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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?


  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It is kind of odd what strong emotions Sherwood has brought out in people. I can ask you because you are not one of them but why do you think it is?

Clearly people are projecting part of their own personalities onto the manager but I am now wondering about the psychological make up of some members of this board.

i don't think it's odd at all - we've put in charge a man with zero prior experience to a job which is arguably the most difficult in the league. in charge of the club we all love and want to see succeed and all we have to go on at this point is pure blind faith, he may or may not become a great manager and he may or may not be doing a good job - but you cannot escape the fact that it is a big ask to put faith in someone with no experience. i fully understand why people are emotional on the subject of Sherwood - although personally i don't see the need to get worked up about it at this point as it's quite likely he won't be in charge next season.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

What makes you think this? Tactically he looks woefully inept. Is he really going to get us competing with the top teams in England? The evidence so far is that he will not imo

It's certainly a point to debate and discuss, and I can see where you're coming from because I've been there many times with him. But he shows some signs of learning; the subbing of Dembele at HT for Sigurdsson, the realization that Eriksen and Soldado must play together, the implementation of Bentaleb, the identification of Kaboul as a skipper for now (rouser, presence), his accommodation of Chadli…don't get me wrong, he still get it all wrong sometimes (goons at home) but I get the feeling he could produce a very decent side if he had the time/more experience. That he is learning here, right now, I don't think it will happen unless he gets three years without pressure. But that's like winning the lottery in modern football, especially at this club!!!

The real gamble would be if he were given money to spend. He did the right thing in January, took no-one on and is assessing the squad. He would know what he needs and who he wants right now.

The ticket for us would be to pair him off with a world class manager and allow Sherwood to learn more. I don't especially like what I know of him, that's for sure, but I do think he has some big potential.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i don't think it's odd at all - we've put in charge a man with zero prior experience to a job which is arguably the most difficult in the league. in charge of the club we all love and want to see succeed and all we have to go on at this point is pure blind faith, he may or may not become a great manager and he may or may not be doing a good job - but you cannot escape the fact that it is a big ask to put faith in someone with no experience. i fully understand why people are emotional on the subject of Sherwood - although personally i don't see the need to get worked up about it at this point as it's quite likely he won't be in charge next season.

Sherwood's inexperience does not explain the vitriol on here towards him from some posters- well 2 in particular. AVB was hardly an experienced coach and after his failure at Chelsea some posters, including myself, could not see why we had appointed him. But we were never vitriolic referring to him as "YTS" or the like. Speaking for myself, despite my doubts I gave AVB the benefit of the doubt until the City game after which I had seen enough.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Sherwood's inexperience does not explain the vitriol on here towards him from some posters- well 2 in particular. AVB was hardly an experienced coach and after his failure at Chelsea some posters, including myself, could not see why we had appointed him. But we were never vitriolic referring to him as "YTS" or the like. Speaking for myself, despite my doubts I gave AVB the benefit of the doubt until the City game after which I had seen enough.

people have their reasons for not liking Sherwood on a personal level i guess - it seemed to pass me by at the time but he didn't seem to cover himself in glory the way he spoke about Hoddle and other things with regards to the club/people in charge - i don't think Scara and GB have all of a sudden decided to take a disliking to the man - pretty sure they've held these opinions for a long time (if that's who you're referring too). i generally try to stay out of Sherwood related stuff as i think it's been a farcical 'discussion' from day one.

without delving too deep on AVB as i can't really remember enough to put names to quotes but i definitely recall there being a fair share of vitriol aimed at him. as with Redknapp before him and probably every other manager we've had at one point or another.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's certainly a point to debate and discuss, and I can see where you're coming from because I've been there many times with him. But he shows some signs of learning; the subbing of Dembele at HT for Sigurdsson, the realization that Eriksen and Soldado must play together, the implementation of Bentaleb, the identification of Kaboul as a skipper for now (rouser, presence), his accommodation of Chadli…don't get me wrong, he still get it all wrong sometimes (goons at home) but I get the feeling he could produce a very decent side if he had the time/more experience. That he is learning here, right now, I don't think it will happen unless he gets three years without pressure. But that's like winning the lottery in modern football, especially at this club!!!

The real gamble would be if he were given money to spend. He did the right thing in January, took no-one on and is assessing the squad. He would know what he needs and who he wants right now.

The ticket for us would be to pair him off with a world class manager and allow Sherwood to learn more. I don't especially like what I know of him, that's for sure, but I do think he has some big potential.

Steff, I thought we were pretty good against the goons after that momentary Lapse that led to the 1st goal. I don't think he needs a world class manager above him, he clearly won't accept that, but rather a very good coaching team. I remember reading that Dagliesh whilst at Blackburn took very little of the coaching as he left most of it to Mick Harford. Equally Redknapp always surrounded himself with a large coaching entourage. Would be interesting to hear your opinions on Chris Ramsay
 
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Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Simply not true. For the first 30 minutes we were shown up down to playing a high line (a tactic I can understand against Southampton) but (yet again) not pressing in midfield. As with against Arsenal, once we sorted that we looked much better. Controlled the game in the 2nd half. I don't think Southampton had a shot on target. We had more possession than them, more touches in their final third and completed more passes than 'possession specialists' Southampton.


Rose was horrific going forward, like terrible, but defensively sound enough, he didn't look like he was struggling and it wasn't as if anyone was gliding past him at every opportunity.

Naughton made two horrific errors that an amateur footballer would have been ashamed of let alone a pro, but other than that he had a fairly average game for a player who isn't really good enough for a top 6 side.

Kaboul and Verts were doing a decent enough job on Lambert who is one of their biggest threats so I why move either of them to full-bacl.

So all in all, when you take a reasoned and objective look on his decision to leave the back four as it was, it doesn't look that a particularly bad decision. I don't think Southampton had a shot on target in the 2nd half.



It didn't. But then again Lennon was doing absolutely nothing so he had to do something, when he'd already made the Siggy sub, replacing like for like made sense.

Again, a reasoned and objective look.



He started with one today (Dembele) he's also played Bentaleb in pretty much every game so far (another one). He had the sense today to see that Dembele wasn't at the races and made a change. The reason why the change was successful had nothing to do with Siggy being a ball playing midfielder. It was to do with the fact he actually looked up for it and performed once he came on. I'm not going to say that was down to Sherwood's 'motivational ability' or any balls like that, because in all likely-hood it's down to the player. But Sherwood has to be given credit for bringing someone on who scored the winning goal for us. It's happened, it's a fact. He made the decision and therefore he has to get credit for it.



Individual errors like those today (player's misjudging the flight of a ball, ballsing up clearances etc) are out of his control. Completely and utterly, I'm sorry, but I like many other people have played football to a semi decent level. Even at that level had I made the mistakes Naughton made today I would be considering hangning my boots up, no-matter what coaching I had or hadn't received. Individual errors where people don't track runners or we set up from a corner in completely the wrong fashion I can see how people can put the blame on TS, but errors like today, Verts and Walker in the Chelsea game. No way.

Of course the games he has won have been down to a player or two playing their asses off. That's how football games are won. Whether that's down to him or not we don't know. All I know is that today he let Eriksen run free. He literally popped up all over the place and he seemed to enjoy it.

Again, a reasoned and objective look at things.

A 90th minute shot from outside which came from a player that wouldn't have been on the pitch had TS not decided to put him there. It happened, so he won't be shown the door.

He's not SAF, he's not Mourinho, he's probably not even Harry Redknapp. But, when you take an objective and reasoned look at things, he's doing a decent (note, not fantastic) job.

Disagree, and just because you don't have the same opinion as me does not mean you are the objective and reasoned one

- Southampton had better shape, the pass was always on for their players, they absolutely looked the better side
- So two awful FBs playing, you have a CB option that would allow one of the poor players to be replaced, you do nothing, but that's good coaching?
- Townsend hasn't worked recently, offers less than Lennon, but I guess in your words, might as well try something, again good coaching
- Dembele is a ball playing midfielder? dear Christ, no wonder we are disagreeing
- Misjudging the flight of the ball maybe, not even understanding the defensive line and who you have played onside/offside is ****ing coaching mate
- He will be shown the door, maybe not Monday, but in 7 or so weeks

W, D, L, L, L is a decent job? (our last 5 games)

I'm going to just call him Teflon Tim from now on, for certain people it seems he can do nothing wrong and we should get rid of a dozen players because its obviously their fault, nothing to do with TS.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i don't think it's odd at all - we've put in charge a man with zero prior experience to a job which is arguably the most difficult in the league. in charge of the club we all love and want to see succeed and all we have to go on at this point is pure blind faith, he may or may not become a great manager and he may or may not be doing a good job - but you cannot escape the fact that it is a big ask to put faith in someone with no experience. i fully understand why people are emotional on the subject of Sherwood - although personally i don't see the need to get worked up about it at this point as it's quite likely he won't be in charge next season.

Well explained ..

And if people think TS gets stick, they obviously haven't been on this board very long

- AVB got stick, even when we were winning
- Redknapp got the most stick I've ever seen, even when we were playing great football to watch, some people couldn't get past their personal dislike of him and his assumed character flaws. (comments about his face/twitch and a bunch of **** that personally I thought was wildly out of order happened regularly).

Most of the people I think (including me) question TS on basis of his suitability for job, and the crap he has very good player playing.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Steff, I thought we were pretty good against the goons after that momentary Lapse that led to the 1st goal. I don't think he needs a world class manager above him, he clearly won't accept that, but rather a very good coaching team. I remember reading that Dagliesh whilst at Blackburn took very little of the coaching as he left most of it to Mick Harford. Equally Redknapp always surrounded himself with a large coaching entourage. Would be interesting to hear your opinions on Chris Ramsay

My main problem with the Goons was the starting line-up, which square-pegged round holes for which we had round pegs! For me, if you're going to play Eriksen, Townsend and Chadli, it makes sense to play

Townsend on the left, Eriksen in the hole, Chadli on the right…or play Ade on the left off Soldado and allow him and Eriksen to switch off with each other on that left-side/drift into dangerous areas. Eriksen needs the license…

Back to my original thought, Townsend-Eriksen-Chadli, it at least give proper balance and some strength/presence on the left when Rose inevitably gets caught out (Townsend is faster on the cover - if he gets on it in the first place!)…

Yes, I made remark somewhere before that Sherwood's growth would rely on the SAF method, which was to find an outstanding coach to work as his right-hand man. Cannot remember which thread, but I'd said I don't know enough about Ramsey at this level to comment. I personally feel Sherwood could do with his own version of a Queiroz if he were to stay and grow. But when you take that path, it's important to work with people who are technically superior and who will not be afraid of you.

Back to the goons one more time. Eriksen and Soldado have a relationship. They've had it for some time. I think it's folly not to have played them together more often and shows a certain lack of imagination (Liverpool find a way to play Suarez and Sturridge as well as Sterling) so it can be done. And we could do it. Soldado was excellent today, grew and grew in confidence and if the passes to him had been a bit better, he'd have ben onto a brace himself. But it's happening. The key is for Sherwood to now roll with this growth and let it, err, grow ore as the season goes IMO.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well explained ..

And if people think TS gets stick, they obviously haven't been on this board very long

- AVB got stick, even when we were winning
- Redknapp got the most stick I've ever seen, even when we were playing great football to watch, some people couldn't get past their personal dislike of him and his assumed character flaws. (comments about his face/twitch and a bunch of **** that personally I thought was wildly out of order happened regularly).

Most of the people I think (including me) question TS on basis of his suitability for job, and the crap he has very good player playing.

One thing we may never see, is his handling of Lamela. I think that Lamela/Soldado/Eriksen are a trio who could prove intrinsic to our future in terms of their promise, verve and intentions as players. How would he accommodate them though? That is the question...
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well explained ..

And if people think TS gets stick, they obviously haven't been on this board very long

- AVB got stick, even when we were winning
- Redknapp got the most stick I've ever seen, even when we were playing great football to watch, some people couldn't get past their personal dislike of him and his assumed character flaws. (comments about his face/twitch and a bunch of **** that personally I thought was wildly out of order happened regularly).

Most of the people I think (including me) question TS on basis of his suitability for job, and the crap he has very good player playing.

Can't agree with you with regard to criticism aimed at Sherwood. Absolutely right to criticise him, hold him to account etc. But some of the **** aimed at him has got personal on a level I have never seen before even under Harry.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I watched the match in my local today and this game for me proved that there is little tactically/coaching-wise that TS is inputting into this team, for the following reasons:

1) Again we start a game sluggishly; please don't tell me it's because of Europe now - this has been happening when we've also had 7 to 10 days rest and time on the training pitch (in fact we often start even worse the more time we've had between matches!). We seem to come into a match with no actual gameplan, hence the opposition impose theirs and we look so poor at the start.

2) The individual mistakes are happening much more now because of a lack of strategy in terms of movement, positioning etc imo. EVERYTHING we do is reactive and panic sets in with the most minimal of situations when the opposition press us near our defence. Everything ends up like a pin-ball machine at the back now and that leads to hesitancy, hoofs, ricochets etc. The first goal was perhaps unlucky because it could be that the sun was in Naughton's eyes and he hesitated instead of heading the ball away. The second goal was again a product of hesitancy that we are suffering as a whole when put under pressure. Often the defence has no-one from midfield showing for an easy pass or the positions taken up by the CBs is wrong (Naughton should not have been the main defender in that position when the ball was punted back imo). Again, this has not been the case in the last 3/4 years and I put it down to a lack of coaching of a strategy/style, where players more often act and take positions in a way that suggests they know what they should be doing.

3) We have no attacking pattern or strategy. Our method of attack is simply getting it wide and putting it in the mixer. There were no overlapping runs, no one-twos or little pass-and-move attempts in the final 3rd. In fact, generally, we often just seem to run towards the ball and then the players try and do little triangles and one-twos when they are effectively crowding each other out, which leads to more pin-ball effects as mentioned above and a greater likelihood of possession being conceded. This actually happens a lot just outside our own penalty area. Even against Dnipro when playing against 10 men and when trying to play keep-ball we often had scares that came from too much crowding by ourselves around the ball, whilst trying to play the ball out of danger by playing to each other. We gave ourselves several heart in mouths moments in the last 15/20 mins of that game and yet we had a man advantage!

4) Where TS is good is recognising that we are giving the opposition too much time on the ball and him coming down from the stands seemed to automatically signal to the players to close down and not pay them too much respect (actually we weren't showing too much respect they just had a plan and we didn't). I guess when you are losing this is the easy thing to do, especially against opposition that you feel you should be beating. Perhaps from the start if you don't feel like the underdog it wont be the first thing you will think of doing. In the absence of a plan perhaps closing down early and pressing is what we should do in every game from the start; though it may eventually cost us in terms of energy later in the game if it's our main/only strategy. TS said himself in an interview after the match that all we have to do is show the same commitment ("Passion") as the opposition and the fact that we have better players than most teams will mean we will more often than not. That says it all.

After the number of games in charge that TS has had we still have no strategy or plan of how we're playing and especially how we're attacking. Soldado is very strong physically from what I saw today, and held his own against some big centre-backs. It was ironic that he was the one person who laid a chance on a plate for one of his teammates (Eriksen's 2nd) and even that came from a Saint defender ****-up (though great chasing down by the Soldier boy). He is but 5 ft 9in; the fact that in the absence of Ade we still only use a tactic of getting it wide and slinging in high balls (or hoofing it from the back) says a lot.

With all the above I see nothing but a real pasting next week at Anfield. No matter what happens in the remaining games to me it's clear that TS is NOT the man for this job long-term, or nor should he be expected to be unless we want a further two years in upper mid-table finishes (it's his first job managing a first team after all and it's showing)..

It was a great comeback and finale, but we should not be fooled by the final result imo.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I watched the match in my local today and this game for me proved that there is little tactically/coaching-wise that TS is inputting into this team, for the following reasons:

1) Again we start a game sluggishly; please don't tell me it's because of Europe now - this has been happening when we've also had 7 to 10 days rest and time on the training pitch (in fact we often start even worse the more time we've had between matches!). We seem to come into a match with no actual gameplan, hence the opposition impose theirs and we look so poor at the start.

2) The individual mistakes are happening much more now because of a lack of strategy in terms of movement, positioning etc imo. EVERYTHING we do is reactive and panic sets in with the most minimal of situations when the opposition press us near our defence. Everything ends up like a pin-ball machine at the back now and that leads to hesitancy, hoofs, ricochets etc. The first goal was perhaps unlucky because it could be that the sun was in Naughton's eyes and he hesitated instead of heading the ball away. The second goal was again a product of hesitancy that we are suffering as a whole when put under pressure. Often the defence has no-one from midfield showing for an easy pass or the positions taken up by the CBs is wrong (Naughton should not have been the main defender in that position when the ball was punted back imo). Again, this has not been the case in the last 3/4 years and I put it down to a lack of coaching of a strategy/style, where players more often act and take positions in a way that suggests they know what they should be doing.

3) We have no attacking pattern or strategy. Our method of attack is simply getting it wide and putting it in the mixer. There were no overlapping runs, no one-twos or little pass-and-move attempts in the final 3rd. In fact, generally, we often just seem to run towards the ball and then the players try and do little triangles and one-twos when they are effectively crowding each other out, which leads to more pin-ball effects as mentioned above and a greater likelihood of possession being conceded. This actually happens a lot just outside our own penalty area. Even against Dnipro when playing against 10 men and when trying to play keep-ball we often had scares that came from too much crowding by ourselves around the ball, whilst trying to play the ball out of danger by playing to each other. We gave ourselves several heart in mouths moments in the last 15/20 mins of that game and yet we had a man advantage!

4) Where TS is good is recognising that we are giving the opposition too much time on the ball and him coming down from the stands seemed to automatically signal to the players to close down and not pay them too much respect (actually we weren't showing too much respect they just had a plan and we didn't). I guess when you are losing this is the easy thing to do, especially against opposition that you feel you should be beating. Perhaps from the start if you don't feel like the underdog it wont be the first thing you will think of doing. In the absence of a plan perhaps closing down early and pressing is what we should do in every game from the start; though it may eventually cost us in terms of energy later in the game if it's our main/only strategy. TS said himself in an interview after the match that all we have to do is show the same commitment ("Passion") as the opposition and the fact that we have better players than most teams will mean we will more often than not. That says it all.

After the number of games in charge that TS has had we still have no strategy or plan of how we're playing and especially how we're attacking. Soldado is very strong physically from what I saw today, and held his own against some big centre-backs. It was ironic that he was the one person who laid a chance on a plate for one of his teammates (Eriksen's 2nd) and even that came from a Saint defender ****-up (though great chasing down by the Soldier boy). He is but 5 ft 9in; the fact that in the absence of Ade we still only use a tactic of getting it wide and slinging in high balls (or hoofing it from the back) says a lot.

With all the above I see nothing but a real pasting next week at Anfield. No matter what happens in the remaining games to me it's clear that TS is NOT the man for this job long-term, or nor should he be expected to be unless we want a further two years in upper mid-table finishes (it's his first job managing a first team after all and it's showing)..

It was a great comeback and finale, but we should not be fooled by the final result imo.

yeah but what about Timmy celebrations for the winning goal....it was a thing of beauty!

in all seriousness you make a lot of good points!

lets see sunday...i fear the worst like you...a whole week to scheme and plan for this! if we have that ridiculous high line at Anfield then timmy needs a cat-scan.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I watched the match in my local today and this game for me proved that there is little tactically/coaching-wise that TS is inputting into this team, for the following reasons:

1) Again we start a game sluggishly; please don't tell me it's because of Europe now - this has been happening when we've also had 7 to 10 days rest and time on the training pitch (in fact we often start even worse the more time we've had between matches!). We seem to come into a match with no actual gameplan, hence the opposition impose theirs and we look so poor at the start.

2) The individual mistakes are happening much more now because of a lack of strategy in terms of movement, positioning etc imo. EVERYTHING we do is reactive and panic sets in with the most minimal of situations when the opposition press us near our defence. Everything ends up like a pin-ball machine at the back now and that leads to hesitancy, hoofs, ricochets etc. The first goal was perhaps unlucky because it could be that the sun was in Naughton's eyes and he hesitated instead of heading the ball away. The second goal was again a product of hesitancy that we are suffering as a whole when put under pressure. Often the defence has no-one from midfield showing for an easy pass or the positions taken up by the CBs is wrong (Naughton should not have been the main defender in that position when the ball was punted back imo). Again, this has not been the case in the last 3/4 years and I put it down to a lack of coaching of a strategy/style, where players more often act and take positions in a way that suggests they know what they should be doing.

3) We have no attacking pattern or strategy. Our method of attack is simply getting it wide and putting it in the mixer. There were no overlapping runs, no one-twos or little pass-and-move attempts in the final 3rd. In fact, generally, we often just seem to run towards the ball and then the players try and do little triangles and one-twos when they are effectively crowding each other out, which leads to more pin-ball effects as mentioned above and a greater likelihood of possession being conceded. This actually happens a lot just outside our own penalty area. Even against Dnipro when playing against 10 men and when trying to play keep-ball we often had scares that came from too much crowding by ourselves around the ball, whilst trying to play the ball out of danger by playing to each other. We gave ourselves several heart in mouths moments in the last 15/20 mins of that game and yet we had a man advantage!

4) Where TS is good is recognising that we are giving the opposition too much time on the ball and him coming down from the stands seemed to automatically signal to the players to close down and not pay them too much respect (actually we weren't showing too much respect they just had a plan and we didn't). I guess when you are losing this is the easy thing to do, especially against opposition that you feel you should be beating. Perhaps from the start if you don't feel like the underdog it wont be the first thing you will think of doing. In the absence of a plan perhaps closing down early and pressing is what we should do in every game from the start; though it may eventually cost us in terms of energy later in the game if it's our main/only strategy. TS said himself in an interview after the match that all we have to do is show the same commitment ("Passion") as the opposition and the fact that we have better players than most teams will mean we will more often than not. That says it all.

After the number of games in charge that TS has had we still have no strategy or plan of how we're playing and especially how we're attacking. Soldado is very strong physically from what I saw today, and held his own against some big centre-backs. It was ironic that he was the one person who laid a chance on a plate for one of his teammates (Eriksen's 2nd) and even that came from a Saint defender ****-up (though great chasing down by the Soldier boy). He is but 5 ft 9in; the fact that in the absence of Ade we still only use a tactic of getting it wide and slinging in high balls (or hoofing it from the back) says a lot.

With all the above I see nothing but a real pasting next week at Anfield. No matter what happens in the remaining games to me it's clear that TS is NOT the man for this job long-term, or nor should he be expected to be unless we want a further two years in upper mid-table finishes (it's his first job managing a first team after all and it's showing)..

It was a great comeback and finale, but we should not be fooled by the final result imo.


1. We started poorly, but I'm not sure we started particularly sluggishly. And while you and I mightn't think it's a good excuse, it is a fact that we've been poor after EL games for several seasons now, not just since Sherwood took over. The fact Sherwood was out of the stand and on the sideline screaming and shouting pretty early in the game shows our start wasn't what he'd planned either.

2. This sounds like every Spurs defence for the last 30 years to me! Not something that started 2 months ago.

On top of which, Sherwood put out a CB pairing of Sandro and Fryers (!) last week which shows how bad things are. Add in Verts' head being up his hole, Naughton having to play both sides at points this season, Dawson being crocked/not very good, Walker/Rose/Kaboul being injured for long stretches...to turn around and say somehow the shaky defence is uniquely down to some clownish training ground work by Sherwood isn't reasonable. It's about a season-long unsettled defence coupled with streaky individual performances and injuries.

Also, it has been mentioned by others previously: even during our good defensive run under AVB, a lot of the time we were flying by the seat of our pants. We were lucky not to concede more in that period. Indeed, the hammerings we took show that just beneath the surface with AVB's defensive set-up there were serious problems.

3. I most definitely saw an attacking pattern today.

First, Eriksen and Chadli (and in theory Lennon too, although he didn't do it very well) roamed all over the front of the midfield, swapping sides very often or popping up through the middle, such that they pulled the opposition defenders around the place and created chances or space. This was linked up by Soldado running all across the front line linking with those two via 1-2's, channel balls, crosses, assists etc. It was this part of the offence that lead to Eriksen's second goal, and also to his chance just before that off the little Soldado pass, and to Chadli's early break on the left from that other lovely Soldado lay off.

Add to that, when Eriksen and Chadli came inside, this left room for our FB's to get crosses in, several of which were dangerous and one of which lead to Eriksen's first goal. Ok, our FB's aren't Maldini and Alves, but the underlying instructions to them provided offensive opportunities.

Finally, our high line helped the midfield get up in support - the chalkboards from today show our rearmost midfielder was Bentaleb, and his average position was just in front of the half way line. It was in part this high line that allowed Siggy to be where he was for the winner.

So I think there was plenty of coherent attacking planning. And the proof is there - 3 goals.

4. Surely you're not saying there was no plan to press, and it was only when Sherwood came down and shouted at the players that it first occured to them to do so? That can't possibly be right. Clearly pressing is a central part of the high line they've been practising in training, and Sherwood came down because he was nuts that they weren't doing it. Just as he was when Arsenal got in behind so often early doors the other week.

Why aren't the players pressing until someone shouts at them? That is a good question and I'd like to know the answer as much as anyone.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

One thing we may never see, is his handling of Lamela. I think that Lamela/Soldado/Eriksen are a trio who could prove intrinsic to our future in terms of their promise, verve and intentions as players. How would he accommodate them though? That is the question...

I agree, and hope this disaster of a season doesn't mean we don't get to see them.

His handling of Eriksen & Soldado have been a sore point for me, I honestly can't understand how Eriksen could not start a game unless injured, and it's fairly obvious he has a good understanding or the beginning of one with Soldado.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1. We started poorly, but I'm not sure we started particularly sluggishly. And while you and I mightn't think it's a good excuse, it is a fact that we've been poor after EL games for several seasons now, not just since Sherwood took over. The fact Sherwood was out of the stand and on the sideline screaming and shouting pretty early in the game shows our start wasn't what he'd planned either.

2. This sounds like every Spurs defence for the last 30 years to me! Not something that started 2 months ago.

On top of which, Sherwood put out a CB pairing of Sandro and Fryers (!) last week which shows how bad things are. Add in Verts' head being up his hole, Naughton having to play both sides at points this season, Dawson being crocked/not very good, Walker/Rose/Kaboul being injured for long stretches...to turn around and say somehow the shaky defence is uniquely down to some clownish training ground work by Sherwood isn't reasonable. It's about a season-long unsettled defence coupled with streaky individual performances and injuries.

Also, it has been mentioned by others previously: even during our good defensive run under AVB, a lot of the time we were flying by the seat of our pants. We were lucky not to concede more in that period. Indeed, the hammerings we took show that just beneath the surface with AVB's defensive set-up there were serious problems.

3. I most definitely saw an attacking pattern today.

First, Eriksen and Chadli (and in theory Lennon too, although he didn't do it very well) roamed all over the front of the midfield, swapping sides very often or popping up through the middle, such that they pulled the opposition defenders around the place and created chances or space. This was linked up by Soldado running all across the front line linking with those two via 1-2's, channel balls, crosses, assists etc. It was this part of the offence that lead to Eriksen's second goal, and also to his chance just before that off the little Soldado pass, and to Chadli's early break on the left from that other lovely Soldado lay off.

Add to that, when Eriksen and Chadli came inside, this left room for our FB's to get crosses in, several of which were dangerous and one of which lead to Eriksen's first goal. Ok, our FB's aren't Maldini and Alves, but the underlying instructions to them provided offensive opportunities.

Finally, our high line helped the midfield get up in support - the chalkboards from today show our rearmost midfielder was Bentaleb, and his average position was just in front of the half way line. It was in part this high line that allowed Siggy to be where he was for the winner.

So I think there was plenty of coherent attacking planning. And the proof is there - 3 goals.

4. Surely you're not saying there was no plan to press, and it was only when Sherwood came down and shouted at the players that it first occured to them to do so? That can't possibly be right. Clearly pressing is a central part of the high line they've been practising in training, and Sherwood came down because he was nuts that they weren't doing it. Just as he was when Arsenal got in behind so often early doors the other week.

Why aren't the players pressing until someone shouts at them? That is a good question and I'd like to know the answer as much as anyone.

Not sure I agree Chancer

- Our poor/slow starts under TS seem to be a motivation issue, I agree previous Spurs sides have been guilty of not getting into gear at the start of games, but to me that was more of a tempo issue vs. just playing ****.
- Honestly, he still plays players I wouldn't start, e.g. Naughton, Dembele, while I understand your comment re CB's, I personally think Naughton/Rose are so poor we just can never afford to play both of them in the same side, Dembele for me makes no sense, he flatters to deceive, adds nothing to the side (maybe it's the system, maybe it's his lack of a football brain)
- I didn't see an attacking pattern, I think you saw some chemistry with Eriksen & Soldado with some contribution from Chadli & Kaboul, but does every member of the team know where the next pass is supposed to go? absolutely not, way too many times a Spurs player in possession looks up and their is no pass on, no outlet (compare to Southampton who definitely had a plan)
- Again, theoretically it's obvious we should press as we play a high line (they are linked), but I see individual pressing, not team pressing which still allows the opposition way too many passing options. In fact I would say our forward players today pressed better than most of our midfield/defenders

So your question really is = why isn't the player listening to the coach? number of answers to that, none of them flattering for the coach.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can't agree with you with regard to criticism aimed at Sherwood. Absolutely right to criticise him, hold him to account etc. But some of the **** aimed at him has got personal on a level I have never seen before even under Harry.

Really, the saggy faced ****, twitchy, comments about his alleged tax issues, bribes/bunts/etc.? you have seen stuff on that personal level to TS?

Saying the guy is a **** coach isn't quite the same.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1. We started poorly, but I'm not sure we started particularly sluggishly. And while you and I mightn't think it's a good excuse, it is a fact that we've been poor after EL games for several seasons now, not just since Sherwood took over. The fact Sherwood was out of the stand and on the sideline screaming and shouting pretty early in the game shows our start wasn't what he'd planned either.

We have started poorly/sluggishly in most of TS 's games now; As I said we have regularly done so in games that haven't come after a EL game and actually seem to start worse when we've had a week or so to prepare. Sherwood having to give the team a gonad*ing at HT has now become a very common theme and I think the issue of games coming after EL ones is a big red herring now.

2. This sounds like every Spurs defence for the last 30 years to me! Not something that started 2 months ago.

On top of which, Sherwood put out a CB pairing of Sandro and Fryers (!) last week which shows how bad things are. Add in Verts' head being up his hole, Naughton having to play both sides at points this season, Dawson being crocked/not very good, Walker/Rose/Kaboul being injured for long stretches...to turn around and say somehow the shaky defence is uniquely down to some clownish training ground work by Sherwood isn't reasonable. It's about a season-long unsettled defence coupled with streaky individual performances and injuries.

Also, it has been mentioned by others previously: even during our good defensive run under AVB, a lot of the time we were flying by the seat of our pants. We were lucky not to concede more in that period. Indeed, the hammerings we took show that just beneath the surface with AVB's defensive set-up there were serious problems.

The CB pairing we have now is commonly considered to be the best at the club by most fans. In fact today, bar Naughton that could be considered our first choice defence, yet it is constantly keystone cops under a little bit of pressure (also not helped by the fact that the DM(s) in front of them have such poor positioning/awareness and also don't give them easy outlets. There has been enough games for the personnel that played today to show more stability. Ramos, Redknapp and AVB after this number of games started showing far less haphazardness amongst the defence after this many games.
We were playing Southampton today not Manure or Arsenal. If there really were problems beneath the surface with AVB's defence his stats showed he did far more work tactically to hide them.
At some point people are going to have to stop using AVB and what he did/didn't do to aid in TS's defence.

3. I most definitely saw an attacking pattern today.

First, Eriksen and Chadli (and in theory Lennon too, although he didn't do it very well) roamed all over the front of the midfield, swapping sides very often or popping up through the middle, such that they pulled the opposition defenders around the place and created chances or space. This was linked up by Soldado running all across the front line linking with those two via 1-2's, channel balls, crosses, assists etc. It was this part of the offence that lead to Eriksen's second goal, and also to his chance just before that off the little Soldado pass, and to Chadli's early break on the left from that other lovely Soldado lay off.

Wow; clutching straws much? Soldado had no right to get into the position to set-up Eriksen for the goal. The pass forward was not good enough for him to get and their defender BALLS UP BIG TIME. Put it this way: if WE had conceded a goal like that would we be holding our hands up saying "that was great attacking play by that lot"?? Please, any of our defenders would get pelters if we conceded that goal!

Add to that, when Eriksen and Chadli came inside, this left room for our FB's to get crosses in, several of which were dangerous and one of which lead to Eriksen's first goal. Ok, our FB's aren't Maldini and Alves, but the underlying instructions to them provided offensive opportunities.

That's my point we just took it to the wings to sling in a cross and hope. Eriksen's first goal: again if WE had conceded that would we be giving our defence pelters? Too right we would: Exhibit A - Kyle Walker's role in Rooney's first in our home 2-2 draw with Manure!! Slinging crosses in, and especially from players known to NOT have great ability in this regard and to a lone striker who is much smaller than their CBs suggests a VERY linmited attacking plan. Where are the chances that are created from incisive pass and move? Did we create any chances like the 3 or 4 Soton did in the first half? Do you remember Boruc having to make the sort of point-blank saves Lloris did in the first half?

Finally, our high line helped the midfield get up in support - the chalkboards from today show our rearmost midfielder was Bentaleb, and his average position was just in front of the half way line. It was in part this high line that allowed Siggy to be where he was for the winner.

So I think there was plenty of coherent attacking planning. And the proof is there - 3 goals.

I actually think the slight drop in defensive line helped us attack them as we were less on the back foot in the second half. We were better in the second half, but like against Arsenal a lot of huff and puff and little quality going forwards apart despite the three goals: one was a last-minute long ranger, two were from defensive mistakes that if we conceded would have led to calls that x and y player be dropped or sold.

4. Surely you're not saying there was no plan to press, and it was only when Sherwood came down and shouted at the players that it first occured to them to do so? That can't possibly be right. Clearly pressing is a central part of the high line they've been practising in training, and Sherwood came down because he was nuts that they weren't doing it. Just as he was when Arsenal got in behind so often early doors the other week.

Why aren't the players pressing until someone shouts at them? That is a good question and I'd like to know the answer as much as anyone.

Southampton were all over us until just after the second goal when we woke up/when Sherwood came down from the stands. I think Sherwood doesn't set up a clear plan and seems to be only good in reacting to how the opposition are playing. Not a skill to be underestimated mind you, but if we keep on starting like zombies (as though we have no plan) and wait until 25 mins/half-time to fix ourselves up/react to what the opposition is doing we could be 3 or 4 nil down before then. Anfield awaits and the omens are not good for the above reasons...
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We have started poorly/sluggishly in most of TS 's games now; As I said we have regularly done so in games that haven't come after a EL game and actually seem to start worse when we've had a week or so to prepare. Sherwood having to give the team a gonad*ing at HT has now become a very common theme and I think the issue of games coming after EL ones is a big red herring now.

The problem with gonad*ing your players is that it only works as a comparative measure. You have to have another level of gonad*ing you can go to so that they are scared of that next level, because if you're gonad*ing them every week it just becomes normal.

I don't remember who it was (think it may have been one of his assistants) that said Ferguson never went to 10 - rarely even to 9. Nobody ever, ever saw him gonad*ing them at the full level, not once.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can't agree with you with regard to criticism aimed at Sherwood. Absolutely right to criticise him, hold him to account etc. But some of the **** aimed at him has got personal on a level I have never seen before even under Harry.

Sometimes it's personal because he's a ****.

He was a **** at Blackburn, he was a **** when he played for us, he was a **** when he worked for Setanta.

From what I've seen of him in the media since it seems as if nothing's changed.
 
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