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The Goon Thread
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
What NWND said
Hernandez isnt a lone striker, isnt a hold up player and isnt, it seems, any more suited to our team than Defoe who so many want to see shot of.
Despite being a good player. I actually quite like him, I just dont see it working
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
RVP carried them massively last year, they have lost a talisman and guaranteed match winner. Big step back
They have signed some very talented players, so have potentially taken a step (or even 2) forward - but at this point that is yet to be realised. IMO...
I
indianspur
Guest
Hernandez is much more in the poacher style like Falcao is. Defoe in fact is not a poacher, he rarely scores scrappy goals, is rarely in the right place at the right time Lineker style, doesnt make those darting runs in the box and gets ahead of his marker to swoop the ball into the net. Hernandez and Falcao are just like that, and considering Falcao worked very well for AVB at Porto, i think Hernandez could be just as effective.
Few questions
- What is our system?
- What is Hernadez' optimum system (he has featured extensively in number of formation for Utd - quite successfully in fact)
- Would it be reasonable to suggest our system should accommodate our strongest players and be suited around those?
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In addition to that - Defoe is a very different player to Hernadez, imv - he utlisises the 18 yard box extrememly well, always looking for clever runs in the channels, works all 4 defenders along the line, and has a great awarness for goal opportunities. He is also quicker than Defoe and appears to be comfortable with both feet
Defoe is a player who has flourished on through-balls played to his feat where he can outrun the defender and blast a shot away. His first touch, aerial ability, link-up play, hold up, etc. are nowhere near as good as his pace and right foot. And although he's made a reasonable PL career out of that - beyond these aspects he has little technique and ability to be truly considered a 'poacher'.
Defoe is a player who has flourished on through-balls played to his feat where he can outrun the defender and blast a shot away. His first touch, aerial ability, link-up play, hold up, etc. are nowhere near as good as his pace and right foot. And although he's made a reasonable PL career out of that - beyond these aspects he has little technique and ability to be truly considered a 'poacher'.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
At this point would appear to be a 451/433
He doesnt seem to me to be able to play a physical central figure, as so often required by 451/433. If we are to have a runner from midfield and wide players attacking goal (as 451/433 so often dictates) then I dont think he is the man to act as fulcrum within that. I think he is best when playing off of someone else, such as when Rooney is behind him.
Of course it would. Would it be reasonable to suggest we buy players not suited to our preferred system* and shoe horn everything around them?
*Judging by AVBs previous insistance on the system and our use of it in pre season
There is no way we can call the system before a few competitive games have been played, imv. AVB needs to asses the players and work accordingly as opposed to shoe-horning square pegs into round holes. Perhaps one day he would be able to build all the puzzle pieces but this transfer window seems doubtful.
Also - I strongly believe if a good player became available (VdV) - we cannot afford to be picky and the manager (and one rated so highly by many) should be able to accommodate a quality unit into our side.
But beyond that - I really think he can flourish in front of comeone of VdV's quality or even Sigurdsson's perceived ability. Look at Falcao at his Porto for example - a clever runner who 'worked' the created opportunities to a great effeciency.
Also - I strongly believe if a good player became available (VdV) - we cannot afford to be picky and the manager (and one rated so highly by many) should be able to accommodate a quality unit into our side.
But beyond that - I really think he can flourish in front of comeone of VdV's quality or even Sigurdsson's perceived ability. Look at Falcao at his Porto for example - a clever runner who 'worked' the created opportunities to a great effeciency.
Park Lane James
Andy Sinton
That is a very good point. let's not forget how long we've been looking to sign a bloody striker. Hernandez has lead the line for United a number of times - with Rooney in behind. Who is to say that we can't do the same by pushing VDV up further to supply him? The lad is switched on - rarely stops moving, makes intelligent runs behind the defensive line and scares defenders with his pace.
Let's not forget that someone with a similar stature lead the line for AVB at Porto - Falcao.
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
Winterburn spouting his usual biased rubbish on SSN...
He is a major tool
He is a major tool
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
AVB has consistently employed a 451/433. At two different clubs and now in pre season. I dont think its a huge stretch to promote the idea thats how we are going to move ahead.
Otherwise, what is the point in working on it all summer?
I do not think, as it stands, it is a case of square pegs/round holes AT ALL bar Defoe. And we have a well publicised negotiations with City regards Adebayor, a perfect fit to the system.
Instead of "making do" with a view of moving toward his system in future, it appears AVB believes he can move straight to his system.
I think we should be picky, actually. I think we should get players to suit the side and suit what we require - the only opportunistic buys to make like that which you propose should be for players far better than Hernandez.
It is possible that Hernandez could do the job. I dont think its ideal though, and I dont think Hernandez is so good its a deal we couldnt refuse. I think, for example, Adebayor would be much much better in the role in our team.
Otherwise, what is the point in working on it all summer?
I do not think, as it stands, it is a case of square pegs/round holes AT ALL bar Defoe. And we have a well publicised negotiations with City regards Adebayor, a perfect fit to the system.
Instead of "making do" with a view of moving toward his system in future, it appears AVB believes he can move straight to his system.
I think we should be picky, actually. I think we should get players to suit the side and suit what we require - the only opportunistic buys to make like that which you propose should be for players far better than Hernandez.
It is possible that Hernandez could do the job. I dont think its ideal though, and I dont think Hernandez is so good its a deal we couldnt refuse. I think, for example, Adebayor would be much much better in the role in our team.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
So you think selling RVP has strengthened them? I don''t see your logic there.
I disagree on many levels - if Hernandez was available it's a not brainer, imv. And if Hernandez was the only striker available this summer (hypothetically) - we would be able to make AVB's perceived system work with ease. Target men do not always have to be of Ade's ilk - again, look at Falcao for example.
Look at VdV at the time - was he even 'needed' for our 4-4-2 which saw us gain 4th the season prior. In fact - some still think he's more of a burden anyway!
We are not a G14 club (for better or worse) - if a good deal becomes availible, I believe we should be jumping because quality players can improve any side and good managers can intergrate those players into their systems. And right now any striker who would improve our team should be conisdered, without exception, imv
Look at VdV at the time - was he even 'needed' for our 4-4-2 which saw us gain 4th the season prior. In fact - some still think he's more of a burden anyway!
We are not a G14 club (for better or worse) - if a good deal becomes availible, I believe we should be jumping because quality players can improve any side and good managers can intergrate those players into their systems. And right now any striker who would improve our team should be conisdered, without exception, imv
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
Is this thread about RVP leaving or a tactics / formation thread ??
We had only 1 striker available for pre-season and he's not even a 'senior' per se. I would have been surprised if we played anything else, tbh
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
you're right. i dont think i see the logic in that statement you just made either mate. makes no sense at all that if ou just go into the season an only sell your best player and do nothing else how you have strengthened
Essex Yid
Bobby Zamora
Piers Morgan’s pledge to throw himself off pier was main motivation for move, reveals Van Persie
Robin Van Persie has revealed that his move from Arsenal to Manchester United was not motivated by money, but by Piers Morgan’s pledge that he would throw himself off Santa Monica pier in lead weights.
The 29 year-old striker revealed he had been undecided on whether to sign for Manchester United, but Morgan’s pledge to kill himself was too good an offer to turn down.
“Leaving Arsenal was the most difficult decision I have ever had to make,” he said.
“Well, it was up until Piers Morgan said he would kill himself if I left.”
“Then it became something of a no-brainer.”
Van Persie to Manchester United
The deal, which is worth £24m to Arsenal, and a Piers Morgan-free world to everyone else, was completed yesterday, and the world’s eyes are now focused on Santa Monica pier for the arrival of the former News of the World and Daily Mirror editor.
“There’s no sign of him yet, but I’m prepared to wait for as long as necessary,” said one onlooker.
“This is probably the first football transfer in history where everyone – fans of both sides, neutrals, and people who know nothing about football – are happy.”
Arsenal fans, who had originally been dead set against Van Persie leaving the club, are hailing the deal as “great business”.
“Every player has his price,” Revealed 26 year-old Gooner Stephen McLaughlin.
“No club in the World can turn down an offer that amounts to Piers Morgan killing himself.”
“We shouldn’t stop here,” he added.
“I think if we sell Thomas Vermaelen and Alex Song we could also wipe out Spandau Ballet once and for all.”
.
Read more: http://newsthump.com/2012/08/16/pie...on-for-move-reveals-van-persie/#ixzz23iAREqln
Robin Van Persie has revealed that his move from Arsenal to Manchester United was not motivated by money, but by Piers Morgan’s pledge that he would throw himself off Santa Monica pier in lead weights.
The 29 year-old striker revealed he had been undecided on whether to sign for Manchester United, but Morgan’s pledge to kill himself was too good an offer to turn down.
“Leaving Arsenal was the most difficult decision I have ever had to make,” he said.
“Well, it was up until Piers Morgan said he would kill himself if I left.”
“Then it became something of a no-brainer.”
Van Persie to Manchester United
The deal, which is worth £24m to Arsenal, and a Piers Morgan-free world to everyone else, was completed yesterday, and the world’s eyes are now focused on Santa Monica pier for the arrival of the former News of the World and Daily Mirror editor.
“There’s no sign of him yet, but I’m prepared to wait for as long as necessary,” said one onlooker.
“This is probably the first football transfer in history where everyone – fans of both sides, neutrals, and people who know nothing about football – are happy.”
Arsenal fans, who had originally been dead set against Van Persie leaving the club, are hailing the deal as “great business”.
“Every player has his price,” Revealed 26 year-old Gooner Stephen McLaughlin.
“No club in the World can turn down an offer that amounts to Piers Morgan killing himself.”
“We shouldn’t stop here,” he added.
“I think if we sell Thomas Vermaelen and Alex Song we could also wipe out Spandau Ballet once and for all.”
.
Read more: http://newsthump.com/2012/08/16/pie...on-for-move-reveals-van-persie/#ixzz23iAREqln
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
That doesnt surprise me at all, you usually do.
So you are moving the goal posts on this situation now to "if Hernandez was the only player available"? In which case, yes, no brainer - he is better than Harry Kane
I understand perfectly well he could work in that formation. I understood it previously and agreed, no need to keep labouring the point.
My point was that I BELIEVE Ade to be better suited. Not only is he physically more of a presence but he has proven to be able to hold the ball up, assist goals and improve our forward play in general. These are attributes proven to make a successful lone striker in this league, and more importantly he has already proven his worth to us specifically.
VDV at the time represented a significant boost in quality as well as CL nouse. he was a real coup at the time. No matter how much your rose tinted Utd glasses show, Hernandez just doesnt represent that same kind of deal to us.
If we are sat here at 11.50 on deadline day then yes, I agree with you completely. At this point though? No. I dont agree at all. We have two weeks to find the perfect man for the job, we dont have only one option and we do have time to get it right. It is not a no brainer to compromise the team shape just to grab a (very good) player just because we can.