Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well I am watching the second greatest Premier League manager ever, with a team full of winners, getting pumped 4-0 at half time at Stamford Bridge.

Where is the technique, why are they just giving the ball away, where is the passion, where is the organisation?

They got pumped 4-0 at half time by Liverpool too.

You guys need to realise that sometimes you can't just blame the manager.

Sherwood does not come across well in interviews, he needs a lot of media training to say the least.

But a lot of our losses are down to huge player errors.

Remember Vertonghen fell over to gift Cheat$ki the win against us?

Remember Vertonghen and Lloris against City when Navas scored after 1 minute?

Remember against **** when we were wide open and Rosicky scored after 1 minute?

All of those are clearly Sherwood's fault, right?

I'm not his biggest fan, but try supporting him for a few games, see what happens.

Their results against the top three are virtually identical to ours. If we'd turned up to both of our league games against them we'd be ahead of them.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Their results against the top three are virtually identical to ours. If we'd turned up to both of our league games against them we'd be ahead of them.

We did turn up to the one at the lane. Just couldn't finish the chances that we created iirc

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Like some people were caught with the ideal of AVB (vs. actual product), some people are caught up in this "romance" of TS being this unknown/inexperienced coach who defies the odds and takes Spurs somewhere.

Problem is, it isn't Hollywood, and if it was, for Spurs it would be a black comedy ...

The guy was a poor choice, following a poor choice and has no chance of being here next season, especially on the back of the last 8-10 games.

The guy was the default choice for a team who had a managerial change in mid season. He has done a reasonable holding job. It's just that so many posters started from a position that he was the devils spawn that anything he has achieved has been completely poisoned.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The guy was the default choice for a team who had a managerial change in mid season. He has done a reasonable holding job. It's just that so many posters started from a position that he was the devils spawn that anything he has achieved has been completely poisoned.

Out of interest what do you mean by 'achieved'? What in your opinion has he 'achieved'?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The guy was the default choice for a team who had a managerial change in mid season. He has done a reasonable holding job. It's just that so many posters started from a position that he was the devils spawn that anything he has achieved has been completely poisoned.

He really wasn't. Someone, anyone, who has managed adults (or even been an assistant to that) in a real football team would have been the default choice.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

He really wasn't. Someone, anyone, who has managed adults (or even been an assistant to that) in a real football team would have been the default choice.

Glenn Hoddle?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This is a fair point.

Imo, I think it's because TS is close mates with many if the same sections of the press that were Harry's mates. I also believe TS is the club 'mole' that was leaking all the internal rumblings to the Guardian's David Hytner and so naturally the Harry-biased press will want to keep main source happy; hence the press A) didn't pick up on the fact that TS actually blamed the players (like they claimed with AVB) and B) the Harry-biased press actually praised him for it (unlike what they did when they claimed AVB did it).
It's this direct line to internal Spurs rumblings that makes me hope TS gets removed totally from the club in the summer.

Before anybody gives off and says "what Harry-biased media" then ask yourself what stick Harry got for being part of the biggest flop I have known as a Spurs fan: throwing away a 13 point lead in third AND finishing below Arsenal? If that had been many other managers he would have been given the turnip head treatment.

Oh and if anyone wonders what I mean by the Hytner and Sherwood links, check this blatant act of butt-licking after the Benfica 1st leg mess, prior to last week's NLD: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/mar/14/tim-sherwood-plain-talking-tottenham

You create a narrative to fit to your beliefs. Most people in football leak info, AVB, agents, players, who can't draw up a ****ney media conspiracy to fit with how you feel. Everyone's at it.

With regard to Harry-biased media, who has been the most successful Spurs manager in the last 5 years? Maybe he wasn't castigated as a. its not uncommon to lose a 13 point lead, b. he'd done better in the job (getting 4th) than any other Spurs manager.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Glenn Hoddle?

As I said in the Hoddle thread, that would have been a terrible decision but far, far better than Timmeh.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You create a narrative to fit to your beliefs. Most people in football leak info, AVB, agents, players, who can't draw up a ****ney media conspiracy to fit with how you feel. Everyone's at it.

With regard to Harry-biased media, who has been the most successful Spurs manager in the last 5 years? Maybe he wasn't castigated as a. its not uncommon to lose a 13 point lead, b. he'd done better in the job (getting 4th) than any other Spurs manager.

That's all well and good, but you've said nothing there to show that my point about TS is NOT true. Leaking indeed happens at different clubs, but can you state me another situation where such leaks have led to a complete meltdown of a season and the main person seemingly benefitting from said leaks gets the manager's job and is the least qualified of all 20 managers in the league the club is in?

With regards to Harry, are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that if another manager, say AVB, Ramos or Jol, had squandered a 13 point lead with the squad we had (remember Harry himself talked us up as title challengers at some point) they would have been given similar treatment (i.e. little scrutiny of how much he had ballsed it up/bottled it)??

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

As I said in the Hoddle thread, that would have been a terrible decision but far, far better than Timmeh.

Do you genuinely think there would have been much difference? What would Glenn have done far far better than Tim Sherwood in your opinion?

He was clearly the alternative to TS for a short stint at the helm.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's all well and good, but you've said nothing there to show that my point about TS is NOT true. Leaking indeed happens at different clubs, but can you state me another situation where such leaks have led to a complete meltdown of a season and the main person seemingly benefitting from said leaks gets the manager's job and is the least qualified of all 20 managers in the league the club is in?

With regards to Harry, are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that if another manager, say AVB, Ramos or Jol, had squandered a 13 point lead with the squad we had (remember Harry himself talked us up as title challengers at some point) they would have been given similar treatment (i.e. little scrutiny of how much he had ballsed it up/bottled it)??

That is your narrative. Your reading of history. Your story. I've seen nothing concrete to show that is the case. And if you think Levy is just some puppet who would let a Machiavellian type walk through his club and business you underrate what is a stake for those running the club. Its fiction and ridiculous.

Maybe you think the media care more about Spurs finishing 3rd than they do, or Spurs finishing above the Scum than they do. Its not big news. Its not like the England manger losing two games etc.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Do you genuinely think there would have been much difference? What would Glenn have done far far better than Tim Sherwood in your opinion?

He was clearly the alternative to TS for a short stint at the helm.

He wouldn't be creating divisions in the dressing room, he wouldn't be publicly putting the blame he's due on the players, we wouldn't have taken a backward step in our progression to a modern defence/midfield, there would have been no risk of our players believing that heart and passion are some kind of substitute for ability. We wouldn't look quite so ridiculous to the rest of the footballing community and we may just have got rid of the last of the inhibitive, old school, English style of management from our club.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That is your narrative. Your reading of history. Your story. I've seen nothing concrete to show that is the case. And if you think Levy is just some puppet who would let a Machiavellian type walk through his club and business you underrate what is a stake for those running the club. Its fiction and ridiculous.

Maybe you think the media care more about Spurs finishing 3rd than they do, or Spurs finishing above the Scum than they do. Its not big news. Its not like the England manger losing two games etc.

Ok, tell me exactly how the 'narrative' is fiction and ridiculous. The David Hytner articles (esp the one lauding Sherwood after his Chelsea rant and the Benfica home mediocrity) suggest otherwise.

It's ironic that you say the England manager losing two games would be bigger news; who were they cheerleading to be the England manager?? Irony..

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's all well and good, but you've said nothing there to show that my point about TS is NOT true. Leaking indeed happens at different clubs, but can you state me another situation where such leaks have led to a complete meltdown of a season and the main person seemingly benefitting from said leaks gets the manager's job and is the least qualified of all 20 managers in the league the club is in?

With regards to Harry, are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that if another manager, say AVB, Ramos or Jol, had squandered a 13 point lead with the squad we had (remember Harry himself talked us up as title challengers at some point) they would have been given similar treatment (i.e. little scrutiny of how much he had ballsed it up/bottled it)??

Id rather be in that position and bottle it than not be in that position at all. Dont forget in the final season HE didnt really spend that much.

I mentioned a while ago that us fans are really a disgrace (and our own worst enemy) and we are much worse than the so called 'trigger happy' Chairmen out there. We tend to think the grass is greener on the other side - not always the case. Harry wasnt a glamour name and the majority were (and still are) obsessed with such a name... If we still had Harry I would hazard a guess that we would be much more competitive than we are now and definitely higher.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

He wouldn't be creating divisions in the dressing room, he wouldn't be publicly putting the blame he's due on the players, we wouldn't have taken a backward step in our progression to a modern defence/midfield, there would have been no risk of our players believing that heart and passion are some kind of substitute for ability. We wouldn't look quite so ridiculous to the rest of the footballing community and we may just have got rid of the last of the inhibitive, old school, English style of management from our club.

Not sure I can take you on both at once!

So Scara, nothing about Glenn's ability, just your absolute distaste for Sherwood. Can I ask, how did you know from the get go that Sherwood would be like this? Its almost like you knew? Amazing.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ok, tell me exactly how the 'narrative' is fiction and ridiculous. The David Hytner articles (esp the one lauding Sherwood after his Chelsea rant and the Benfica home mediocrity) suggest otherwise.

It's ironic that you say the England manager losing two games would be bigger news; who were they cheerleading to be the England manager?? Irony..

All history is a narrative. There is no such thing as the one truth, one correct story. His-Story makes up any historical account. The only way to understand a person's account of the past, is to understand their bias. In this case, you like AVB, you dislike the cocckney lot. And Scara despite his pretenses otherwise is not too different.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not sure I can take you on both at once!

So Scara, nothing about Glenn's ability, just your absolute distaste for Sherwood. Can I ask, how did you know from the get go that Sherwood would be like this? Its almost like you knew? Amazing.

Nothing about his ability as the season was over (barring employing a genius) as soon as we sacked AVB so it's not really relevant. That's all a caretaker role is after all.

Because he has previous. Both Hodgson and Hoddle (who, for all their faults, seem to be pretty honest) have spoken about it.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Id rather be in that position and bottle it than not be in that position at all. Dont forget in the final season HE didnt really spend that much.

I mentioned a while ago that us fans are really a disgrace (and our own worst enemy) and we are much worse than the so called 'trigger happy' Chairmen out there. We tend to think the grass is greener on the other side - not always the case. Harry wasnt a glamour name and the majority were (and still are) obsessed with such a name... If we still had Harry I would hazard a guess that we would be much more competitive than we are now and definitely higher.

Cobblers.

What fans want is a manager who can get us up there AND not neglect his job, plus pay attention to the little details that make a club like ours be in the best position possible to push above our weight against our more cash-rich competitors. Glamour of a manager is irrelevant. It's the likelihood of a manager achieving results long-term is what fans look for.

And I'm sure that Harry and his lack of detail in his approach would have got us into a WORSE position. He himself knew this, which is why he spouted his 'players need stability' crap in the media to get himself sacked.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Cobblers.

What fans want is a manager who can get us up there AND not neglect his job, plus pay attention to the little details that make a club like ours be in the best position possible to push above our weight against our more cash-rich competitors. Glamour of a manager is irrelevant. It's the likelihood of a manager achieving results long-term is what fans look for.

And I'm sure that Harry and his lack of detail in his approach would have got us into a WORSE position. He himself knew this, which is why he spouted his 'players need stability' crap in the media to get himself sacked.

Agree with the bold. Exactly right.

Second part, evidence - playing results! - suggest otherwise. But we'll never know. It is conjecture.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

All history is a narrative. There is no such thing as the one truth, one correct story. His-Story makes up any historical account. The only way to understand a person's account of the past, is to understand their bias. In this case, you like AVB, you dislike the cocckney lot. And Scara despite his pretenses otherwise is not too different.

All interesting points, but this isn't really showing that the 'narrative' is 'fiction and ridiculous' is it?
You are now putting your own bias into it by saying I 'dislike the ****ney lot', which I actually don't. Just the bias towards Harry and his chums.

Never mind