The midweek/weekend games thread

[braineclipse]

braineclipse, truly wish I still shared your idealistic view of football but unfortunately those days of naive innocence are long gone.

The rubbish exposed in Serie A and Turkey in recent years is merely the brim of the brick barrell. There are entire leagues rigged in Eastern Europe not games. Betting companies run most of the game these days and it will never change unless a revolution takes place and we start from scratch with players payed peanuts without greedy qunts agents and most importanly - no more betting

I'm sorry, I will not have a dichotomy made between my view as some naive idealistic innocent view and some other more intelligent side.

I wasn't surprised to hear about the cheating scandals in the Serie A and Turkey. After the OLM scandal back in the days it would have been naive to believe that everything is lily white and pure in football. But that doesn't mean that everything is fixed all the time! And when your very own conspiracy theory was proven to fail, but you just jump to another retro-fitted conspiracy theory without missing a beat I will comment on it.

I actually find it quite naive to think that UEFA actually are in control, not only of themselves, but the individuals actually performing the draws to the extent that they would risk their very valuable brand name by continuously rigging every single important draw just to set up a couple of fixtures they want, or promote a club that doesn't seem to need promoting.

Betting companies make money regardless of who meet, betting companies make more money when there are big name, high profile games, but I see no evidence of draws being rigged in that direction. If the betting companies were in such control, then why the rigged Eastern European leagues? The people rigging matches are most often individuals or organizations that scam the betting companies by rigging the outcome of matches. The last thing betting companies want are rigged results! They make tons of money on fair matches where no one knows the outcome. Actually betting companies are putting quite a bit of resources into discovering match fixing incidents.

 

[Libero]

Here is a crazy idea - how about 'Champions' only. Not 7 teams from a single league just because of superior GDP figures.

Ive advocated this for a few years. I would allow maybe the top 2 from 3-4 of the best performing countries but after that its Europa League action for 3rd - 5th. The first year might be a bit rough for clubs but you watch the sponsers and money fly in for the Europa when you have the likes of Liverpool, Inter, Arsenal, Tottenham, Juventus, Schalke etc in it year after year because they havent finished in the top 2 in their respective league.

 

[ArcspacE]

The last thing betting companies want are rigged results!

Is that a serious comment?

 

[braineclipse]

Is that a serious comment?

Very much so, and I even explained why right after.

Why would the betting companies want rigged results? Please explain.

Betting companies with well placed odds will make money on fair games regardless of the outcome, especially in the long run. If the outcome is rigged, individual players and organizations who are aware of the rigging might exploit that knowledge and make the games unprofitable for the betting companies.

 

[ArcspacE]

In a very simplistic way

If I knew the outcome of a specific game - placing a large bet on that result is guaranteed profit

 

[braineclipse]

In a very simplistic way

If I knew the outcome of a specific game - placing a large bet on that result is guaranteed profit

Betting companies are forced to place bets on all results of games, regardless of what they know. And they are forced to do so at reasonably competitive rates to not look silly. Knowledge of the outcome would help them, but the risk is massive. If found out they could go out of business and lose what is for most of them a very profitable business. And there would also be the risk that others would know, and that they would exploit their knowledge at the loss of the betting company (again, forced to place/accept bets on all results of the games).

 

[ArcspacE]

It's obviously people intinmitely linked with this information

These are proven facts and constant investigations into betting syndicate are being carried out all the time

Sorry but this is similar to debating evolution with a religious person. Let's leave it at that

 

[braineclipse]

It's obviously people intinmitely linked with this information

These are proven facts and constant investigations into betting syndicate are being carried out all the time

Sorry but this is similar to debating evolution with a religious person. Let's leave it at that

Betting syndicates aren't betting companies!

 

[Modric THFC]

In a very simplistic way

If I knew the outcome of a specific game - placing a large bet on that result is guaranteed profit

Put it this way would you bet on wrestling?
No? Why? Because you know its rigged.
If football was rigged then you wouldn't bet on it unless you were in on it.
So instead of millions of people betting on football every game you'd have a few people only betting and winning the whole time.
Football being rigged would destroy any profit for the bookmakers.

 

[indianspur]

I'm willing to bet Barcelona will draw Apoel

are you willing to admit that maybe now Uefa favour Real instead, tinkle easy route to the final?

 

[Modric THFC]

ArcspacE give it a fudging rest mate, you may be fudged off with the toss fest over Barcelona but quite frankly the way you are going on about conspiracies and brick is more annoying. You don't like Barca, we get it. Chill the fudge out, you prefer Real yet look, they got the easy Apoel draw. Whatever man.

More importantly for Real they have avoided playing Barcelona over two legs. Real always lose to them over two legs. The only time Real have come out on top versus them recently was in the one off Copa Del Rey final last year. Its a cracking draw for Real. They also have the advantage in both the quarters and semis of playing the away leg first.

 

[indianspur]

Barca with home advantage in the second leg?????

Shocker

come on, this anti barca tirade is getting a bit tiresome. Im not their biggest fan either, but at least i appreciate their qualities.

I want Real to win it this year, they are the exceptional team in europe this season and a one off match against Barca on a neutral venue gives them a great cahnce of victory

 

[zin]

More importantly for Real they have avoided playing Barcelona over two legs. Real always lose to them over two legs. The only time Real have come out on top versus them recently was in the one off Copa Del Rey final last year. Its a cracking draw for Real. They also have the advantage in both the quarters and semis of playing the away leg first.

Real with home advantage in the second leg?????

Shocker

 

[Jordinho]

I'm sure there's some French, Portuguese and Cypriot supporters out there who are feeling quite excited much in the same way I'm sure you did when Spurs reached the same stage last season. Just because you have no interest in the last 8 doesn't mean others don't!

What are they excited about though? They have very little chance of getting to the final and they are some of the best teams in their countries. Getting to play Barcelona shouldn't be considered an achievement in itself. Teams like Chelsea, Bayern, Benfica, Real and Marseille shouldn't even be there.

I'd rather have a proper CHAMPIONS league and an improved Europa League. That would give a much better variety in matches. Having 7 or 8 teams from the top leagues in Europe just because they are better than the best team in most of the smaller leagues isn't right. A lot of teams don't bother with the Europa League anyway as it doesn't provide any significant income and gets in the way of league performances.

 

[Hootnow]

Some of the views in this thread makes the posters sound like macarons.

Arc, your anti-Barcelona bias is hilarious. First, you are insistent that they will get APOEL. Then they get maybe the 3rd or 4th best team. No worries, the conspiracy is now that they have the second leg at home. They will have probably Chelsea after that, one of the very few teams that has ravaged Guardiola's Barcelona. No worries, now the conspiracy is that UEFA want Real and Barcelona in the final, because they didn't meet before then. But they met in the semis last season.

No conspiracy about your sweethearts getting the easiest of the draws I see...

And then to compare your conspiracy theory that UEFA and betting syndicates control all football at the top level Illuminati style to Evolution, a scientific fact...is quite unbelievable.

Jordinho, I'm not quite sure what you want? APOEL wouldn't have gotten to the final if it was just a champions format anyway. I'm in favour of reducing the number of teams in the CL but to say what are they excited about? I assume you were sitting at home in a strop last season at our participation in a competition called the Champions league, when we finished fourth? And I also assume you didn't get excited as we played Inter, AC Milan and Real Madrid because we had no chance of reaching the final?

 

[Rorschach]

What are they excited about though? They have very little chance of getting to the final and they are some of the best teams in their countries. Getting to play Barcelona shouldn't be considered an achievement in itself. Teams like Chelsea, Bayern, Benfica, Real and Marseille shouldn't even be there.

I'd rather have a proper CHAMPIONS league and an improved Europa League. That would give a much better variety in matches. Having 7 or 8 teams from the top leagues in Europe just because they are better than the best team in most of the smaller leagues isn't right. A lot of teams don't bother with the Europa League anyway as it doesn't provide any significant income and gets in the way of league performances.

This will never happen unfortunately. The money involved is just too big now and the big clubs would be pushing for a breakaway Europa Super league if this were to happen.

 

[ArcspacE]

And then to compare your conspiracy theory that UEFA and betting syndicates control all football at the top level Illuminati style to Evolution, a scientific fact...is quite unbelievable.

Nothing like throwing some insults around, hey big man

Obvisouly not every single game is rigged but there are a fair bit those which are. At every level sadly and the future doesn't look too bright. If you genuinely believe every game you watch out there is a genuine representation of competitivness - then we cannot take this debate any further.

 

[spurspinter1]

Barcelona - AC Milan
APOEL - Benfica
Real Madrid - Marseille
Bayern M - Chelsea

Can you please make it clear that this post was just what you reckoned? Saw this earlier and thought you'd heard the draw and then I had to log off, been walking around thinking Chelsea have got Munich so was confused when I heard they'd got Benfica....

*Shakes fist angrily

 

[Hootnow]

Nothing like throwing some insults around, hey big man

Obvisouly not every single game is rigged but there are a fair bit those which are. At every level sadly and the future doesn't look to bright. If you genuinely believe every game you watch out there is a genuine representation of competitivness - then we cannot take this debate any further.

I've said some of the views aired make the posters airing those views sound like macarons. I haven't mentioned any names and frankly on gg, that's like a big hug.

I'm not of the opinion that every game in football is 100% above board. Frankly, with the money sloshing around in the game, I'd be more surprised if there was none of this going on at all. But to suggest that this is actually the norm and that football is rigged from top to bottom, is frankly an outrageous accusation. And I would have to ask the question, if someone were to actually believe that, why would they continue watching the sport? If I genuinely believed that forces were conspiricing against my team or against the sport in general, I would very quickly lose my interest. What is the point in supporting my club if its fate is not in the 25 players, and the manager, chairman and support staff, but in the hands of a small group of old men in Switzerland and maths experts in Asia.

 

[ArcspacE]

Never said it rigged from top to bottom but sadly it does affect even our team occasionally although to a lesser degree due to our smaller 'scale' in the bigger scheme of things. We've been on the wrong end of major decisions countless of times. Mendesgate the most prominent.

I can reference some books for anyone willing to read more on the subject and if not to expand their perspective - at least enrich your general knowledge

Jenkins' 'Foul' is a MUST to start with

Followed by the Serie A and Turkey findings