Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[screen nayim]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

True but under AVB we'd picked up 0 wins, 3 points, in 7 games against any half decent opposition this season, home and away. Including drawing with United themselves at home. Lost at home to Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Drew at Everton. It is therefore a bit fanciful to think we would have gone to both Old Trafford and Southampton under AVB and picked up 6 points. Especially with all the other circumstances (no Ade, morale at rock bottom etc) Man Utd were also in their best run of form this season, when we beat them. 6 wins in 8 games with the only other defeat being against Chelsea. Everton, Man Utd and Southampton are big wins for us in that mini-league that has developed. Without them we'd be looking at 9th now.

Oi! Pack it in! How are people supposed to **** Sherwood off, with you keep making so many good points?

 

[veron23]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

http://www.football365.com/f365-says/9158713/F365-Says

Nice write up.

I think alot of you along with this writer are missing something - no offense but it seems some people on here have only watched our players since theyve been at spurs and not really clued up on their ability.
Dembele is an ALL ROUND MIDFIELDER WITH ZERO PHYSICAL WEAKNESSES
Paulinho - as above minus finishing ability.

Dembele can do it all technically, he can tackle, dribble, shoot run all day etc etc etc. he's played in many positions for previous clubs even striker.
Paulinho was used as a defensive midfielder for the national team but an attacking midfielder for his previous club - he has all the attacking flair of other brazilians (ive seeen him dribble pass an entire team before) but unlike them he likes to get stuck in - he also is amazing at making late runs into the box.

they are both all action midfielders who can EASILY be a fernandinho/yaya. de rossi, cambiasso etc etc

Why arnt they doing this for Spurs? is the only question

its either they dont have tactical awareness to go with their physical ability or AVB and TS dont have the tactical awareness to make them the dominant players they can be.

Maybe its a bit of both but that article said when adebayor dropped deep we didnt have the type of midfielders in our team to replace him up top??? what a load of rubbish. I know from watching those 2 midfielders before they came to spurs (plus the odd good game in our shirt were they make breaks into the box) that they are 2 truly world class TALENTS but for some reason they are not doing it.

if we played
sandro
paulinho dembele

with paulinho and dembele using their engines to support the striker
or

paulinho eriksen dembele

with paulinho and dembele using their strength and tackling to allow eriksen to be a number 10


and they played to their fullest every week I have zero doubt we would dominate ANY midfield in the EPL

 

[Cochise]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We could play that three in midfield, but only if we had two narrow ball playing wingers (Eriksen, Lamela even Holtby, Sig or Chadli). Without some techincal players in there to pull the opposition back line out of shape and to create a numerical advantage in the middle, we won't be able to effectively free up those two box to box midfielders often enough. The few times we did pick them out in space when not counter attacking was when Eriksen and Lennon dropped in and took their midfields attention off Dembele/Paulinho.

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Today wasn't good enough, TS has had 10 odd games, his injured players are mostly back.

Today we looked very poor at home against Everton, got the 3 points with a ton of luck.

Unfortunately it's similar (not style wise) to AVB, getting just enough points to stay relevant, but team playing generally poor football.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Today wasn't good enough, TS has had 10 odd games, his injured players are mostly back.

Today we looked very poor at home against Everton, got the 3 points with a ton of luck.

Unfortunately it's similar (not style wise) to AVB, getting just enough points to stay relevant, but team playing generally poor football.

it would go a long way to explaining why there might be legs to the rumours of Timbo sticking around to work with Van Gaal. Could be a very very clever move for the club if it happens as he's able to get some sort of tune from the squad as it is right now, albeit with deficiencies in execution, so if he were to look and learn from an old fella who's been around the block a few times, it could well be a great thing for continuity.

 

[Lost Mango]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

it would go a long way to explaining why there might be legs to the rumours of Timbo sticking around to work with Van Gaal. Could be a very very clever move for the club if it happens as he's able to get some sort of tune from the squad as it is right now, albeit with deficiencies in execution, so if he were to look and learn from an old fella who's been around the block a few times, it could well be a great thing for continuity.

My concern there would be who decides when Deadwood has 'completed his apprenticeship'? Him or LVG or Levy?

Given the alleged whispering campaign that so called Wormtoungue used against AVB, it could be a disaster waiting to happen if he thinks he is ready to fly solo again before LVG is ready to let go.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

it would go a long way to explaining why there might be legs to the rumours of Timbo sticking around to work with Van Gaal. Could be a very very clever move for the club if it happens as he's able to get some sort of tune from the squad as it is right now, albeit with deficiencies in execution, so if he were to look and learn from an old fella who's been around the block a few times, it could well be a great thing for continuity.

There's no way Sherwood and Van Gaal can work together. They have completely different ideas about management.
Van Gaal is all about the system, giving the players no freedom, instead they are cogs in his system under his authoritarian orders.
Sherwood seems to be about man management, letting the players express themselves and trusting in players.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I suppose it comes down then to what Sherwood wants for himself. If he sees value in working alongside a man like Van Gaal who clearly will not be around for years and years but has a wealth of experience and knowledge that could be part of a very valuable learning process.

There's probably only a handful of managers in the world who could honestly claim that they know enough not to improve from tutelage under LvG.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

There's no way Sherwood and Van Gaal can work together. They have completely different ideas about management.
Van Gaal is all about the system, giving the players no freedom, instead they are cogs in his system under his authoritarian orders.
Sherwood seems to be about man management, letting the players express themselves and trusting in players.

this

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

A lot of articles flying around the interweb today saying LVG and TS next season. Honestly think this would be the best thing for everyone, certainly think Sherwood could do with it (which is no bad thing) and at the end of it we will be left with a better coach than we have now.

The best thing for everyone except Freund. I think he'd be perfect to learn from LvG and then take over at a later date. All the good bits about Timmeh with none of the bad.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

it would go a long way to explaining why there might be legs to the rumours of Timbo sticking around to work with Van Gaal. Could be a very very clever move for the club if it happens as he's able to get some sort of tune from the squad as it is right now, albeit with deficiencies in execution, so if he were to look and learn from an old fella who's been around the block a few times, it could well be a great thing for continuity.

Agreed. I said something similar when Sherwood was given the job in the first place. If Sherwood accepts that this half a season is an opportunity for him, but that long term he's not quite ready for a job like this and that he could learn under someone like LvG could be very good both for him and the club..

The best thing for everyone except Freund. I think he'd be perfect to learn from LvG and then take over at a later date. All the good bits about Timmeh with none of the bad.

I get that you don't like Sherwood, but what has Freund ever done to make you think that he is the right man?

Like it or not, but Levy and Baldini are in a much better position to evaluate these things. Even if you think you're a better judge of character and ability than them the fact that they have orders of magnitude more information available to them should count for something.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

There's no way Sherwood and Van Gaal can work together. They have completely different ideas about management.
Van Gaal is all about the system, giving the players no freedom, instead they are cogs in his system under his authoritarian orders.
Sherwood seems to be about man management, letting the players express themselves and trusting in players.

Perhaps a tad early in Sherwood's managerial career to start pigeonholing what he is and what he isn't?

Sherwood has taken an approach here and now in this situation. This doesn't mean he will always be doing the same.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I get that you don't like Sherwood, but what has Freund ever done to make you think that he is the right man?

Like it or not, but Levy and Baldini are in a much better position to evaluate these things. Even if you think you're a better judge of character and ability than them the fact that they have orders of magnitude more information available to them should count for something.

I think the two come out fairly similarly in a comparison. For many it seems that having been a footballer ticks a lot of boxes (not for me). Having been a Spurs footballer ticks even more (I can see the romanticism there if it's a player we actually liked). Both have worked with youth teams, Freund a more established team and for longer.

Other than that, we're down to personality traits which can be learned/faked/misinterpreted etc. By any empirical measure Freund is as good, if not a better choice.

And he's had much better haircuts than Timmeh could ever dream of.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think the two come out fairly similarly in a comparison. For many it seems that having been a footballer ticks a lot of boxes (not for me). Having been a Spurs footballer ticks even more (I can see the romanticism there if it's a player we actually liked). Both have worked with youth teams, Freund a more established team and for longer.

Other than that, we're down to personality traits which can be learned/faked/misinterpreted etc. By any empirical measure Freund is as good, if not a better choice.

And he's had much better haircuts than Timmeh could ever dream of.

(I agree with the rest of your post)

Part of my point is that for us your "other than that" is really the rest of the discussion. But for Levy and Baldini (and whoever else in the squad or backroom staff that have been involved) it's not. Baldini has worked with some top managers, I assume he's talked football with Sherwood once or twice. Levy and Baldini will know about how Sherwood has been doing on the training ground for the development squad, at the matches for the same squad and as part of the transfer committee. They will have similar knowledge about Freund. Whereas our knowledge of Freund and Sherwood stops where you say it stops, for Levy and Baldini that's not the case at all.

Of course it might be the Levy has just overruled Baldini on this seeing as Baldini is fairly new in the job and our options were limited. But come the summer I can almost guarantee that he will be involved. After the Santini debacle Levy let Arnesen hire Jol, he later let Comolli hire Ramos. When he's put managers in charge of teams he's let them do their things to some extent at least. People complain that Levy doesn't know enough about football (although perhaps paradoxically he probably knows more than the majority of fans), but when he's putting "footballing men" in charge of our clubs he generally seems to listen to them. And right now the footballing man closest to the top of the pyramid at Spurs is Franco Baldini, a man I think deserves at least some trust?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

(I agree with the rest of your post)

Part of my point is that for us your "other than that" is really the rest of the discussion. But for Levy and Baldini (and whoever else in the squad or backroom staff that have been involved) it's not. Baldini has worked with some top managers, I assume he's talked football with Sherwood once or twice. Levy and Baldini will know about how Sherwood has been doing on the training ground for the development squad, at the matches for the same squad and as part of the transfer committee. They will have similar knowledge about Freund. Whereas our knowledge of Freund and Sherwood stops where you say it stops, for Levy and Baldini that's not the case at all.

Of course it might be the Levy has just overruled Baldini on this seeing as Baldini is fairly new in the job and our options were limited. But come the summer I can almost guarantee that he will be involved. After the Santini debacle Levy let Arnesen hire Jol, he later let Comolli hire Ramos. When he's put managers in charge of teams he's let them do their things to some extent at least. People complain that Levy doesn't know enough about football (although perhaps paradoxically he probably knows more than the majority of fans), but when he's putting "footballing men" in charge of our clubs he generally seems to listen to them. And right now the footballing man closest to the top of the pyramid at Spurs is Franco Baldini, a man I think deserves at least some trust?

They're certainly better placed to judge than we are, but as I said - it's all subjective. It's easy to pull the wool over the eyes of someone when talking to them - especially if they want to believe what you're telling them.

I don't think Baldini has been around long enough to make a real judgement on Timmeh - Levy has, but he's given us all good reason to doubt his judgement.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

LVG with Sherwood as his assistant?????:lol: would be mad but most of Levys managerial decisions are mad so i guess why would he change now. If LVG is the choice i think its best he bring in his own backroom staff and IF Sherwood wants to learn from LVG there is nothing stopping him from watching training sessions. Freund??? I just dont see him as future PL managerial material, so i dont see the point in grooming him for such a role once LVG leaves. Something about about him screams assistant, not top dog

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

They're certainly better placed to judge than we are, but as I said - it's all subjective. It's easy to pull the wool over the eyes of someone when talking to them - especially if they want to believe what you're telling them.

I don't think Baldini has been around long enough to make a real judgement on Timmeh - Levy has, but he's given us all good reason to doubt his judgement.

Exactly (although I would include the word "much" in there).

I suppose there is good reason to doubt Levy's judgement in this regard, but wouldn't that be the same for any appointment then? I don't see how that's an argument against Sherwood.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

They're certainly better placed to judge than we are, but as I said - it's all subjective. It's easy to pull the wool over the eyes of someone when talking to them - especially if they want to believe what you're telling them.

I don't think Baldini has been around long enough to make a real judgement on Timmeh - Levy has, but he's given us all good reason to doubt his judgement.

Would it change your view on Sherwood if in time it turned out that he was Baldini's choice?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Would it change your view on Sherwood if in time it turned out that he was Baldini's choice?

If Baldini still thinks he's the man for the job after more time with him then yes, I'd defer to his (clearly more expert) opinion.

I'd still think Timmeh's a **** though, but that's another discussion.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that one of the things that may have counted against Freund is that he is meant to be very much a joker on the training ground. Maybe they thought that he would struggle to step up and command respect because of this.