s finishing becoming any less profligate and whilst his work rate is top drawer I sincerely hope that Moore and Odobert are able to move ahead of him in the pecking order this season so that we still have a goal threat on the left when Son is unavailable.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1335922466426904576

https://twitter.com/x/status/1387388696543039492

I think the two chances he had were clear cut. He was 1 on 1 both times.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Thought he played well, and more importantly played the position well. Beat his man on the outside repeatedly which no other winger in the squad is capable off. It's something that completely changes the dynamic of our attacking play, every other time it's, slow down, stop, play inside and let the defence regroup.

Reminds me of Perisic in that he just makes the right in game decision. Finishes were crap but I'd take his performance over the way Son has been playing.

I’d take Son’s end product over what Werner gives us.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

In a closer game he could be a problem, but his misses will cause lots of people to miss the fact his runs cause issues, force defenders back, opens spaces elsewhere.

It could
but players do miss chances, and some more than others
As I said last week, Sonny got plaudits for 2 assists but he was poor Imo. Missed 2 one on ones and didn’t even shoot and should have had at least one more assist…. But it’s Sonny so we know what he can do, right
Sonny makes the opposition think most of the time
Werner does too
Their threat is there and they won’t always be against a keeper who is excellent one on one
On the Timo thing I do think his shooting is much much better when he has no time.

 

[spurspinter1]

Just seems the general mood about Johnson reading through the posts. I say loads when I’m watching spurs on TV or on the forum but wouldn’t carry that forward if I’m at the game. Support all of the players no matter what … only player that I have booed was hosam ghaly when he threw the shirt on the floor

Does it really seem that way to you? Again quotes for context wouldn't hurt. I get exaggerating for comedic effect but as it doesn't appear as if you're joking, an explanation on the purpose of the hyperbole would be appreciated as I requested.

Back on Werner, what surprised me wasn't necessarily the misses, but more the cut back to nobody. It's not that he always plays with his head up but from his time here he can instinctively get the ball in the right areas, much like Johnson. I'm not sure whether Maddison could've held his run for a second, maybe I'm clutching at straws to not lay the blame on Timo there though.

On the support thing it's an interesting one - It's not supportive to tut and sigh when a player messes up, it's often a natural response and sounds worse when it's a collective groan from 60,000 people. It's not abusive, but it's not helpful, but it seems a bit of an ask to ask fans to repress their instinctive reaction to an event. Obviously it's different if people go in to the match with pre conceived notions just seeing what they want to see to confirm their bias and negativity isn't banned, it's just often fairly unhelpful. This last paragraph obviously isn't directed at you I'm just thinking out loud

 

[Bishop]

They aren’t good misses but they were actually also very good saves. Onana is a very good one on one keeper and he did a similar thing with solanke
One miss would be accepted but two highlights the issue
What I’ll add too though is son had 2 on one ones last week and missed them without the keeper making a save …

No. The first one he shot straight at Onana. The second one was a decent save but a good finisher buries it. Werner isn't a good finisher so he didn't.

It's annoying because he did all the good work to get himself in that position the first place, but his finishing is just poor. It's never going to change, he is what he is.

 

[glasgowspur]

That for me was our most complete 90 min performance under Ange, werner was a part of that, he did his share.
Can we not just leave it at that and enjoy the moment.

 

[Bishop]

That for me was our most complete 90 min performance under Ange, werner was a part of that, he did his share.
Can we not just leave it at that and enjoy the moment.

A good performance and a bad performance deserve the same degree of critique, otherwise when things don't work you don't have any frame of reference for what may have gone wrong.

Additionally no performance is perfect and so elements can always be improved upon. Striving for perfection is how you win, settling is how you go backwards.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No. The first one he shot straight at Onana. The second one was a decent save but a good finisher buries it. Werner isn't a good finisher so he didn't.

It's annoying because he did all the good work to get himself in that position the first place, but his finishing is just poor. It's never going to change, he is what he is.

So I checked
And the Xg for high the shots combined is 0.63
That’s lower than I thought it would be.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Fully agreed with both of you.

People will probably disagree with some of this, but I'd rather have a player that fits the system and mostly plays well within the system and struggles with end product rather than the opposite.

Shortages in end product, particularly missed chances, are much more visible or at least gets more attention. But not functioning well within the system causes so many problems.

Of course we want players who do more, do both, but for now Werner is a functional part as a squad player as we wait for Odobert, Moore, whoever ends up becoming that player.

The argument for his signing was that he was meant to be used as a backup, now people want him to start. Is Son the player he was 2-3 years ago? Absolutely not but he still gets 10-15 goals in a bad year. I’d even advocate for Moore getting the minutes Werner would be normally get if Son’s form nosedives. Don’t see the point of using Werner as a starter if he’s not a long term option.