Timo Werner

[Bedfordspurs]

Not a like for like but Javier ‘Chicarito’ Hernandez at Man U comes to mind. Not a great footballer but a brilliant finisher and a vital player for them at times.

But they’re scoring when playing CF
Your not comparing like for like in the main

If we signed Werner to play as a scorer id be worried. I don’t think we have at all

It’s May… may

There should be no negative reaction to us signing a player. The teletext reaction is fudging hilarious. The same people who moan we don’t do business early are now moaning we panicked and brought Werner (when it’s a loan) and have rewritten how he played

As I’ve said, repeatedly a wide player in Ange system has two roles.. with creativity being a huge one. Werner had that despite playing without a CF

He will now be playing with one in the games he does play I’m sure as it’s clear Ange see the need for us signing a 9. That makes a huge difference to anyone playing wide

He will still miss plenty but he will score some and create plenty when he is on the pitch. People will still moan as even when he beats his man he doesn’t do twists and turns

I’m not even a Werner fan but the negativity towards him I genuinely find odd.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You were talking about us closing the gap
In winder if they felt the stake when in the equivalent window under Arteta they signed players like Mari, Willian and Soares
Or did they trust the decisions…

Obviously not all of their signings have paid off. I think Bishop kind of nailed how I feel about the Werner signing. Just feels a bit underwhelming if that’s the only signing we’re making in the front line. If it’s in addition to a new striker then I won’t have many complaints depending on who the striker is.

 

[Jurgen the German]

No highlights in particular, it's just something noticed while watching him play for us I think I just want him to take his opponent on more than he does. There's a degree of smart play from him where he won't take a player on unless he's fairly certain he will beat them and thus not losing possesion of the ball but I just want more risk taking from him I suppose. I guess I believe in the chaos attack theory. The more you go at the opposition the more likely they are to break and make a mistake.

I know I come across as really anti Werner and I'm not really, I think he's a good player in reality and decent squad depth. I'm just really concerned that we are settling for what we think is good enough and that's just the antithesis of what I'm hoping we do going forward.

Agree with every word

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Obviously not all of their signings have paid off. I think Bishop kind of nailed how I feel about the Werner signing. Just feels a bit underwhelming if that’s the only signing we’re making in the front line. If it’s in addition to a new striker then I won’t have many complaints depending on who the striker is.

It’s May … May
The season hasn’t finished yet
And no matter who else we sign we will have a better squad depth than this season and a set way of playing
That has to be an improvement

And I’m sure it will be in addition to at least one, and likely two attackers

But remember it’s still May until tomorrow at least

 

[Jurgen the German]

But they’re scoring when playing CF
Your not comparing like for like in the main

If we signed Werner to play as a scorer id be worried. I don’t think we have at all

It’s May… may

There should be no negative reaction to us signing a player. The teletext reaction is fudging hilarious. The same people who moan we don’t do business early are now moaning we panicked and brought Werner (when it’s a loan) and have rewritten how he played

As I’ve said, repeatedly a wide player in Ange system has two roles.. with creativity being a huge one. Werner had that despite playing without a CF

He will now be playing with one in the games he does play I’m sure as it’s clear Ange see the need for us signing a 9. That makes a huge difference to anyone playing wide

He will still miss plenty but he will score some and create plenty when he is on the pitch. People will still moan as even when he beats his man he doesn’t do twists and turns

I’m not even a Werner fan but the negativity towards him I genuinely find odd.

Yeah I made a point of saying he wasn’t like for like with Trossard, just the comparison that they are both very good finishers.

My views on Werner are pretty much opposite to yours tbh. I’m genuinely a bit perplexed as to why people were and are so enamoured with him. I get he did well in the assists department but his finishing is still iffy and his overall play I’m just not that sold on.

I also agree with Bishop’s sentiments that he feels we’ve got used to settling, maybe because we’ve not been getting over the line in terms of silverware. When I heard we had signed him again I wasn’t annoyed or unhappy, I was just unenthusiastic. Ange’s comments after his injury didn’t seem like he was crying out for the club to make it permanent or to even re-loan him in.

 

[Jurgen the German]

It’s May … May
The season hasn’t finished yet
And no matter who else we sign we will have a better squad depth than this season and a set way of playing
That has to be an improvement

And I’m sure it will be in addition to at least one, and likely two attackers

But remember it’s still May until tomorrow at least

Yeah I’m aware it’s still May. And yes it is a case of seeing how it plays out but I also can’t pretend I’m over the moon we’ve signed him again. I agree it’s still early but do you want people to say it’s a great signing (even if it is still May) if they aren’t actually that pleased or impressed by the signing?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah I’m aware it’s still May. And yes it is a case of seeing how it plays out but I also can’t pretend I’m over the moon we’ve signed him again. I agree it’s still early but do you want people to say it’s a great signing (even if it is still May) if they aren’t actually that pleased or impressed by the signing?

I want people to be sensible for a start
Effectively being negative about a signing before they even kick a ball is nuts imo
Being even more negative because we have signed items players when we have now signed two since the last window is just odd for me
The club needs a squad. Ange needs a squad
The reason we didn’t keep up momentum last year was that we had a lack of depth. This is adding depth and a low cost
What’s there not to like?
He doesn’t finish like sonny… who does
But he beats his man as a good as any player and he pass off two feet. That’s an extremely good option to add
Pair that with a real CF and that could have huge benefits to the team. Imagine someone attacking the crosses in the box that we saw plenty of this season

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah I made a point of saying he wasn’t like for like with Trossard, just the comparison that they are both very good finishers.

My views on Werner are pretty much opposite to yours tbh. I’m genuinely a bit perplexed as to why people were and are so enamoured with him. I get he did well in the assists department but his finishing is still iffy and his overall play I’m just not that sold on.

I also agree with Bishop’s sentiments that he feels we’ve got used to settling, maybe because we’ve not been getting over the line in terms of silverware. When I heard we had signed him again I wasn’t annoyed or unhappy, I was just unenthusiastic. Ange’s comments after his injury didn’t seem like he was crying out for the club to make it permanent or to even re-loan him in.

His finishing is awful
But that’s why he ain’t okaying as a striker
Sonny is an elite finisher and he can’t play as a striker
It’s a very different role
If we were signing him to play striker I’d be really worried. I’m 100% sure that’s not the case
He is there to rotate with Sonny done the left
His overall play IMO was exactly what Ange wanted by the way. Stay wide, beat your man and run, run, run. We had massive issues in the team not passing to him and also sonny when they made those runs
And anges comments and reaction were imo jus5 his style. He hasn’t been brash or enthusiastic about anyone let alone a guy they maybe hadn’t made their mind up on
It’s possible the decision was made that by signing Werner on loan it meant we could invest more elsewhere where it is a priority… that’s just a possibility of course
So this was an easy deal to do and added to Bergvall we have replaced gil and Solomon and maybe lo Celso for again, not much outlay. Potentially we will make money like for like and be better

 

[Bishop]

His finishing is awful
But that’s why he ain’t okaying as a striker
Sonny is an elite finisher and he can’t play as a striker
It’s a very different role
If we were signing him to play striker I’d be really worried. I’m 100% sure that’s not the case
He is there to rotate with Sonny done the left
His overall play IMO was exactly what Ange wanted by the way. Stay wide, beat your man and run, run, run. We had massive issues in the team not passing to him and also sonny when they made those runs
And anges comments and reaction were imo jus5 his style. He hasn’t been brash or enthusiastic about anyone let alone a guy they maybe hadn’t made their mind up on
It’s possible the decision was made that by signing Werner on loan it meant we could invest more elsewhere where it is a priority… that’s just a possibility of course
So this was an easy deal to do and added to Bergvall we have replaced gil and Solomon and maybe lo Celso for again, not much outlay. Potentially we will make money like for like and be better

Part of the lack enthusiasm for me is I see a Son who looks a little past it for me on the wing and then Werner is the alternative. It's all a bit...middling imo. I think we need a quality starter on the wing, both wings if I'm honest I'm not impressed by what we have on either side.

Maybe if Son proves me wrong and gets the form of 2 seasons ago back then sure, but it does feel for me like everyone is ignoring the form of Son on the wing. There seems to be this expectation that Son is going to perform like it's 2019 again and sadly I think that time for him has gone. He's not been that player of old and especially not under Ange. So I my view on Werner is coloured by the thought of consistently starting with either a diminished Son or Werner, neither which look like ideal options for me.

I'm not really into the whole happy clappy uber positive best case scenario thinking. I like to keep it grounded and realistic, so yes I'm am going to question some signings when there are elements that concern me.

 

[harr1984]

Part of the lack enthusiasm for me is I see a Son who looks a little past it for me on the wing and then Werner is the alternative. It's all a bit...middling imo. I think we need a quality starter on the wing, both wings if I'm honest I'm not impressed by what we have on either side.

Maybe if Son proves me wrong and gets the form of 2 seasons ago back then sure, but it does feel for me like everyone is ignoring the form of Son on the wing. There seems to be this expectation that Son is going to perform like it's 2019 again and sadly I think that time for him has gone. He's not been that player of old and especially not under Ange. So I my view on Werner is coloured by the thought of consistently starting with either a diminished Son or Werner, neither which look like ideal options for me.

I'm not really into the whole happy clappy uber positive best case scenario thinking. I like to keep it grounded and realistic, so yes I'm am going to question some signings when there are elements that concern me.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees Son as not the LWF as many on here are naming him as the guy for that position. He started the season there and was poor, only started scoring when he was subsequently moved to CF. He doesn't have the burst of pace anymore, and doesnt have the skill to beat his man one on one. He can still at times come inside and shift the ball to get a shot off, but under Ange he wants his wingers to stay wide. It hasn't really worked in that position and he's not getting any younger. I just don't see where Son fits in the front 3 if we are talking about improving there. But he is captain so is bound to be selected which concerns me a little....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees Son as not the LWF as many on here are naming him as the guy for that position. He started the season there and was poor, only started scoring when he was subsequently moved to CF. He doesn't have the burst of pace anymore, and doesnt have the skill to beat his man one on one. He can still at times come inside and shift the ball to get a shot off, but under Ange he wants his wingers to stay wide. It hasn't really worked in that position and he's not getting any younger. I just don't see where Son fits in the front 3 if we are talking about improving there. But he is captain so is bound to be selected which concerns me a little....

I’ve said many time sons an issue
He can’t play as a CF and some of his games wide have been woeful
But… I’m convinced he had an injury post Asian games
And early season he maybe struggled wide because we kept the ball
The guys never really excelled in a team that’s dominant with the ball
But there were some high moments with him wide in the last couple of games
Guess we will see soon

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Part of the lack enthusiasm for me is I see a Son who looks a little past it for me on the wing and then Werner is the alternative. It's all a bit...middling imo. I think we need a quality starter on the wing, both wings if I'm honest I'm not impressed by what we have on either side.

Maybe if Son proves me wrong and gets the form of 2 seasons ago back then sure, but it does feel for me like everyone is ignoring the form of Son on the wing. There seems to be this expectation that Son is going to perform like it's 2019 again and sadly I think that time for him has gone. He's not been that player of old and especially not under Ange. So I my view on Werner is coloured by the thought of consistently starting with either a diminished Son or Werner, neither which look like ideal options for me.

I'm not really into the whole happy clappy uber positive best case scenario thinking. I like to keep it grounded and realistic, so yes I'm am going to question some signings when there are elements that concern me.

Not sure what you think the best case scenario is to make someone happy clappy?
But son isn’t going anywhere and we saw how poor he was last season at CF against low blocks. So he is the IMO Anges starting left wing
I do think the wide players will look better with a genuine CF to hit
They can’t look worse and I don’t think they looked poor
The issue was it wasn’t clicking at times but we had son CF don’t forget

 

[Jurgen the German]

I want people to be sensible for a start
Effectively being negative about a signing before they even kick a ball is nuts imo
Being even more negative because we have signed items players when we have now signed two since the last window is just odd for me
The club needs a squad. Ange needs a squad
The reason we didn’t keep up momentum last year was that we had a lack of depth. This is adding depth and a low cost
What’s there not to like?
He doesn’t finish like sonny… who does
But he beats his man as a good as any player and he pass off two feet. That’s an extremely good option to add
Pair that with a real CF and that could have huge benefits to the team. Imagine someone attacking the crosses in the box that we saw plenty of this season

I’m reacting honestly to a signing. If you want me to say he’s a great signing I can say that but I wouldn’t mean it. I get that all signings can’t be in the £50-£100m bracket and sometimes we need to be clever and think outside the box to beat our rivals in terms of transfers, I just think there’s got to be better out there than Werner. He did ok when he was here but nothing more than that IMO.

 

[glasgowspur]

Son is definitely on the decline, at his age that's to be expected.
It's not helped by us and SK flogging him to death by playing every possible minute.
As a sub on 65-70 mins for so werner is ideal, he's quick, skillful, a team player, experienced and suits the system.
Son knowing he isn't going to be playing as many minutes might help raise his spirits and his game, and the rest could do him wonders.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I’m reacting honestly to a signing. If you want me to say he’s a great signing I can say that but I wouldn’t mean it. I get that all signings can’t be in the £50-£100m bracket and sometimes we need to be clever and think outside the box to beat our rivals in terms of transfers, I just think there’s got to be better out there than Werner. He did ok when he was here but nothing more than that IMO.

But
This is me being optimistic
He can be more effective playing with a striker
As I said before he was hitting no one
And you have to back the plan
The club has a youth player they hold in high regard, arguably to a level better than maybe what we could sign (I don’t know). The club having a plan is maybe the club thinking outside the box. Planning for Moore to come through may be part of that

 

[Jurgen the German]

But
This is me being optimistic
He can be more effective playing with a striker
As I said before he was hitting no one
And you have to back the plan
The club has a youth player they hold in high regard, arguably to a level better than maybe what we could sign (I don’t know). The club having a plan is maybe the club thinking outside the box. Planning for Moore to come through may be part of that

That’s fine to be optimistic, I don’t quite understand the optimism for this particular signing but I wouldn’t say don’t be optimistic about it. I’m not sure Werner at his age is going to be happy about being a squad player.

 

[harr1984]

That’s fine to be optimistic, I don’t quite understand the optimism for this particular signing but I wouldn’t say don’t be optimistic about it. I’m not sure Werner at his age is going to be happy about being a squad player.

The reason I like this signing is because he's playing for Ange, I'd be less excited if it was for Conte/Mourinho. The reason being under Ange everyone from the defenders upwards are in attacking positions so there isn't the same reliance on the forwards to be the one scoring the goals. Under Jose etc it's very much about Son and Kane, but you can see with the way the goals are spread out under Ange it's not the same.

Of course we would love this goal machine and creator of a winger, but Werner constantly creates chances and is a genuine threat which is valuable under Ange as there will be various players potentially on the end of his created chances. That along with the fact he will score 10-15 goals a season means he will be a valuable asset. But I also agree a real upgrade in the forward line will be a necessity....

 

[DubSpur]

That’s fine to be optimistic, I don’t quite understand the optimism for this particular signing but I wouldn’t say don’t be optimistic about it. I’m not sure Werner at his age is going to be happy about being a squad player.

You're looking at this signing in isolation and not as part of the bigger picture. If at the end of the transfer window there hasn't been any other signings to strenghten the areas that we are weak in then by all means throw the toys out of the pram, but until we can see the overall window it's a bit early to be moaning about a loan signing that is most likely for squad depth.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That’s fine to be optimistic, I don’t quite understand the optimism for this particular signing but I wouldn’t say don’t be optimistic about it. I’m not sure Werner at his age is going to be happy about being a squad player.

He surely doesn’t think he is going to usurp son though
And he knows he is joining a bigger club
Your almost talking as though he has guarantees which makes no sense
Unless we’re selling son which ain’t happening
It’s capable experience at a good price
It’s also why I like the idea of Toney
We know what we will get and in 2/; years time when he older we waive him with a player we have developed

 

[Jurgen the German]

You're looking at this signing in isolation and not as part of the bigger picture. If at the end of the transfer window there hasn't been any other signings to strenghten the areas that we are weak in then by all means throw the toys out of the pram, but until we can see the overall window it's a bit early to be moaning about a loan signing that is most likely for squad depth.

Granted but I can only judge on the business we have done so far. It’s not about throwing toys out the pram, I’m not angry or even unhappy I’m just underwhelmed.