Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

They both pass everything off as fact...literally EVERYTHING. Whereas GB is more in your face with it, BOL does the same damn thing but in a subtle manner sprinkled with extremely light praise for Sherwood so you don't see what his agenda is.

Or maybe I just don't have an agenda? My praise for Sherwood has not been extremely light. During our good run of form when he first took over I said that it looked like he was implementing a style of football that mixed the best bits of Emirates Marketing Project and Dortmund FFS! Genuinely don't understand where the anger comes from with you.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

if you are physically prepared, and you have practised correctly, you don't make mistakes

mistakes only happen when you don't know what you are doing or if you are mentally fatigued

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

And another thing Bol you point to AVB's record points haul last season yet I think Liverpool are going to smash it. Which makes me wonder what if AVB had set up the team up with a different plan last season? One in which players like Ade and Hudd could have played a bigger role. Look how well Ade has performed this season had he done this last season could we not have amassed even more points and made sure we qualified for the Champs league? Looking at how Liverpool have performed this season and the system they have in place does for me call into question AVB's qualities as a coach. I can't think of another top class coach who has put in a system so reliant on an individual player to the detriment of the team as a whole.

Liverpool have done extremely well and Rodgers has done a frankly awesome job, but to say them performing well calls into question AVB's qualities as a coach would also have to call into question loads of other coaches too. Just because he has done an outstanding job and overachieving it doesn't mean coaches that have done a good job need to be called into question.

Ade was used last season, his touch just deserted him and he couldn't hit a barn door. Hudd was also used but had Sandro and Dembele infront of him and was returning from 18 months injured.

I don't know what I'm debating here - could AVB in some alternate universe have done something different that meant we hit 74 points? 76? 80? Yeah maybe. But does anyone think our squad last year was really that good?

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Liverpool have done extremely well and Rodgers has done a frankly awesome job, but to say them performing well calls into question AVB's qualities as a coach would also have to call into question loads of other coaches too. Just because he has done an outstanding job and overachieving it doesn't mean coaches that have done a good job need to be called into question.

Ade was used last season, his touch just deserted him and he couldn't hit a barn door. Hudd was also used but had Sandro and Dembele infront of him and was returning from 18 months injured.

I don't know what I'm debating here - could AVB in some alternate universe have done something different that meant we hit 74 points? 76? 80? Yeah maybe. But does anyone think our squad last year was really that good?

The biggest factor IMO was that we were, for the first time in a few seasons, playing without Luka Modric as our pivot-point…people ignore (or forget) just what a vitally important player he was for us.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think I've found the source of your problem and why you don't get modern coaching - it's all summed up in that post there.

There are literally hundreds of things a good coach will do to avoid individual errors. That's partly what coaching is about - and it's certainly what the preparation immediately before a match is about. Of course, if what you do before a match is shout about heart and determination, you are likely to have a team running about all over the place and making mistakes.

Look at the changes AVB made to our training - he put all the technical work that required thought at the end of the sessions where the players were tired. That led to them being more concentrated when tired and reduced the number of goals we conceded late in matches. Compare and contrast that with just shouting louder and then blaming them to the press - which do you think is more likely to work?

All of that is before you take the other players into account. If there's a player who is likely to be making mistakes (and you have no alternative other than to play him) then you make sure he has cover. You make sure the other players know that he needs a bit if help.

The other way to reduce that kind of error is to keep the ball more. Control the game, play it on your terms at your pace. Again, compare and contrast with slugging it out end to end - which is more likely to produce errors?

An individual is responsible for an individual error in the exact moment when it happens but if a whole team is producing a lot of errors then it's down to the manager.

Like you I hope LVG is the next manager but is the anyway to put this post into the classics thread so that in a years time when one of our players make a massive mistake I can quote you.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

if you are physically prepared, and you have practised correctly, you don't make mistakes

mistakes only happen when you don't know what you are doing or if you are mentally fatigued

That's the biggest crock of sh1t I have heard for some time. Take the Arsnl yesterday. No one can argue that they werent prepared, don't know what they are doing, are fatigued or have a rubbish coach. Or are you?

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Liverpool have done extremely well and Rodgers has done a frankly awesome job, but to say them performing well calls into question AVB's qualities as a coach would also have to call into question loads of other coaches too. Just because he has done an outstanding job and overachieving it doesn't mean coaches that have done a good job need to be called into question.

Ade was used last season, his touch just deserted him and he couldn't hit a barn door. Hudd was also used but had Sandro and Dembele infront of him and was returning from 18 months injured.

I don't know what I'm debating here - could AVB in some alternate universe have done something different that meant we hit 74 points? 76? 80? Yeah maybe. But does anyone think our squad last year was really that good?

Btw I always enjoy your posts even though I rarely agree with you! You missed my point I think. I call into question AVB abilities because he designed system that relied almost solely on Bale producing his magic to the detriment of the other players in the team. I do think we had an excellent squad last season even minus Modric with strength in depth in most areas except perhaps up front. If AVB was the great coach you think he is then yes he should have done better just like Redknapp could have done better the season before if he had been more focused on Spurs rather than England.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's the biggest crock of sh1t I have heard for some time. Take the Arsnl yesterday. No one can argue that they werent prepared, don't know what they are doing, are fatigued or have a rubbish coach. Or are you?

The fact that Wenger has never beaten Mourinho kind of tells you that his plan isn't working. Not having or wanting a plan B is a weakness that has haunted Arsenal and Wenger for years. Arsenal generally do poorly against the other top 4 sides.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's the biggest crock of sh1t I have heard for some time. Take the Arsnl yesterday. No one can argue that they werent prepared, don't know what they are doing, are fatigued or have a rubbish coach. Or are you?

Wenger took responsibility for what happened yesterday.

How many individual mistakes did we make last season compared to this (including AVB and Sherwood's time this season). Maybe it's not to do with pure quality of manager but maybe something is amiss if so many individual mistakes just keep happenning. A lack of confidence, a lack of shared belief in the methods, a lack of comfort in the country or with team mates. If things are firing as many mistakes as keep making wouldn't happen.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Like you I hope LVG is the next manager but is the anyway to put this post into the classics thread so that in a years time when one of our players make a massive mistake I can quote you.

That's his problem. He thinks football is played by automatons under the direct instructions of a supreme being. The manager is responsible for everything in his world. Footballers as individuals don't exist!

Like you, I would love this to be archived in classics, so that when we get a manager Scarra approves of and an individual error occurs, I would love to hear his excuses then.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Wenger took responsibility for what happened yesterday.

How many individual mistakes did we make last season compared to this (including AVB and Sherwood's time this season). Maybe it's not to do with pure quality of manager but maybe something is amiss if so many individual mistakes just keep happenning. A lack of confidence, a lack of shared belief in the methods, a lack of comfort in the country or with team mates. If things are firing as many mistakes as keep making wouldn't happen.

Of course. But we have deficiencies throughout the team, inadequate individuals, players injured and/or out of form. All the above situations were inherited by TS. He is doing okay with what he has got. For example, No one would choose Naughton and Rose as first choice fullbacks or play Sandro and Fryers as centre backs away to Benfica - but what other choice has he had? Far too early to judge him.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Bore off yourself, there's many people more anti Sherwood than me!

Do people seriously think though, that Sherwood has not briefed the press against AVB? Despite Castles saying that AVB thought he did so. Despite Richard Keys tweeting something that pretty much confirmed it. Despite David Hytner writing the type of vomit inducing article about Sherwood following a terrible European performance that AVB would never have gotten? Despite Sherwood being able to rage against the entire team and getting off scot-free, while AVB can say 'we should be ashamed' and cop all manner of stick in the press? Come on.

I don't have an anti-Sherwood agenda, but I think it's just ridiculous to bury heads in the sand and deny what is blatantly in front of our eyes.

The Keys comment was withdrawn pretty much immediately and said that it was a misunderstanding. It doesn't mean that Sherwood didn't brief him but it doesn't mean that it is fdact that he did either.

I'd be interesting in seeing the Castle's quotes where he says that AVB thinks Sherwood leaked against him. I haven't seen them before.

I haven't seen the Hytner article you refer to either and would appreciate a link. I don't think many people take him very seriously. Obviously he had his issues with AVB but my understanding is that the origins of this were AVB being aloof and not being very adept at the media game in this country.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Like you I hope LVG is the next manager but is the anyway to put this post into the classics thread so that in a years time when one of our players make a massive mistake I can quote you.

I am surprised you have tossed your hat in the ring for LVG, I thought you would be more likely to give Tim a chance bearing in mind that you were talking up such young English, coaches like Eddie Howe not so long ago. Personally I fear that we are walking into a car crash with LVG.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I am surprised you have tossed your hat in the ring for LVG, I thought you would be more likely to give Tim a chance bearing in mind that you were talking up such young English, coaches like Eddie Howe not so long ago. Personally I fear that we are walking into a car crash with LVG.

It can't be any worse than the one we're currently in.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It can't be any worse than the one we're currently in.

Car crash? We'll probably finish in the same place in the table as last season under the Portuguese genius.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The Keys comment was withdrawn pretty much immediately and said that it was a misunderstanding. It doesn't mean that Sherwood didn't brief him but it doesn't mean that it is fdact that he did either.

I'd be interesting in seeing the Castle's quotes where he says that AVB thinks Sherwood leaked against him. I haven't seen them before.

I haven't seen the Hytner article you refer to either and would appreciate a link. I don't think many people take him very seriously. Obviously he had his issues with AVB but my understanding is that the origins of this were AVB being aloof and not being very adept at the media game in this country.

We will only ever find out if Sherwood's predecessor shakes off the gag order he must've taken in order to receive his pay-off...

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

what did he get right today?

- we were shown up in passing/shape/discipline from Southampton at WHL ffs

Simply not true. For the first 30 minutes we were shown up down to playing a high line (a tactic I can understand against Southampton) but (yet again) not pressing in midfield. As with against Arsenal, once we sorted that we looked much better. Controlled the game in the 2nd half. I don't think Southampton had a shot on target. We had more possession than them, more touches in their final third and completed more passes than 'possession specialists' Southampton.

- He didn't address the FB issue at all, both Naughton/Rose were struggling, surely bring on Dawson and move one of Kaboul/Vert wide?

Rose was horrific going forward, like terrible, but defensively sound enough, he didn't look like he was struggling and it wasn't as if anyone was gliding past him at every opportunity.

Naughton made two horrific errors that an amateur footballer would have been ashamed of let alone a pro, but other than that he had a fairly average game for a player who isn't really good enough for a top 6 side.

Kaboul and Verts were doing a decent enough job on Lambert who is one of their biggest threats so I why move either of them to full-bacl.

So all in all, when you take a reasoned and objective look on his decision to leave the back four as it was, it doesn't look that a particularly bad decision. I don't think Southampton had a shot on target in the 2nd half.

- The Townsend sub didn't work

It didn't. But then again Lennon was doing absolutely nothing so he had to do something, when he'd already made the Siggy sub, replacing like for like made sense.

Again, a reasoned and objective look.

- The siggy sub showed what he's been getting wrong all season, we need another ball playing midfielder next to Eriksen

He started with one today (Dembele) he's also played Bentaleb in pretty much every game so far (another one). He had the sense today to see that Dembele wasn't at the races and made a change. The reason why the change was successful had nothing to do with Siggy being a ball playing midfielder. It was to do with the fact he actually looked up for it and performed once he came on. I'm not going to say that was down to Sherwood's 'motivational ability' or any balls like that, because in all likely-hood it's down to the player. But Sherwood has to be given credit for bringing someone on who scored the winning goal for us. It's happened, it's a fact. He made the decision and therefore he has to get credit for it.

If people want to say that TS's losses are down to individual errors, his wins have pretty much been down to a player or two playing their ass off (Ade in his first few games, today it was Eriksen & Soldado)

Individual errors like those today (player's misjudging the flight of a ball, ballsing up clearances etc) are out of his control. Completely and utterly, I'm sorry, but I like many other people have played football to a semi decent level. Even at that level had I made the mistakes Naughton made today I would be considering hangning my boots up, no-matter what coaching I had or hadn't received. Individual errors where people don't track runners or we set up from a corner in completely the wrong fashion I can see how people can put the blame on TS, but errors like today, Verts and Walker in the Chelsea game. No way.

Of course the games he has won have been down to a player or two playing their asses off. That's how football games are won. Whether that's down to him or not we don't know. All I know is that today he let Eriksen run free. He literally popped up all over the place and he seemed to enjoy it.

Again, a reasoned and objective look at things.

Let's be clear, but for a 90th minute shot from outside, he would likely have been shown the door today imo, and still should be.

A 90th minute shot from outside which came from a player that wouldn't have been on the pitch had TS not decided to put him there. It happened, so he won't be shown the door.

He's not SAF, he's not Mourinho, he's probably not even Harry Redknapp. But, when you take an objective and reasoned look at things, he's doing a decent (note, not fantastic) job.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Btw I always enjoy your posts even though I rarely agree with you! You missed my point I think. I call into question AVB abilities because he designed system that relied almost solely on Bale producing his magic to the detriment of the other players in the team. I do think we had an excellent squad last season even minus Modric with strength in depth in most areas except perhaps up front.

What if by lessening the focus on Bale and increasing it on say Sig, we got less points?

Bale was a difference maker. He could be trusted to deliver in the crucial moments. Liverpool are lucky in that they have both Suarez and Sturridge finishing chances. Last season we had a Suarez but we didn't have a Sturridge. AVB had Hulk and Falcao at Porto so he can definitely design a playing style which gets the best out of more than one player, but they need to be good enough to deserve it IMO.

This season, we haven't had a Suarez, Ade has probably been our Sturridge but we sold our Suarez and didn't replace him, hence standing still and probably going backwards.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

What if by lessening the focus on Bale and increasing it on say Sig, we got less points?

Bale was a difference maker. He could be trusted to deliver in the crucial moments. Liverpool are lucky in that they have both Suarez and Sturridge finishing chances. Last season we had a Suarez but we didn't have a Sturridge. AVB had Hulk and Falcao at Porto so he can definitely design a playing style which gets the best out of more than one player, but they need to be good enough to deserve it IMO.

This season, we haven't had a Suarez, Ade has probably been our Sturridge but we sold our Suarez and didn't replace him, hence standing still and probably going backwards.

Sig only no. But what about Hudd, Ade Siggy. What if he tried playing Dembele in an advanced role instead of as a holding midfielder. I am no tactical genius which I'm sure you can tell, but it cannot be good surely to build a team for one player only. Liverpool haven't and they are a team of journeymen interspersed with some real diamonds.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Simply not true. For the first 30 minutes we were shown up down to playing a high line (a tactic I can understand against Southampton) but (yet again) not pressing in midfield. As with against Arsenal, once we sorted that we looked much better. Controlled the game in the 2nd half. I don't think Southampton had a shot on target. We had more possession than them, more touches in their final third and completed more passes than 'possession specialists' Southampton.



Rose was horrific going forward, like terrible, but defensively sound enough, he didn't look like he was struggling and it wasn't as if anyone was gliding past him at every opportunity.

Naughton made two horrific errors that an amateur footballer would have been ashamed of let alone a pro, but other than that he had a fairly average game for a player who isn't really good enough for a top 6 side.

Kaboul and Verts were doing a decent enough job on Lambert who is one of their biggest threats so I why move either of them to full-bacl.

So all in all, when you take a reasoned and objective look on his decision to leave the back four as it was, it doesn't look that a particularly bad decision. I don't think Southampton had a shot on target in the 2nd half.



It didn't. But then again Lennon was doing absolutely nothing so he had to do something, when he'd already made the Siggy sub, replacing like for like made sense.

Again, a reasoned and objective look.



He started with one today (Dembele) he's also played Bentaleb in pretty much every game so far (another one). He had the sense today to see that Dembele wasn't at the races and made a change. The reason why the change was successful had nothing to do with Siggy being a ball playing midfielder. It was to do with the fact he actually looked up for it and performed once he came on. I'm not going to say that was down to Sherwood's 'motivational ability' or any balls like that, because in all likely-hood it's down to the player. But Sherwood has to be given credit for bringing someone on who scored the winning goal for us. It's happened, it's a fact. He made the decision and therefore he has to get credit for it.



Individual errors like those today (player's misjudging the flight of a ball, ballsing up clearances etc) are out of his control. Completely and utterly, I'm sorry, but I like many other people have played football to a semi decent level. Even at that level had I made the mistakes Naughton made today I would be considering hangning my boots up, no-matter what coaching I had or hadn't received. Individual errors where people don't track runners or we set up from a corner in completely the wrong fashion I can see how people can put the blame on TS, but errors like today, Verts and Walker in the Chelsea game. No way.

Of course the games he has won have been down to a player or two playing their asses off. That's how football games are won. Whether that's down to him or not we don't know. All I know is that today he let Eriksen run free. He literally popped up all over the place and he seemed to enjoy it.

Again, a reasoned and objective look at things.



A 90th minute shot from outside which came from a player that wouldn't have been on the pitch had TS not decided to put him there. It happened, so he won't be shown the door.

He's not SAF, he's not Mourinho, he's probably not even Harry Redknapp. But, when you take an objective and reasoned look at things, he's doing a decent (note, not fantastic) job.

A great forensic analysis Millsy. Fantastic post.