The new, new manager thread - Pt 3

[Dr Rosenrosen]

Neil Lennon stepping down at Celtic for unstated next landing pad......

 

[indianspur]

its Friday.........last day before everyone hops off to the Caribbean (according to Gutter)

 

[90sSpursBook]

How do you think the situation will actually pan out?

My guess is that by the end of next week there will be Sky Sports Breaking News:

Sky Sports Sources understands Tottenham in advanced talks with Southampton manager Mauricio Pochettino

Then Southampton will issue a statement claiming that they have had no contact with any club regarding their manager and that any approaches are unwelcome. Poch's agent will then reveal that he is unhappy at Southampton's lack of ambition and is considering his options.

Meanwhile there will be an exclusive on the official Spurs website........Daws previews World Cup and New Supporters Club in New Zealand.

4 days later Pochettino signs a new contract at Southampton for a further 3 years and states that there is no club he would rather be managing in England.

Spurs website exclusive: Sandro thanks fans

Frank De Boer signs new deal at Ajax

4th July: David Moyes appointed new Spurs manager

 

[Armchair Expert]

i dunno - we seemed to do ok under Redknapp in CL with an approach which seemed to be to attack first defend second. though obviously showed we could defend when needed to away and home to Milan.

if they approach the CL as an experience rather than a pressing need to go as far as possible then i think it won't matter much either way

Against Milan we parked the bus for two legs and had about one chance on the counter which saw us win the tie.

Actually, from some of the posts on here I presume people didn't celebrate the victory over Milan, probably turned off after 20 minutes as we weren't playing glory glory football.

Some people would rather come 8th than win the league playing that football, so I suppose rather than knock AC Milan out of the champions league to set up a quarter final with Real Madrid, they would rather have lost 8-3 over two legs playing gung ho football. FACT?

 

[NickTB]

How do you think the situation will actually pan out?

My guess is that by the end of next week there will be Sky Sports Breaking News:

Sky Sports Sources understands Tottenham in advanced talks with Southampton manager Mauricio Pochettino

Then Southampton will issue a statement claiming that they have had no contact with any club regarding their manager and that any approaches are unwelcome. Poch's agent will then reveal that he is unhappy at Southampton's lack of ambition and is considering his options.

Meanwhile there will be an exclusive on the official Spurs website........Daws previews World Cup and New Supporters Club in New Zealand.

4 days later Pochettino signs a new contract at Southampton for a further 3 years and states that there is no club he would rather be managing in England.

Spurs website exclusive: Sandro thanks fans

Frank De Boer signs new deal at Ajax

4th July: David Moyes appointed new Spurs manager

This

 

[Baleforce]

5th July: David Moyes sentenced to 6 months in prison for assault. Spurs appoint Phil Neville as care taker.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Against Milan we parked the bus for two legs and had about one chance on the counter which saw us win the tie.

Actually, from some of the posts on here I presume people didn't celebrate the victory over Milan, probably turned off after 20 minutes as we weren't playing glory glory football.

Some people would rather come 8th than win the league playing that football, so I suppose rather than knock AC Milan out of the champions league to set up a quarter final with Real Madrid, they would rather have lost 8-3 over two legs playing gung ho football. FACT?

Milan was the one point in his time with us where Redknapp actually looked like a serious manager, rather than someone winging it with great players. It was incredibly impressive.

 

[DaveT316]

Is it just me, or isn't it obvious Levy is hedging his bets and waiting for the Champions League final to be done and dusted? He's obviously waiting to see if Ancelotti is available. If he's not sacked, he'll go all out for Poch.

That's my reading of it, anyway.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Milan was the one point in his time with us where Redknapp actually looked like a serious manager, rather than someone winging it with great players. It was incredibly impressive.

It was I agree. I was also shocked that Redknapp managed to pull off two performances of that ilk.

 

[Hootnow]

So none of the victories against Arsenal or Liverpool or Chelsea, any of the CL run other than those 2 games, none of the other performances under him that saw us finish 4th/ 5th/ 4th?

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

So none of the victories against Arsenal or Liverpool or Chelsea, any of the CL run other than those 2 games, none of the other performances under him that saw us finish 4th/ 5th/ 4th?

He out foxed Wenger on a few occasions to, something that the 'Redknapp is a dinosaur' phalanx conveniently forget. He was no Mourinho but he was absolutely nowhere near as clueless tactically as he is often made out to be on here.

 

[Hootnow]

Also the only manager to beat Hiddink domestically, doing so in the tactically clueless manner of a well deserved 1-0 win.

 

[Shropshire Yid]

Without doubt Levy is waiting to see if Madrid sack Carlo! He is a business man, he wants the best options for the best price. What would you want £3m potch or a free Carlo??

Wait till all the cards are played.......

I have a feeling Zidane maybe looking at the Madrid job and being groomed.

 

[Baleforce]

So none of the victories against Arsenal or Liverpool or Chelsea, any of the CL run other than those 2 games, none of the other performances under him that saw us finish 4th/ 5th/ 4th?

yeah, but Milan had Zlatan, that makes it more impressive

 

[Gutter Boy]

Is it just me, or isn't it obvious Levy is hedging his bets and waiting for the Champions League final to be done and dusted? He's obviously waiting to see if Ancelotti is available. If he's not sacked, he'll go all out for Poch.

That's my reading of it, anyway.

Absolutely no chance.

If there was an inkling of a chance of Ancelotti being available this summer, he'd still be in line for United. Even if the very unexpected happens now, he'll go to Monaco.

I think Simeone is actually more plausible than Ancelotti, but that isn't going to happen either.

No - I'm pretty confident our negotiations with Poch and Soton are just going through due process. We've still got another 10 days before we hit the same timeframe as it took United to negotiate with van Gaal (and he was a free agent). I think it will happen much sooner though.

 

[DaveT316]

Absolutely no chance.

If there was an inkling of a chance of Ancelotti being available this summer, he'd still be in line for United. Even if the very unexpected happens now, he'll go to Monaco.

I think Simeone is actually more plausible than Ancelotti, but that isn't going to happen either.

No - I'm pretty confident our negotiations with Poch and Soton are just going through due process. We've still got another 10 days before we hit the same timeframe as it took United to negotiate with van Gaal (and he was a free agent). I think it will happen much sooner though.

We'll see. It's possible Poch is taking longer than I'd expect, but as you've pointed out, we've been in for Ancelotti before, so why wouldn't we be this time? I know all the reasons you've explained why he's not right, I just don't think Levy would agree with you or think that sensibly!

 

[Lemonade Money]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/may/22/carlo-ancelotti-real-madrid-champions-league-florentino-perez

'Pérez has actually been questioning Ancelotti for some time, private disquiet which has inevitably found its way back to the manager.'

'Yet it was notable that, in the wake of the Copa del Rey success – secured courtesy of a stunning winner from Gareth Bale, the president’s marquee signing – he had heaped plaudits on Real’s match-winners, even Barça’s players and fans, without once mentioning Ancelotti.'

'Yet he, more than anyone, will know any personal desire to remain at the Bernabéu is essentially irrelevant. His future at the club will be determined by the whims of one notoriously impatient powerbroker. Potential suitors, whether back home in Italy or even north London, will be watching events with interest.'

 

[braineclipse]

Against Milan we parked the bus for two legs and had about one chance on the counter which saw us win the tie.

Actually, from some of the posts on here I presume people didn't celebrate the victory over Milan, probably turned off after 20 minutes as we weren't playing glory glory football.

Some people would rather come 8th than win the league playing that football, so I suppose rather than knock AC Milan out of the champions league to set up a quarter final with Real Madrid, they would rather have lost 8-3 over two legs playing gung ho football. FACT?

But those Milan games weren't typical for Redknapp's stay with us. Remember Ferguson even called us the most entertaining team in the league (although I often felt that most of Ferguson's compliments to other teams and managers were backhanded).

Ferguson's United also had some really resilient displays in big matches where they primarily defended, but often they also played very entertaining attacking football. I think the same can be said about a lot of top managers, and managers with an attacking philosophy.

The quest for "glory glory football" doesn't imply that we have to play gung ho every match. There's a time for cynicism in that, there's a time for defensive solidity and organization, there's always a time for defending as a unit (imo).

There's a difference between that and what I see more as a "always caution first" approach taken by for example Benitez and Mourinho, and arguably someone like Hodgson and this season AVB with us. (Not looking to start a debate on specific coaches here, apart from those that realistically we could get. If you disagree about Benitez, that's worth debating, if we disagree about AVB or Hodgson let's just agree to disagree).

I think there's a real potential benefit long term to a more attacking approach (in terms of results). There has to be a balance between attacking and defending, but for me a counter attacking focused strategy has a glass ceiling. I also think there can be a more indirect benefit to a manager and the long term stability at a club by having a more attacking philosophy as a coach/manager that's seen as boring will get less time when the downswings hit thus there's an increased risk of a new transitional period because of a sacking.

To bring it to Benitez specifically, his best finish with Liverpool came in 08/09 when they finished 2nd, only 4 points behind United. Taking a slightly more detailed look at it Liverpool were the best team in the league against the top half. 5 points ahead of United, with only 1 loss, 7 draws and 10 wins (9, 5, 3 for United). What "lost them the league" was being the third best team against the bottom half, 9 points behind United. 4 draws and one loss compared to United's one draw and no losses. This kind of crushing of the bottom half has been typical for United in their good seasons under Ferguson, at least in recent years. It's something that comes from a well developed attacking plan put in place over time (along with very good players and confidence), but I also think it stems from having an attacking intent instead of a more defensive and counter attacking intent overall. The plan is to go out and beat the other lot, yes sometimes good teams get the better of you where perhaps you could have hung on to get a good result, but as you do that over time the team develops in a way that the defensive strategy doesn't allow you to.

I think this is also concordant with Benitez's record as more of a cup/European cups manager than league success manager whilst at Liverpool at least. In those big games where not losing is the most important thing his approach worked really well, but he struggled to develop that into a truly top title challenging side in the league year in year out. (Despite having a core of players in Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres that was truly outstanding.)

That to me at least is a decent reasoning for choosing a more attacking manager, not just a "this is glory glory" point of view, but also from a more practical viewpoint. I'm not saying this makes Benitez a poor manager, nor am I saying that this means we shouldn't go for Benitez or a Benitez type manager. All I'm saying is that I think there's a rational viewpoint there.

Absolutely no chance.

If there was an inkling of a chance of Ancelotti being available this summer, he'd still be in line for United. Even if the very unexpected happens now, he'll go to Monaco.

I think Simeone is actually more plausible than Ancelotti, but that isn't going to happen either.

No - I'm pretty confident our negotiations with Poch and Soton are just going through due process. We've still got another 10 days before we hit the same timeframe as it took United to negotiate with van Gaal (and he was a free agent). I think it will happen much sooner though.

This makes a lot of sense to me. Would love to be wrong and see us get Ancelotty, but I don't think it's happening.

I think people in general underestimate how much time stuff like this and transfers can take, how many details there are to get in place.

Say Poch is our target. Not only is there his interview then contract and the fee to Southampton to negotiate. There's also the same for his coaches/assistants, fees in the millions of pounds category, not lose change. Then there's the issue of us potentially going for Southampton players and Southampton most likely wanting a clause where we can't go for them this summer. Then of course there will be agents involved and clubs and agents will be trying to get the best deal possible, perhaps changing terms some way into negotiations etc.

 

[harr1984]

He out foxed Wenger on a few occasions to, something that the 'Redknapp is a dinosaur' phalanx conveniently forget. He was no Mourinho but he was absolutely nowhere near as clueless tactically as he is often made out to be on here.

Its a myth that Redknapp didnt have any tactical nouse. It was simply that he kept things simple and didnt try and be too clever like many foreign counterparts...

 

[Kingdawson]

Milan was the one point in his time with us where Redknapp actually looked like a serious manager, rather than someone winging it with great players. It was incredibly impressive.

you genuinely believe that in his 4 year stint here...that was the only game that showed he was a serious manager? Ok GB (Milo I will quote posts like this all day long).