Timo Werner

[DubSpur]

If you're happy with just challenging for the top4 positions then Werner is fine, but don't complain about not achieving more than that if he's the plan for the go to starter on the left.

He's fine as a option but I'll say it again and again, he is not of the standard that this eam needs if (and it's seems to be a big if clearly for many of fans) we seriously want to progress and challenge in the short term.

The funny thing is I'm actually fine building slowly but I just find the Jeckle and Hyde nature of this fan base frustrating because it feels like the same people who will happily accept Werner despite the obvious faults will be the same people arguing that Ange hasn't done well enough when next season is another battle for a top 4 position.

I don't want to see any complaints about not winning the league when we are signing the likes of Werner and have a front line of Richie and Johnson.

Ps. All assuming we do not get another option on the left for Werner and better forward options than what we have now.

I don't think anyone is expecting a title challenge or seen anyone complaining that we haven't won it it recent years. I suspect most would be very happy with top 4 and any sort of trophy.
Another couple of years building (including younger players developing) and Pep finally fecking off and then maybe we can think about challenging for the title.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Royal is allegedly in italy talking to milan and juve. With byern also interested.

So could be 18.

Ffs levy we need to buy players as we'll be well short.

Lol.

I already had Royale in the list of leavers mate…. Anyway I think we’re both in agreement that most of our players will have suitors for the right price (which of course can be zero, or even a negative number, in some cases.

 

[Lilbaz]

I already had Royale in the list of leavers mate…. Anyway I think we’re both in agreement that most of our players will have suitors for the right price (which of course can be zero, or even a negative number, in some cases.

How many international loans are we allowed this year? Is it 7 or has it dropped to 6?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If you're happy with just challenging for the top4 positions then Werner is fine, but don't complain about not achieving more than that if he's the plan for the go to starter on the left.

He's fine as a option but I'll say it again and again, he is not of the standard that this eam needs if (and it's seems to be a big if clearly for many of fans) we seriously want to progress and challenge in the short term.

The funny thing is I'm actually fine building slowly but I just find the Jeckle and Hyde nature of this fan base frustrating because it feels like the same people who will happily accept Werner despite the obvious faults will be the same people arguing that Ange hasn't done well enough when next season is another battle for a top 4 position.

I don't want to see any complaints about not winning the league when we are signing the likes of Werner and have a front line of Richie and Johnson.

Ps. All assuming we do not get another option on the left for Werner and better forward options than what we have now.

We will get in a striker and the DM for sure IMO. That’s the two biggest weaknesses in the squad.. unless Ange has some magic plan for Lankshear to step up that is

But we should also look at these youngsters and create a plan now for bringing them through

If it mean short term signings for a year or so it may mean better long term.

Werner is a squad signing which is a huge upgrade on an option like Gil

We as a club have to build the squad IMO before we build the final product. It’s the foundations that all clubs go through. Klopp first trophy winning side had one player that he inherited

Artetas is the reverse because of circumstances

Pep has changed and changed again his first 11

But it’s all from a basis of quantity with quality. Right now we don’t have enough quantity with the basic qualities.

We have one CF and youngsters
We will have one DM in Bissouma plus Skipp who never gets played there (assuming Hojberg leaves)

That’s huge issues that have to be tackled because the numbers don’t stack up

Then we lack cover at full back which again was An issue this season. It possible moving VDV or Radu may fix that but that’s weakening the team to fix an issue

I think we will also get a new wide forward for the right to challenge Johnson.

That’s how I see things developing but of course we may not sign players in that order

 

[Finney Is Back]

Good summary, cheers.

Most of those players you (imo rightly) suggest will leave aren't players that will leave depending on who we can or do bring in. Vast majority of them will be leaving no matter what.

We also have others that could be sold.

Indeed, it is actually very rare for a player to stay at a club when they are told they won’t be getting a place in the squad. Winston Bogarde situations are extremely rare in football. A vast majority of footballers want to play and, as long as their overall remuneration is not too impacted, will generally always move to do so.

 

[Gutter Boy]

You do like to try to exaggerate a bit mate.

Our senior players are:
Vicario, Forster, Porro, Royale, Spence, Rodon, Romero, VDV, Dragusin, Davies, Udogie, Sessegnon, Skipp, Hojbjerg, Bissouma, Bentancur, Sarr, Maddison, Johnson, Kulusevski, Werner, Solomon, Gill, Lo Celso, Son, Richarlison, Regulion, Ndombele, Tanganga.

That is 29 players. Of those….

The club have confirmed that Sessegnon will not be having his contract extended - so that’s 28
Spence has an £8.5m option fee and has done well at Genoa, so very likely that gets exercised. If not he’ll have lots of other suitors at that price, leaving 27
Tanganga has done well at Milwall and will get a move there or, if not, to another Championship or lower Pl team = 26
Rodon had a very good season at Leeds and will have a lot of suitors at a minimum of around £10m = 25
Hojbjerg had a good season but wants a move to play more football, we’ll have no problem selling him = 24
Royale has interest from a number of clubs, there will be no problem selling him for a reasonable price = 23

So it is only really Ndombele, Lo Celso and Gill and (perhaps) Regulion that are likely to be a problem. Of those:

Regulion did well enough on loan at Man Utd and then Brentford to at least get a loan move next season = 22
Lo Celso’s injury record and high wage may make him difficult to sell but there is probably a Spanish club who will take him on loan as long as we’re not looking for much of a loan fee = 21

Ndombele and Gill unfortunately I think we might be properly stuck with….
For Gill, the best we can probably hope for is a loan to Spain where we pay a portion of his wages.
Ndombele I think we’ll either have to give him an VERY subsidised loan or do a deal to terminate his contract.
Either way I don’t see either of those two players getting a squad place next season.

There's a few others - Austin, Whiteman, Parrot. All overage now, so have to named in the 25 or can't play. And we'd definitely need a 3rd GK in the squad.

The problem is we can't ever shift the names you've trotted out. No one can afford the fees and the players won't take the salary drop to move to lower club. So at best we loan them, paying most of their wages, and they boomerang back 12 months later.

If we release/pay off contracts/accept nominal fees for Sess, Tanganga, Regullion, Spence, Rodon, Lo Celso, Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Gil, Soloman etc. in the next month I'll change my tune. But until we actively deal with those problems, we are a bit stuck.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There's a few others - Austin, Whiteman, Parrot. All overage now, so have to named in the 25 or can't play. And we'd definitely need a 3rd GK in the squad.

The problem is we can't ever shift the names you've trotted out. No one can afford the fees and the players won't take the salary drop to move to lower club. So at best we loan them, paying most of their wages, and they boomerang back 12 months later.

If we release/pay off contracts/accept nominal fees for Sess, Tanganga, Regullion, Spence, Rodon, Lo Celso, Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Gil, Soloman etc. in the next month I'll change my tune. But until we actively deal with those problems, we are a bit stuck.

We just extended the contract of Austin didn’t we? That’s the short term third choice along with the short term second choice

 

[Finney Is Back]

There's a few others - Austin, Whiteman, Parrot. All overage now, so have to named in the 25 or can't play. And we'd definitely need a 3rd GK in the squad.

The problem is we can't ever shift the names you've trotted out. No one can afford the fees and the players won't take the salary drop to move to lower club. So at best we loan them, paying most of their wages, and they boomerang back 12 months later.

If we release/pay off contracts/accept nominal fees for Sess, Tanganga, Regullion, Spence, Rodon, Lo Celso, Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Gil, Soloman etc. in the next month I'll change my tune. But until we actively deal with those problems, we are a bit stuck.

None are ‘senior’ players. All earning a relative pittance and can simply be paid up and released if necessary. Parrot has also had a very good loan and has suitors in The Netherlands and Germany.

Sess is out of contract so not an issue.
Tanganga and Rodon won’t be on big money and having both had very good seasons in the Championship will have suitors that can offer them similar money and offer Spurs a fee.
Spence will have suitors (I expect Genoa will take up their option on him).
Hojbjerg will have suitors who will pay him a similar amount (especially in Italy with their advantageous income tax rules) and pay us a fee.

I already mentioned Lo Celso, Gil, Ndombele and Regulion as the ones likely to present the biggest problem, but even there I expect Regulion and Lo Celso to have some options. Worst case scenario is see is having to pay Gill and Ndombele wages to not have a squad place and sit around doing nothing other than training with the under 21s

 

[braineclipse]

If you're happy with just challenging for the top4 positions then Werner is fine, but don't complain about not achieving more than that if he's the plan for the go to starter on the left.

He's fine as a option but I'll say it again and again, he is not of the standard that this eam needs if (and it's seems to be a big if clearly for many of fans) we seriously want to progress and challenge in the short term.

The funny thing is I'm actually fine building slowly but I just find the Jeckle and Hyde nature of this fan base frustrating because it feels like the same people who will happily accept Werner despite the obvious faults will be the same people arguing that Ange hasn't done well enough when next season is another battle for a top 4 position.

I don't want to see any complaints about not winning the league when we are signing the likes of Werner and have a front line of Richie and Johnson.

Ps. All assuming we do not get another option on the left for Werner and better forward options than what we have now.

I've said repeatedly and pretty much also said in the post you quoted that I don't think he's a go to starter. Even without any more signings he probably wouldn't be a go to starter. And I think we'll make at least one, perhaps two, more signings in the front line.

And getting Werner in relatively cheaply as an option should mean we have more money to spend on others.

 

[braineclipse]

None are ‘senior’ players. All earning a relative pittance and can simply be paid up and released if necessary. Parrot has also had a very good loan and has suitors in The Netherlands and Germany.

Sess is out of contract so not an issue.
Tanganga and Rodon won’t be on big money and having both had very good seasons in the Championship will have suitors that can offer them similar money and offer Spurs a fee.
Spence will have suitors (I expect Genoa will take up their option on him).
Hojbjerg will have suitors who will pay him a similar amount (especially in Italy with their advantageous income tax rules) and pay us a fee.

I already mentioned Lo Celso, Gil, Ndombele and Regulion as the ones likely to present the biggest problem, but even there I expect Regulion and Lo Celso to have some options. Worst case scenario is see is having to pay Gill and Ndombele wages to not have a squad place and sit around doing nothing other than training with the under 21s

Lo Celso and Ndombele are the bigger earners of those I think and will be resolved one way or the other this summer. Reguilon has one year left too I think. Gil will have suitors it's more an issue of agreeing a fee or thinking a loan is better for us.

Been some long lasting repeat sagas with these players, but most of those will come to an end this summer.

 

[braineclipse]

There's a few others - Austin, Whiteman, Parrot. All overage now, so have to named in the 25 or can't play. And we'd definitely need a 3rd GK in the squad.

The problem is we can't ever shift the names you've trotted out. No one can afford the fees and the players won't take the salary drop to move to lower club. So at best we loan them, paying most of their wages, and they boomerang back 12 months later.

If we release/pay off contracts/accept nominal fees for Sess, Tanganga, Regullion, Spence, Rodon, Lo Celso, Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Gil, Soloman etc. in the next month I'll change my tune. But until we actively deal with those problems, we are a bit stuck.

We're not really stuck. Get a sale through, release and pay off or loan out depending on the circumstances.

It shouldn't stop us from making the incoming business Ange/Lange/the transfer team wants.

You just don't like Werner that much. Ange obviously does. It doesn't really have much to do with who we have to sell. And getting Werner on a loan instead of on a permanent deal with high wages may prevent some of these issues in the future.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I've said repeatedly and pretty much also said in the post you quoted that I don't think he's a go to starter. Even without any more signings he probably wouldn't be a go to starter. And I think we'll make at least one, perhaps two, more signings in the front line.

And getting Werner in relatively cheaply as an option should mean we have more money to spend on others.

More money for bigger priorities whilst seeing how our own talent develops
That’s bloody smart if it comes it fruition
The issue is we have many fans who think we’re gonna operate as previous and not buy… which we also know isn’t true
But we’re bro exactly flush with cash to spend and have a big transfer debt to manage
too

 

[braineclipse]

More money for bigger priorities whilst seeing how our own talent develops
That’s bloody smart if it comes it fruition
The issue is we have many fans who think we’re gonna operate as previous and not buy… which we also know isn’t true
But we’re bro exactly flush with cash to spend and have a big transfer debt to manage
too

Agreed. Let's at least see how the plan for this window unfolds before we start venting our frustration.

 

[Bishop]

Agreed. Let's at least see how the plan for this window unfolds before we start venting our frustration.

I thought my post was clear, I'm not frustrated or even venting. I just don't think Werner is of the level required for a starter. If we sign someone in addition then I have no complaints.. I just don't want to see people complaint about what we don't achieve while at the same time lauding signings such as this one.

 

[Chrissivad]

Could have Son as a starter down the left with Werner as back up.
New striker or Richalison up top and Johnson and Kulusevski on the right.

Then just replace when we sell players

 

[braineclipse]

I thought my post was clear, I'm not frustrated or even venting. I just don't think Werner is of the level required for a starter. If we sign someone in addition then I have no complaints.. I just don't want to see people complaint about what we don't achieve while at the same time lauding signings such as this one.

That wasn't aimed at you. I didn't quote you or anything...

Again. Right now. Even with no more signings, with everyone fit I think the front three is Son, Richarlison and Johnson/Kulusevski.

The only way he ends up as a starter is with injuries or if he plays really well.

Again, let's just see how the window pans out. And fans will have inconsistent opinions, that's just fotball.

 

[braineclipse]

Could have Son as a starter down the left with Werner as back up.
New striker or Richalison up top and Johnson and Kulusevski on the right.

Then just replace when we sell players

Think there's room for one more new player in addition to that. Someone that can play on both wings or wide and as a 10. Ideally that would be my hope at least.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Think there's room for one more new player in addition to that. Someone that can play on both wings or wide and as a 10. Ideally that would be my hope at least.

I don't think there's any chance of that. The 7th forward will/should probably be taken by someone like Donnely or Moore (maybe half a season each, with a loan in the opposite).

 

[Chrissivad]

I don't think there's any chance of that. The 7th forward will/should probably be taken by someone like Donnely or Moore (maybe half a season each, with a loan in the opposite).

Was just about to say the same. Santiago as well.

 

[Gutter Boy]

We're not really stuck. Get a sale through, release and pay off or loan out depending on the circumstances.

It shouldn't stop us from making the incoming business Ange/Lange/the transfer team wants.

You just don't like Werner that much. Ange obviously does. It doesn't really have much to do with who we have to sell. And getting Werner on a loan instead of on a permanent deal with high wages may prevent some of these issues in the future.

I don't actually mind Werner. He's a functional option there, same as Dempsey and Chadli were in that role in years before Son.

I think my concern is that with Son's age, we need to be finding and starting to bring through a long term successor this season. But now we've delayed that process for a year.