Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Mr_B]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

big first loss for sherwood, lets see how his team bounces back, first real test for his young stewardship

 

[shaney]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Levy is not an idiot

Thats open to debate !

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It takes balls to do what Sherwood did and personally I agree with him. Bar a left back I cannot see any actual need for new signings, any team in the World could be improved, just look at Emirates Marketing Project, they are tearing up the Premier League yet if they were offered Messi or Ronaldo would they turn either player down despite how well they're doing? Would you also want to tell me that Real Madrid couldn't improve on their strikers? No team is perfect on paper and sometimes that is what makes them good as Ramsey used to say, don't pick your best 11 players, pick your best team.

Just don't get the obsession on here with certain players' previous mistakes and how they need to be replaced ala Rose, you should just look at what they can do not what they can't whilst letting them try to learn from their mistakes and improve which surely would be better than buying and starting all over again....

Our focus should be to gel these players, after all we have enough of them and enough talent within them to finish 4th.

No, but they don't really have to worry about how much these players would cost and if it doesn't work out, pfft, go buy someone else.

 

[Roy1983]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lets see where we are in May eh????

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lets see where we are in May eh????

Indeed. Have you heard anything about the mood at the club or how things have changed since Sherwood came in?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

But, if you concede 35 shots, you're usually going to concede goals. One in every 10 games might come off for you but, if you're going to keep taking punches, then you're going to end up on the floor."

Worrying lack of use of logic there. Had we employed a screen or at least tried to match their midfield then we would have reduced the chance of allowing shots. You reduce the chance of allowing shots then you probably reduce the number of shots taken.

You reduce the shots taken, then almost always you will reduce the number of goals against.

So, correct me if I'm wrong:
Act like you're willing to change things but talk in an aloof manner and you're stubborn. Stubbornly stick to a worrying false belief about how football works, but talk like everyone's your mate and you're not?

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Worrying lack of use of logic there. Had we employed a screen or at least tried to match their midfield then we would have reduced the chance of allowing shots. You reduce the chance of allowing shots then you probably reduce the number of shots taken.

You reduce the shots taken, then almost always you will reduce the number of goals against.

So, correct me if I'm wrong:
Act like you're willing to change things but talk in an aloof manner and you're stubborn. Stubbornly stick to a worrying false belief about how football works, but talk like everyone's your mate and you're not?

I think that you are being a little unfair. We did play 4-2-3-1 on Wednesday, it is just that Sherwood prefers his central midfielders to be a little more attacking than thge previous manager. He would hardly be the first manager to think that attack is the best form of defence.

I think that the real problem in midfield on Wednesday was the experience and balance of the options that he had available not necessarily how he set them up.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that you are being a little unfair. We did play 4-2-3-1 on Wednesday, it is just that Sherwood prefers his central midfielders to be a little more attacking than thge previous manager. He would hardly be the first manager to think that attack is the best form of defence.

I think that the real problem in midfield on Wednesday was the experience and balance of the options that he had available not necessarily how he set them up.

Agreed.

With Sandro and Vertonghen out and City in fine form we were always going to struggle I think.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that you are being a little unfair. We did play 4-2-3-1 on Wednesday, it is just that Sherwood prefers his central midfielders to be a little more attacking than thge previous manager. He would hardly be the first manager to think that attack is the best form of defence.

I think that the real problem in midfield on Wednesday was the experience and balance of the options that he had available not necessarily how he set them up.

I think we always would have lost, but our chances of losing would have been drastically reduced had we at least marked the man in the hole.

I like attack being the best form of defence, but there are some things that go with it that which are missing - such as an intensive pressing all over the pitch, an attempt to keep the ball rather than 'get it up there quickly', an understanding of who covers whom when off marauding up the pitch, etc.

 

[harr1984]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Agreed.

With Sandro and Vertonghen out and City in fine form we were always going to struggle I think.

Exactly. Anyone's first XI will struggle against City, with two of your best players out? Ridiculously tough. Factor in decisions not going our way, in all likelihood we would have lost by the odd goal or maybe stolen a point. They're on a different level to anything else in our league....

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Worrying lack of use of logic there. Had we employed a screen or at least tried to match their midfield then we would have reduced the chance of allowing shots. You reduce the chance of allowing shots then you probably reduce the number of shots taken.

You reduce the shots taken, then almost always you will reduce the number of goals against.

So, correct me if I'm wrong:
Act like you're willing to change things but talk in an aloof manner and you're stubborn. Stubbornly stick to a worrying false belief about how football works, but talk like everyone's your mate and you're not?

Er, I thought he was talking about the West Ham tactic of parking the bus at Chelsea and how if you do that then yes once in a while you will stop the opposition scoring, but usually if you concede 35 shots on goal you will concede at least one goal.

Quite apart from this not being the Tottenham way, I would not like to see my team set up like this.

Of course it is a truism that if you allow less shots, you are likely to concede less goals.

However, TS was not talking about a screen in front of the defense as far as I am aware and for you to connect the two is simply misleading. Emirates Marketing Project don't play with a defensive midfielder in the traditional sense. Jordinho and Yaya Toure are more akin to Paulinho and Dembele/Bentelab and I for one would much prefer to model our teams play on this than Wet Spam! Or would you prefer us to park the bus and play with all 11 men behind the ball - even at home?

A balance needs to be found between defense and attack. It was interesting to hear Pelligrini say he won the game by being secure at the back. Yet, this was achieved WITHOUT a defensive sitter who only screens the back four.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It takes balls to do what Sherwood did and personally I agree with him. Bar a left back I cannot see any actual need for new signings, any team in the World could be improved, just look at Emirates Marketing Project, they are tearing up the Premier League yet if they were offered Messi or Ronaldo would they turn either player down despite how well they're doing? Would you also want to tell me that Real Madrid couldn't improve on their strikers? No team is perfect on paper and sometimes that is what makes them good as Ramsey used to say, don't pick your best 11 players, pick your best team.

Just don't get the obsession on here with certain players' previous mistakes and how they need to be replaced ala Rose, you should just look at what they can do not what they can't whilst letting them try to learn from their mistakes and improve which surely would be better than buying and starting all over again....

Our focus should be to gel these players, after all we have enough of them and enough talent within them to finish 4th.

I agree with your post... although I do think we should have got in an LB or (if possible) recalled BAE. By not having a back up, youre effectively putting yourself in a position that can weaken your central defence if Rose is out.

Its funny, people berate TS for not being the future or a long term visionary etc yet the way he has portrayed him self and the way he wants to bring in the youth rather than splash out milions on 33 yr olds is something that contradicts this view that others have of him.

I have just read the Transfer rumours, and wow, so many angry that we didnt get anyone. Im sure people were bored yesterday or something because this is the first window I can remember where I couldnt give a **** if we got in anyone or not. We have players who havent played who will feel like new signings.

 

[squidseye]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Agreed.

With Sandro and Vertonghen out and City in fine form we were always going to struggle I think.

And yet we had Capoue, who plays Sandro's role very well, and who imo has better offensive passing than Sandro who wasn't played.


Sure, attack is the best form of defence. That's exactly what City did, and we didn't get anywhere near them with their intense pressing and higher quality all around the pitch.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

And yet we had Capoue, who plays Sandro's role very well, and who imo has better offensive passing than Sandro who wasn't played.


Sure, attack is the best form of defence. That's exactly what City did, and we didn't get anywhere near them with their intense pressing and higher quality all around the pitch.

Not quite sure what your point is.

Sandro and Vertonghen are top class players. Missing them is always going to make things more difficult.

Sherwood went for the skill and passing of Bentaleb, I still think that was a decent decision although Bentaleb didn't have the best of games. He didn't trust us to just contain City with a more defensive setup and I think he might be right. Had he gone more defensive and we had lost I'm sure the criticism would have been just as intense, although worded slightly differently.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Er, I thought he was talking about the West Ham tactic of parking the bus at Chelsea and how if you do that then yes once in a while you will stop the opposition scoring, but usually if you concede 35 shots on goal you will concede at least one goal.

Quite apart from this not being the Tottenham way, I would not like to see my team set up like this.

Of course it is a truism that if you allow less shots, you are likely to concede less goals.

However, TS was not talking about a screen in front of the defense as far as I am aware and for you to connect the two is simply misleading. Emirates Marketing Project don't play with a defensive midfielder in the traditional sense. Jordinho and Yaya Toure are more akin to Paulinho and Dembele/Bentelab and I for one would much prefer to model our teams play on this than Wet Spam! Or would you prefer us to park the bus and play with all 11 men behind the ball - even at home?

A balance needs to be found between defense and attack. It was interesting to hear Pelligrini say he won the game by being secure at the back. Yet, this was achieved WITHOUT a defensive sitter who only screens the back four.

I thought he was making a comparison - you can defend or attack but if you concede shots you'll concede goals?

Maybe I read it wrong, bit that's how it can across to me.

As for City, they didn't need to screen the defence because we only had the ball where they wanted us to have the ball - look at the pass maps from our best 15mins that I posted, we have the ball but only managed to keep passing it along the halfway line.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

it's not just the personnel, it's more the way the lines were setup, everyone should have been deeper IMO, most of the damage was done by players finding space and time behind the mf

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I thought he was making a comparison - you can defend or attack but if you concede shots you'll concede goals?

Maybe I read it wrong, bit that's how it can across to me.

As for City, they didn't need to screen the defence because we only had the ball where they wanted us to have the ball - look at the pass maps from our best 15mins that I posted, we have the ball but only managed to keep passing it along the halfway line.

I thought Lennon, Eriksen and to some extent Sigurdsson let us down in that game.

Bentaleb also probably had his worst game so far in short Spurs career.

What I'm taking from a description like yours though is just a reinforcement of the idea that we needed good technical players on the pitch to improve us in that aspect. Not that we shouldn't even try...

 

[NorwegianSpursFan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's going to be interesting seeing how Tim copes with the spanking we got by City. Will he perservere with the same players, or is he going to make alot of changes. In a way he got a free break here with so many "big" players coming back from injury. This way he can change 3/4 players without having to justif it in any other way than returning from injury.

One thing I have been wondering about is how he will treat Paulinho. Will he be dropped aswell, or is he the player who will push Bentaleb out of the side. If he's going 4-4-2 There simply isn't room for him. The one player that I think Tim will put straight back in is Sandro, the big question is who will he pair him up with.

I think the City game showed that Bentaleb simply isn't ready to be our first choice cm. Sure, anyone would struggle against a inform city side, but there were several times he just looked like a boy amongst men, most notably in the first half. Anyway, I am really curious to see what lineup and formation he goes with today, I think it will tell alot about Tims plans for the rest of the season.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

it's not just the personnel, it's more the way the lines were setup, everyone should have been deeper IMO, most of the damage was done by players finding space and time behind the mf

This is true, although it should be noted that City are the best in the league and among the best in the world at finding that space and creating chances like that. They regularly create chances against teams that I think are more solid than we've been in recent months (under Sherwood and AVB) when we've tried to sit back deep.

And worth noting that actually most of the damage was done after we went down to 10 men.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's going to be interesting seeing how Tim copes with the spanking we got by City. Will he perservere with the same players, or is he going to make alot of changes. In a way he got a free break here with so many "big" players coming back from injury. This way he can change 3/4 players without having to justif it in any other way than returning from injury.

One thing I have been wondering about is how he will treat Paulinho. Will he be dropped aswell, or is he the player who will push Bentaleb out of the side. If he's going 4-4-2 There simply isn't room for him. The one player that I think Tim will put straight back in is Sandro, the big question is who will he pair him up with.

I think the City game showed that Bentaleb simply isn't ready to be our first choice cm. Sure, anyone would struggle against a inform city side, but there were several times he just looked like a boy amongst men, most notably in the first half. Anyway, I am really curious to see what lineup and formation he goes with today, I think it will tell alot about Tims plans for the rest of the season.

I know I defend Bentaleb more than most, but if this is true then based on the City game we also learned that Eriksen simply isn't ready to be our first choice number 10. He too looked like a boy amongst men, most notably in the first half.

Today, like just about every game we'll play for the rest of the season, will be a completely different type of game to the one we played against Emirates Marketing Project. I don't think much of what happened against City can be extrapolated into being a general truth.